Xcal 2 tuning?
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,480
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From: Nashville, TN
Originally Posted by ONELOWF
I don't think that is correct.
Customers supply the datlogging.
Mike writes your tunes, and then you datalog and send the results to him for any modifications he thinks he needs to make to enhance your original tunes, within 60 days of original tunes for no charge.
Seems like deal to me.
Customers supply the datlogging.
Mike writes your tunes, and then you datalog and send the results to him for any modifications he thinks he needs to make to enhance your original tunes, within 60 days of original tunes for no charge.
Seems like deal to me.
I think I am clear on that now, but thanks!
for sure
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 149
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From: Tomball
Originally Posted by rawzon
he gives a tune, you datalog and then he takes that info and fine tunes it.. you cant just tune every truck perfectly that easily especially the 04 and up f150's.. i did a lot of reading before i picked mike, and i cant wait to get mine.
just curious can you give a link to where someone modified a troyer tune that was finalized by mike and they still modified it to get better results?.. i havent read that anywhere on here.
just curious can you give a link to where someone modified a troyer tune that was finalized by mike and they still modified it to get better results?.. i havent read that anywhere on here.
I don't know if the tune was "finalized"
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 358
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From: Florida Panhandle
Originally Posted by pat williamson
i assume datalogging reqires several trips to the dyno...@ $100 a pop?
By the way, we wrote some new datalogging docs on 10-28-05, that make it easier to follow and get the info we need - we also provide an alternative method of getting us the A/F data for non-supercharged vehicles that, while not a dead-nuts accurate as a wideband A/F, is close enough for many of these vehicles that we cna go ahead and make the tweaks to it. If you'd like to have a copy, give us a quick call or shoot us an email & we'll be happy to email out those new datalogging docs, if you like.
Good luck!
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#29 Report Bad Post
Old 10-29-2005, 02:09 PM"
If you bought an Xcal2, you can do all you dataloging for free (if you do it yourself) and return the results and get the tunes dialed in to "your truck"
What could be better than that. Sure you could tweek a few things with your Xcal2 on a dyno but if you check, things like timing and major F/A changes are locked, and for a good reason, Tuning these newer 3V motors should only be done by an expert.
Yes I am sure someone could tune a few more horses out of these trucks, but that proves nothing, for everything you gain you give something up too. Mike tunes for the best all around drivability and performance. In the end it comes down to personal preference. I love my tunes, I don't leave home without them!
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: North Alabama
i made more power at the lose of probably around 2-3 mpg at wot. which sucks anway. and the way i did it isnt a good way because the xcal cant tune air/fuel by rpm on the user end. it just changes the whole power band which i dont like but ic an understand why its that way. i gained like 6 hp and about 7 tq. by making my a/f 1.5 points richer and the curve isnt better. it just had a high peak. the toyer had higher numbers at 3-4k range and was about dead even at 4.8 and the toyer tune stayed stronger after that. im not syaing its the best tune in the world. i didnt datalog (which maybe will give me 5 hp 10 tq. be cause my a/f was at 13.2 anyway)
but anyway my honest opinion. im not that pleased with the results so far i was expecting to have a hp gain like the numbers miuke posted about marc's truck at dyno day. and didnt even come close. btw my numbers on toyer standard tune was 227.95 / 288.35 . thats with airaid intake, flowmaster, and poweraid tbs. i was just expecting to be more in the 250's/ 320's
but anyway my honest opinion. im not that pleased with the results so far i was expecting to have a hp gain like the numbers miuke posted about marc's truck at dyno day. and didnt even come close. btw my numbers on toyer standard tune was 227.95 / 288.35 . thats with airaid intake, flowmaster, and poweraid tbs. i was just expecting to be more in the 250's/ 320's
Last edited by Justins FX4; Nov 6, 2005 at 10:45 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 621
Likes: 1
From: SoCal & Lake Havasu, AZ
Since I have a laptop, and I can rent Dyno time at $125 an hour, my cost to do all data logging that is necessary will be $250 spread over 3 months. That is 3 tanks of gas, and well worth the peace of mind knowing the tune is "spot on" as Mike likes to say. And that is on a Highly modified engine (supercharged). I just put a little away each week. Not all trucks will require that much Data Logging, but the choice is ours. Nowhere has Mike ever claimed to be the cheap solution to truck tuning.
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Justins FX4,
While I appreciate the support that those who actually understand the process have given, I want to make something clear.
None of you vehicle owners can actually make any proper changes to my tuning with your XCalibrator 2's and get more safe & sustainable power with a proper A/F curve. No, you CANNOT "fix" your A/F ratios - don't even try to claim that, because you CANNOT DO THAT - PERIOD.
The XCal 2 only allows gross adjustments to the entire A/F curve by commanding more fuel across the board - you cannot even remove any fuel, you can only ADD fuel in gross amounts across the board, EVERYWHERE, by the exact same amount!!! Anyone that knows anything about tuning knows you cannot do that and claim you have made your A/F's "better" or "fixed" them - that is utter BS.
You CANNOT write a new MAF transfer function with an XCal 2 or any other such tuning device, which is the very first thing that must be done before you can finalize any other aspect of the custom tuning.
And you didn't even remotely do that - in fact, you didn't datalog anything properly - you just roiled up to a dyno, threw more fuel across the board by the same percentage and then came here to claim you did a better job and moaned all about how you should have made so much more power - what utter nonsense. All of that would have been avoided had you simply bothered to read and follow your instructions, son.
Try reading and actually following your documentation, and stop thinking you are going to make the same kind of power with the Airaid and that ridiculous throttle body spacer (which only hurt your power) that these trucks make with the AF1 and PROPER datalogging and tuning.
You also apparently have no understanding whatsoever that no 2 dynos will ever give the same numbers - in short, you have made serious flaws in numerous areas, and THAT is why you have the results yo have - not because your tuning was not done correctly by us, and any claim to the contrary is dead wrong, pure and simple.
Until you use the BEST parts, and do the datalogging exactly as per our instructions and provide us with that data within a 60 day time frame of us doing the original tuning, and using the same dyno at all the same operating & atmospheric conditions, you are NEVER going to come close to getting the best results like Marc's & numerous other vehicles do on our dyno days - it's just that simple. No offense my friend, but you have an awful lot to learn about all of this. At this point, the only thing you really have any right to be disappointed with is staring right back at you in the mirror, my friend.
Do it right or don't do it at all. Don't think you can fail to datalog and have proper tuning - don;t think yo can use anything other than the very best parts and get the kind of results that we do, as that is *never* going to happen.
Plain and simple, use the best parts and follow your instructions - *then* you have a shot at making the kind of power levels that some other trucks do.
Last - never think that every truck, even with the exact same parts, run on the exact same dyno, and tuned the same way are always going to deliver the exact same power numbers, as that too, will never happen.
For example, our 2004 is a very strong truck - with NOTHING more than my tuning, it made 247 HP and 350 lbs. ft at the rear wheels - that was on the stock intake, the stock factory exhaust, no other modifications whatsoever other than my tuning. There is an easy 20+ HP difference fro the strongest to the weakest 5.4 3V's,and that too, is something that has always been true about mass produced vehicles, and is something so basic that anyone with any experience modifying vehicles also knows.
I hope this basic info helps you to see what you got the results you did, and that you cannot use anything less than the best parts, or take the numerous shortcuts yo have by not datalogging or properly tuning - it just doesn't work.
If you ever decide you want to read and actually follow our instructions properly, we'll look at your data and make tuning changes as are appropriate - but if you want to have a shot at making the kind of power Marc's truck does, I suggest you use the AF1 intake kit as well, as you just aren't going to get there with the Airaid. It's not a bad intake kit, but it's at least 5-8 HP down from what the AF1 makes consistently across the entire rpm range, and on some vehicles it can be as much as 10 HP down at the power peak compared to the AF1.
Good luck!
While I appreciate the support that those who actually understand the process have given, I want to make something clear.
None of you vehicle owners can actually make any proper changes to my tuning with your XCalibrator 2's and get more safe & sustainable power with a proper A/F curve. No, you CANNOT "fix" your A/F ratios - don't even try to claim that, because you CANNOT DO THAT - PERIOD.
The XCal 2 only allows gross adjustments to the entire A/F curve by commanding more fuel across the board - you cannot even remove any fuel, you can only ADD fuel in gross amounts across the board, EVERYWHERE, by the exact same amount!!! Anyone that knows anything about tuning knows you cannot do that and claim you have made your A/F's "better" or "fixed" them - that is utter BS.
You CANNOT write a new MAF transfer function with an XCal 2 or any other such tuning device, which is the very first thing that must be done before you can finalize any other aspect of the custom tuning.
And you didn't even remotely do that - in fact, you didn't datalog anything properly - you just roiled up to a dyno, threw more fuel across the board by the same percentage and then came here to claim you did a better job and moaned all about how you should have made so much more power - what utter nonsense. All of that would have been avoided had you simply bothered to read and follow your instructions, son.
Try reading and actually following your documentation, and stop thinking you are going to make the same kind of power with the Airaid and that ridiculous throttle body spacer (which only hurt your power) that these trucks make with the AF1 and PROPER datalogging and tuning.
You also apparently have no understanding whatsoever that no 2 dynos will ever give the same numbers - in short, you have made serious flaws in numerous areas, and THAT is why you have the results yo have - not because your tuning was not done correctly by us, and any claim to the contrary is dead wrong, pure and simple.
Until you use the BEST parts, and do the datalogging exactly as per our instructions and provide us with that data within a 60 day time frame of us doing the original tuning, and using the same dyno at all the same operating & atmospheric conditions, you are NEVER going to come close to getting the best results like Marc's & numerous other vehicles do on our dyno days - it's just that simple. No offense my friend, but you have an awful lot to learn about all of this. At this point, the only thing you really have any right to be disappointed with is staring right back at you in the mirror, my friend.
Do it right or don't do it at all. Don't think you can fail to datalog and have proper tuning - don;t think yo can use anything other than the very best parts and get the kind of results that we do, as that is *never* going to happen.
Plain and simple, use the best parts and follow your instructions - *then* you have a shot at making the kind of power levels that some other trucks do.
Last - never think that every truck, even with the exact same parts, run on the exact same dyno, and tuned the same way are always going to deliver the exact same power numbers, as that too, will never happen.
For example, our 2004 is a very strong truck - with NOTHING more than my tuning, it made 247 HP and 350 lbs. ft at the rear wheels - that was on the stock intake, the stock factory exhaust, no other modifications whatsoever other than my tuning. There is an easy 20+ HP difference fro the strongest to the weakest 5.4 3V's,and that too, is something that has always been true about mass produced vehicles, and is something so basic that anyone with any experience modifying vehicles also knows.
I hope this basic info helps you to see what you got the results you did, and that you cannot use anything less than the best parts, or take the numerous shortcuts yo have by not datalogging or properly tuning - it just doesn't work.
If you ever decide you want to read and actually follow our instructions properly, we'll look at your data and make tuning changes as are appropriate - but if you want to have a shot at making the kind of power Marc's truck does, I suggest you use the AF1 intake kit as well, as you just aren't going to get there with the Airaid. It's not a bad intake kit, but it's at least 5-8 HP down from what the AF1 makes consistently across the entire rpm range, and on some vehicles it can be as much as 10 HP down at the power peak compared to the AF1.
Good luck!
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Pat Williamson,
Apparently it seems that you may have some significant misunderstandings of this process of custom tuning & datalogging, etc. I would suggest that if you want to get *accurate* information, either read some of the numerous posts from those who have tried to explain this correctly several times in this thread (and other threads), or simply give us a call.
It is a complete fallacy that you have to spend hundreds of dollars to datalog - that is completely false, end of story.
Anyone claiming otherwise is simply painting an inaccurate picture, or refuses to even attempt to read & follow our very simple instructions. the actual truth is, anyone that can use a PC to get on the Internet and who can also drive a vehicle can easily do the datalogging as per our instructions - it's just that simple. Heck, we have 12 year old kids doing it, and if a 12 year old can do it, any adult certainly can.
The XCalibrator 2 can datalog everything we need - yes, we would like to see some actual wideband A/F ratios, which costs you all of maybe $75 for 3 pulls on a dyno - but we can work with the O2 sensor voltages as well for those who do not have a chassis dyno within a couple hundred miles of their location, just as we have clearly stated many times here since 10-28-05 - so you might want to read the appropriate posts a bit more thoroughly before making judgments/pronouncements that are not correct, and get the right information. Use your own judgment based on *accurate* information and then decide for yourself, rather than ignoring posts from those who know what they are talking about and only picking up on a couple who want to moan how hard it is to do something that is actually quite simple & fun.
Every one who places an order with us for our custom tuning gets very easy-to-follow instructions right away - and we are happy to go over them with anyone after they have actually read them thoroughly. They are written so clearly that basically anyone who can understand English can easily follow them, so this whole process of datalogging is far simpler than a couple of people here seem to want to paint it.
If you would like to go over this in more detail, use the SEARCH feature here to look up & read any of our posts dated 10-28-05 or later regarding datalogging, or simply give us a call at our number listed below - you will quickly find out that it is a very simple & easy thing to datalog, and does NOT cost a significant amount of money.
I hope that brief info helps you a bit Pat, & please let us know if we can be of assistance.
Best of luck with your truck!
Apparently it seems that you may have some significant misunderstandings of this process of custom tuning & datalogging, etc. I would suggest that if you want to get *accurate* information, either read some of the numerous posts from those who have tried to explain this correctly several times in this thread (and other threads), or simply give us a call.
It is a complete fallacy that you have to spend hundreds of dollars to datalog - that is completely false, end of story.
Anyone claiming otherwise is simply painting an inaccurate picture, or refuses to even attempt to read & follow our very simple instructions. the actual truth is, anyone that can use a PC to get on the Internet and who can also drive a vehicle can easily do the datalogging as per our instructions - it's just that simple. Heck, we have 12 year old kids doing it, and if a 12 year old can do it, any adult certainly can.
The XCalibrator 2 can datalog everything we need - yes, we would like to see some actual wideband A/F ratios, which costs you all of maybe $75 for 3 pulls on a dyno - but we can work with the O2 sensor voltages as well for those who do not have a chassis dyno within a couple hundred miles of their location, just as we have clearly stated many times here since 10-28-05 - so you might want to read the appropriate posts a bit more thoroughly before making judgments/pronouncements that are not correct, and get the right information. Use your own judgment based on *accurate* information and then decide for yourself, rather than ignoring posts from those who know what they are talking about and only picking up on a couple who want to moan how hard it is to do something that is actually quite simple & fun.
Every one who places an order with us for our custom tuning gets very easy-to-follow instructions right away - and we are happy to go over them with anyone after they have actually read them thoroughly. They are written so clearly that basically anyone who can understand English can easily follow them, so this whole process of datalogging is far simpler than a couple of people here seem to want to paint it.
If you would like to go over this in more detail, use the SEARCH feature here to look up & read any of our posts dated 10-28-05 or later regarding datalogging, or simply give us a call at our number listed below - you will quickly find out that it is a very simple & easy thing to datalog, and does NOT cost a significant amount of money.
I hope that brief info helps you a bit Pat, & please let us know if we can be of assistance.
Best of luck with your truck!
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
From: Lincoln, NE
I just love these Troyer bashing posts. Same type of people who think the moon landing was a hoax. 
Don't be mad or not accept that someone knows more than you, c'mon.
After reading this site as others, and talking back and forth on the phone to numerous outlets, by far from my experiences, Troyer Performance has the total package. Do you guys honestly think that I want to pay more money for products claimed by TP to be the best? Look around, compare, etc. Hell, I waited weeks before becoming a member here after reading and searching info and ohter people like to post 3 non informative posts in a row!
Contradictory points are great for debates but if the are not valid, please dont post (kthnx)
Don't be mad or not accept that someone knows more than you, c'mon.
After reading this site as others, and talking back and forth on the phone to numerous outlets, by far from my experiences, Troyer Performance has the total package. Do you guys honestly think that I want to pay more money for products claimed by TP to be the best? Look around, compare, etc. Hell, I waited weeks before becoming a member here after reading and searching info and ohter people like to post 3 non informative posts in a row!
Contradictory points are great for debates but if the are not valid, please dont post (kthnx)
Last edited by beowulf; Nov 12, 2005 at 06:10 PM.