Yep,
I've been waiting three long days for MT to get back to the office and read this thread. I wonder if he has had his BP checked lately...

 

If not he may want to now

 

I think many people here are completely missing the point. Let’s see if I can make this any easier.

As Mike stated there is a way to have tunes for two completely different vehicles with one device. At least that’s what I believe he stated where he mentions one tune for a Lightning and then another for a regular F150 using one device.

Ok, so here goes, once again. Nobody, at least that I can see, is asking can the XCal2 program multiple vehicles at the SAME time but rather can the XCal2 program multiple vehicles one at a time?

If I have three vehicles, a Lightning, a Ranger and a Focus could I have a tuner, such as Mike, sell me 1 tune for each vehicle, total of 3 tunes which the XCal2 is capable of holding?

Second, can I use the XCal2 to program my Lightning, say for the summer, and then return my Lightning BACK to stock? Once returned back to stock could I then use ONE piece of hardware to then load a custom tune into the Focus? Again, being as clear as I possible can, ONLY one vehicle at a time could have a custom program.

If that is not possible it has NOTHING to do with a business spending money on R&D, it has NOTHING to do with “nonsense” and has everything to do with why can it not be done?

I can use my Dell X50V pocket PC with OBDII software on multiple vehicles, as a matter of fact any Ford vehicle and on top of that, since I have the enhanced Ford software, I can read the Ford specific OBDII sensors on any Ford vehicle I wish and I don’t even have to own them.

That will NOT in any way hinder Ford or the manufacture of the OBDII software since I can only plug it into ONE vehicle at a time.

That is the question being asked. There is no logical reason why an XCal2 can not be used in the same manner SO LONG as ONLY one vehicle can hold a custom tune at a time. If the XCal2 can not be used in that fashion it is because of some odd reason and has nothing to do with protecting an investment but rather seriously limiting the customer’s ability to use a simple piece of hardware. Also it has to do with profit. I have no problem with a business making a profit. I do have a problem when anyone tries to make me sound like I am trying to get something for nothing.

That is not the case. If you really have to buy separate XCal2’s for every vehicle you own it’s illogical even from a business standpoint.

The XCal2 is nothing more then a pocket PC that can communicate with the vehicle computer. No rocket science behind that, not much R&D behind that since it has been done for quit some time.

What is an R&D issue, and what does need to be protected is the actual development of the custom tunes not some plastic devices with a few microchips to simple communicate with the vehicle computer. That is all the XCal2 really is, an OBDII device that can write data to the vehicle computer I have one of those except at this time it can not write to the computer, it will in a year or so, but at the moment it will not. It is not locked to any vehicle.

 

geez yeah i bet you guys who cant think for yourselves have just been waiting for your hero to come in here with his long winded post that i bet you didnt even read becuz you got tired of it and it didnt even make much sense.

Saving the stock tune is not the reason, that is the way little trick they use to get you stuck in this loop, but to say this is the reason well you obviously dont know much about programming. Anyways no one is demanding anything for free just pointing out the way things are. I bet youre one of the microsoft haters too and want them to open source their OS.

 

exx, you need to save your little smart a$$ coments about Mike to yourself, there are more tactful ways to get your point across besides bashing someone else. Also if you are such a tuning expert then why aren't you in the business of tuning vehicles??????


01 If you want the answer on why you can't do it than call SCT, but no you cannot do it.

 

With all due respect since SCT makes no mention about the XCal2 being locked to one vehicle and then charging you extra to use it on another vehicle I see no reason to get a personal answer when they are quit capable of giving a public answer.

If the XCal2 is truly locked to just one vehicle you would think someone might mention that in advertising since most would not think that to be the issue.

I too have done much programming, specifically with National Instruments LabView. I use to, completely from the ground up, design and build automated test equipment for electrical motors. That included all the drawings (prints) design the interface boards (between the DAQ, data acquisition and my controllers such as relays etc) and then the actually software that brought it all together so an employee simply pressed a button and within seconds a test ran and gave the employee a pass or fail signal. It would then store all the data. To much to go into, but I have approx. 8 years experience with that.

So, I know how important it is to protect an investment. This has absolutely nothing to do with Mike. I think he is the best professional tuner out there and agree his tunes should be for one and only one vehicle.

My concern is with the simple piece of hardware that is the “interface” between the tune and the vehicle. The interface is pretty simple, it does nothing but communicate. It is the tune and the software on the flash programmer that are unique. I personally see no reason you could not use it on any vehicle you wish SO LONG as ONLY one vehicle could ever hold a tune.

Can it read OBDII codes on different Ford vehicles? I bet the answer is yes, and thus no reason it can not be used to tune any vehicle one wishes, one at a time with only one being allowed to have a tune.

I would add, I have read many companies, and I would imagine SCT, has brought things to the market “due to customer and/or the public’s feedback”.

If there is truly NO flash programmer that has the ability to tune multiple vehicles (again ONLY one at a time) how wonderful do you think it would be if the next version of the XCal2 was able to do that.

Personally I think it would be a hell of boost to advertisement, to state how other flash programmers “force” an owner to own multiple plastic communication boxes, while the XCal2 can program any vehicle an owner wishes to program “only one at a time”

It’s a thought anyway…

 

I know what you are trying to say and think it's a valid point, I was talking about exx bashing mike, he seems to do that alot. I'm not that computer savvy so I don't know why they do it. But thats the nature of the beast

 

lol man, alright alright im sorry, but let me pose this same question to you mike since youre so high and mighty, you dont have burned music cds? and the est of you arguing this youve never burned a copy of yer buddies windows or photoshop or whatever or never burned a music cd? if say yes then youre a hypocrite if you say no youre probably lying.

 

To be fair and more clear with my prior post in which I mentioned my Dell X50V with the OBDII software can be used on any Ford vehicle I should have mentioned that they too have a way to “lock” it so it can only be used on one vehicle.

Along with the software a connector, or in my case a connector designed to be used with Bluetooth, is needed to plug into the OBDII port of the vehicle.

That limits me or anyone else from simply letting someone copying the software and using it on another vehicle at the same time. So the OBDII plug is what “locks” it to one vehicle.

However, that OBDII plug can be used on any OBDII compliant vehicle, not just Ford.

 

Actually my computer doesn't have a cd burner, and no I do not burn cd's, every cd I own I have purchased from the store. And my computer is running on the same windows xp program that I Bought and paid for with it. And the music I have ripped on my MP3 player came from cd's I have bought. I'm not saying I am perfect, but just showing you not everyone sits in front of the computer all day trying to rip someone off. I actually prefer to spend my time doing stuff more valuable with my time.

 

And just like your scanner, our product does not lock the scanning portion to a single vehicle.

You can scan any compatible ford vehicle you own or have access to.

We have allowed the dealers to purchase the software, and create as many tunes as the want.

When you purchase a new vehicle, you can put your old one back to stock, and use it on another vehicle. If it was all about $$ as you say, that would not be possible, and it would simply be married to the vehicle for life. There are other tuning solutions out that, with this approach, which the customer has a 0% resale value, as unless he/she sells the truck and the tuning software together it is worthless.

There are various other reasons if you step back, and look at the big picture, with an understanding of how the whole custom tuning process works. What your asking for makes it easier for others to use the device other than it was intended. If your actually using it to custom tune your vehicle, it is not something that limits you from using it as intended, as this thread makes it appear.

As for the limited number of unlocking, I have never had a customer call about this becoming an issue in the past year I have been supporting the product. If your just changing tunes seasonaly, then you could have it sent in to be reset if you have exceeeded the number of unlocking. I just don't want somebody to get upset when they have to send the tuner back after flashing half of the members in their car club at a show, and finding out it won't unlock agian.

Also whenever the device is unlocked, it erases all of the custom tunes, ready to be programmed to work on the new vehicle, so you need to have the tunes or work with the tuner to get a tune for your new vehicle.

Ryan

 

I think that is the point that is getting some confused. IF someone, such as myself, had an XCal2 with 3 separate programs (one for Lightning, Ranger, and Focus) those tunes would be vehicle specific) therefore neither I nor anyone else could realistically program a bunch of other people’s vehicles, such as at a car show.

In any case, let’s say that the Focus tune could be used on any Focus, for arguments sake. Why would it be a problem if I programmed my Focus or any number of other Focus’s so long as only one could be tuned at one time? I think that might even be another avenue of sales. Say a buddy wants to know what a tune could do for him. I return my Focus back to stock and load the program in his Focus and he likes it. Naturally if I want to return the tune back to my Focus I would have to take it off his.

Of course one could say “Well if he wants to know take him for a ride in mine with the tune” That’s fair but maybe someone wants to know for sure what it is like on their own vehicle.

He decides he likes it and that it’s worth the $400 +/- for the XCal2 and a tune. A sale is made and nobody lost any money in the process.

As far as losing tunes why is it not possible to store the tunes on a personally computer or CD for safe keeping? That way if someone was to make a mistake and erase a tune they could recover it like you would with any other software for sell on the market.

I truly can understand a tune somehow being locked to a vehicle, perhaps by using the CVN ID (Calibration Verification ID) which is used to determine who installed the CAL ID (calibration ID) Emission testing centers, as well as dealers, use that information to determine if the vehicles program was reflashed privately or by a factory tool. So if there is already a method for emission testing centers and dealers to tell when a vehicle has been reflashed could the XCal2 not be able to utilize that information as well, as a lock of the tune?

So it is very possible to make it happen. Now if SCT has their reasons for not doing so then so be it and I can understand that but honestly, in my opinion, it doesn’t have to do with protecting an investment and/or R&D of a product.

That shows it is possible I just don’t understand why it can’t be done if an owner wishes to do that with a few vehicles he/she has in their possession (again, so long as ONLY one can have a tune). Perhaps one answer would be to sale two different versions, one that can only be used on one vehicle for $400 +/- and a second that can be used on up to ??? of vehicles, maybe $50 extra per vehicle (again, ONLY one could actually have a tune). The owner is already going to have to pay for each program they decide to purchase.

Again, just a thought…

 

There is no reason you can't store copies of your tunes on your PC, you just need to get them from your dealer in a XTR format.

Tunes cannot be removed from an Xcal2 for a couple of reasons, one is to protect a dealers custom tunes.

Your opinion of protecting the R&D isn't correct, that is exactly what it protects.

I will make a sugestion for the multiple vehicle idea to the hardware guys.

Ryan

 

Yay! Tell the sales guys to... a 1, 2 or 3 VIN version! Or if the engineers don't go for it, why not prod the sales/marketing department for a mini-volume discount for the folks that have multiple cars and want tuning on all of them all the time... You know, buy one x-cal get the 2nd ½ off or something silly like that. They could run a one-month special and get a feel for demand... I'm no marketing major, but it sounds good to me!

Your right, if it was 10K nobody would buy it, SCT wouldn't make jack for profits and they would fold. But priced at $500 MSRP (then potential extra costs for the tuning) it's within reach for many. Now the nice folks that do have an extra car, or a small business owner that has a small fleet of 3-5 trucks... BAM! That's a big hit to the pocket book. No tunes for him nor sales for SCT. Now if SCT was flexible and said "You know what, we'll let you tune your fleet with a single xcal for $999." Now it becomes reasonable for the guy... he buys, SCT makes some money, so does the tune shop and everyone is happy.

I think there could be a real need for such a pricing structure and it could actually benifit SCT and pump up revenue. Like I said, I'm no marketing major, but I would at least think they would look at it, crunch the numbers and see what happens.

 

Hi Guys,

Just here in the last few posts have we really made some progress in this thread.

Manufacturers *love* to have intelligent feedback & suggestions as we have had here in the last few posts - when they are put across like that, they are indeed welcome. That is one of the most important of many factors that go into the design of future products, upgrades of current products, etc. How you make your voice heard is with intelligent & polite discourse - suggestions born of genuine intelligence & concern for improving a product - not continual attacks & snide comments by those who don't even own the product & whose only real purpose is to sit hiding behind their monitors to type out nastiness.

So I want to thank you guys for the last few posts - the manner in how things are put forth makes all the difference in the world in how they are received.

Now if this thread can continue with intelligent and calm suggestions and reasonable discourse & discussion, then it can serve a real purpose - thanks for the efforts being put forth of late to make this something *positive*.