You can backup the stock file, using the XC2dump program, and your dealer can send you the tunes in XTR format to keep a backup. You can only write to the device for custom tunes, You can't remove custom tunes from a XCal2.

If you want to regularly have 2 different vehicles tuned, you need 2 pieces of hardware to do so. The devices can be unlocked to be used again, but this feature is designed to handle new vehicle purchases, not going back and forth between 2 different trucks.

Ryan

 

I pay for the custom tune for the specific vehicle - not the black box delivering the tune to the vehicle. For example, every company has to pay for each individual Microsoft software to put on each machine. It is not legal to put the same licensed software on multiple machines. I could spend $50 on three different used company computers, but legally, I would have to spend $600 for the Microsoft software for each computer. But this example doesn't take into account that Microsoft doesn't have to configure their software for each computer. A custom tune cannot be used on different cars, hence the tuner has to spend time configuring the tune to the specific vehicle.

So then the issue becomes what you are paying for the black box (and what that black box can do besides delivering tunes to your vehicle) and what you are paying for the tunes themselves.

 

Not correct, you do pay for the custom tunes but you are also paying for the black box that installs the tunes, somewhere around $400 - $450

Again not completely correct. Yes you pay for each individual copy of Microsoft software but you can put it on any machine you wish, so long as it is only on one machine at a time. If you had three different computers you could install a copy on any you wished, so long as only one had a copy at a time.

This depends on if you intend to use all three computers at the same time with one copy of the software. If you used all three at the same time and they all had a copy of the software then it would be illegal and I in no way advocate that.

Correct but since you could have three individual tunes of which you pay for each one individually what’s the difference if all three are for one vehicle or if you have one each for three vehicles. Three tunes are three tunes it don’t matter if there is a little difference between each for one vehicle or if they are completely different for three different vehicles.

You are paying for both, $400 - $450 for the black box, and approx. $50 or so for each tune. Since your paying for everything why not have one device that delivers the actual product (the tune) and then have the ability to have multiple tunes for all the vehicles you have. Again, as long as you can only have one vehicle with a custom tune at a time there is nothing illegal about it. An OBDII ScanTool can be used on multiple vehicles and it is nothing more then the “black box” that delivers the tunes to your vehicle. It’s simply a device that is connected to the OBDII port to communicate with the computer...

 

I think some of this is being compared to other things, and is becoming difficult to understand.

Let me list a few facts, to try to make it understandable.

With the purchase of an Xcalibrator, your buying both the hardware, and a flash license for that vehicle.

If you sell that vehicle and then purchase a new vehicle, you can unlock it, and program that vehicle. This is designed to handle new vehicle purchases and not a way to swap tunes between 2 vehicles you own at one time. This is not unlimited in the number of times it can be unlocked, but does not limit its operation in its intended purpose, to allow a customer to buy ford vehicle, after ford vehicle, and continue to use the same hardware.

Just like a single CD of microsoft, has the capability to be installed on hundreds of computers at the same time, it does not mean it is right, or would keep the company around to create new products.

If all it took was a tune file to be able to flash a tune to another vehicle you owned, every SCT dealer would buy 1 Xcalibrator for the shop and each "vehicle owned" would be every customer who came in for a dynotune. Flash and leave the shop. With the dyno operator, (who can create tunes for no charge, since they have the software already) So the logic of having the tune being the limiting factor is not valid. I have 1255 ZCF files, and 323 XTR files on my laptop right now. Using the arguments listed, would it be reasonable to say I should be able to flash 1500 vehicles with these tunes?

You guys can keep comparing to other situations, but it will not change how the products are designed to work or the pricing of them. For a typical customer and how they will use the product, it will work fine for your needs, the pricing and usage of the products are very reasonable, doing everything to bring the price of the tuning products as low as possible to allow more people to be able to afford them.

Ryan

 

what 01 xlt is saying is exactly correct and hes being conservative about the issue. these are tunes, very small files that are really not even the same thing, they are more like screensavers in which you are allowed to load it onto every computer in your house just so long as you are not making copies and redistributing it illegaly. The authorized sct dealer has the actual software to create a tune to load onto an xcal. Now this dealer should be able to put however many tunes the xcal will hold onto it, one for a mustang, one for a f150, and one for a expedition as it is very conceivable that someone may have such vehicles. im sure this is an issue that has been gone over and the nature and existance of software piracy and music sharing is probably the reason the "pricing structure" and what not is the way it is. I really do feel for the guy that has both an f150 and the expedition, i dont think he is a cheapskate or wanting everything for free, just wanting what is logical.

 

What we used to do with Mustang 5.0s is add a chip to the port on the side of the computer. When we wanted to change it we simply removed the chip and reprogrammed it. When you remove the chip from the computer it altomatically goes back to stock. Can this be done with the F150 and Expeditions?

If this is possible all you would need is a cheep programmer and some blank chips from the local electronics shop. Then you could buy custom tunes from Troyer and load them at will.

 

You can chip the pre 2004 body style vehicles.

in 2004+ the F150 went to CAN and no J3 port left on the pcm.

Ryan

 

All I know is, I have an Xcal2, and it will cost me $300 for 3 new tunes when I supercharge. The Xcal2 cost me around 200 after trade. I'd bet that any reputable tuner would discount an Xcal1 to somebody who already has an Xcal1 or 2, thereby making the cost of the box minor, compared to the cost of the custom tunes. I actually don't really know what the Xcal1 or 2 would cost without tunes in them.

 

Guess I'll chime in... I personally think the one-car at a time is BS. As a software vendor they should give you options. I can buy a site-license for my business and load as many copies of whatever as I want... why can't I buy a 'personal site license' for my x-cal? Instead of $499 I pay $599 and can use it on up to x VINs. It's not rocket science. Having to purchase 2 to use on 2 vehicles at the same time is BS and a rip-off. I have the equipment, and have to pay to get the tunes anyway.. so WTF? There are plenty of ways to ensure SCT doesn't get ripped off... they are just too lazy to do it or want the extra $$ the current structure brings in. More than likely both. Even if they just said "Ok, you can use it on 2 VINs" and didn't do any checks to ensure its the same owner of both VINs I'd bet doing so they would sell more units and more than cover any percieved 'losses' they would incure. I bet TONS of people would team up and split the cost... Thus resulting in higher volume and more $$ for SCT in the long run.

 

When you state that it is not "unlimited" in the number of times it can be unlocked, is that a misprint?

If not then your saying there is a limit to how many times it can be unlocked and moved to another vehicle? If that is the case how many times can it be unlocked and is that a "free" service?

If it is limited and it is not a free service to unlock it then something really don't add up...

Also, if it is limited (in unlocking from one vehicle) that should be stated in the advertisment as well as the limit and any cost associated with it...

 

Yeah, now theres a thought, but we are not even using scts software, only theyre hardware and whatever little OS is on the xcal. Only the authorized sct dealer is using their software in which he or she is then producing tunes to load onto the xcal. We should really be able to buy an xcal and have whoever put whatever tunes we want on it. No matter what if the thing is not somehow locked up in some dead end the issue of someone buying one xcal and sharing it with the whole world will probably keep them too scared to change it.

 

Ok, so wait... let's say I pony up the dough for the actual tuning software... THEN can save my stock program to reload at a later date... and save it to my desktop and move on to another vehicle? Or is SCT the ONLY folks on the planet that can unlock a xcal to use elsewhere? What a PITA...

 

In order to get the pricing low, the devices vin lock when a custom tune is installed. If you put it back to stock, any dealer can unlock it. If you do not put it back to stock, the device itself is of less value, because it is missing the tuning license, and just works as a datalogger, and code scanner. If your a dealer, pro-racer, sct employee, or end user, all of the devices work the same way.

I don't see these threads or complains about far more limited tuners, so I don't understand the problem that this thread is complaining about. It is industry standard to only allow 1 vehicle flashed at a time, from any company with a supported product.

Ours allows the ability to change vehicle types and continue to use on the new vehicle, something not offered with as much flexibility from any other company.

You can program tunes onto the device from any dealer who will send you a tune, so your not locked to only one dealer sending you tunes.

Ryan

 

Hey Guys,

Some of this is absolute nonsense, and is nothing more than trying to get something for nothing. I';ll bet not one of you complaining would ever march in to your employer and demand that they never pay you for YOUR work again - and if you aren't willing to do that, then don't expect anyone else to work for nothing.

Look, it's very simple and has already been explained to you - you want tuning on multiple vehicles, you need multiple tuning devices, as you have to be able to save the stock tuning file. End of discussion, and nothing is going to change that. Those who think it should be otherwise need to invest millions of dollars just as SCT & other companies have, and then let's see just how long you stay in business to support your customers doing business that way - that thinking also reveals how ;little some people know about running a business, having to make payroll every week, having to pay for buildings, insurance and oh - let's not forget - INVENT THE DARN PRODUCT IN THE FIRST PLACE, then manufacture it, and then create everything that is needed to make it work and support it - to say nothing of all the scratch R&D that has to be done every time any automaker makes any change - like each model year when the new vehicles come out. Yep, that's the ticket - you go invest millions of dollars to do all of that, then give it away free to everyone who has bought one so that they can use the same unit on every vehicle they ever have fro then on, and let's see just how long you remain in business to take their phone calls when they have a problem, or want to know how something works on their next new vehicle, etc. etc.

Good grief - a little common sense, please.

It has already been explained to you that SCT's XCalibrator 2, like no other company's product, WAS in fact made PRECISELY for you to be able to use it on multiple vehicles by making it repeat-programmable for your NEXT FoMoCo vehicle when you trade in your present vehicle, for a reasonable fee - since all new custom tunes will have to be done from scratch.

For those who want to be able to use one tuner on multiple vehicles but only on one at a time, then you can always purchase the Superchips Inc 1715 for the 1996-2003 trucks - for example, we have customers who own both a Lighting and a regular F-150, and they use it on the Lightning during the summer, and use it on the "regular" F-150 in the winter - mission accomplished. You can do the same thing with the 1714 tuner for the 2004's, and the 1745 tuner for the 2005's - and so on.

But when you want CUSTOM tuning, you will need to have a separate XCalibrator 2 for each vehicle OTHER than the scenario described earlier - where you trade your present vehicle in on a newer one, then in *that* case, the XCalibrator 2 was specifically made precisely so you can do just that - NOT have to buy a whole new tuner, but instead, simply pay a reasonable fee to have ALL NEW CUSTOM TUNES made from scratch for that next new vehicle.

That is eminently reasonable, and is the ONLY product you can do that with for true custom tuning!

Good grief - SCT goes out of their way to give you something that nobody else provides, and there always have to be a few who think they should give everything away for nothing, that you would pay only once and use it on every vehicle you ever own from then on, because they are supposed to do all the work of making all those new custom tunes for nothing - nonsense.

You buy one vehicle you GET one vehicle - if you want ANOTHER DIFFERENT vehicle, you PAY for it - you don't get it free - and that's $20K-$40K+ at a whack, not a measly few hundred $$$. Unless of course you'd like each tuner to cost say, $10,000 and then NOBODY but a few of us could ever afford to have true custom tuning for ANY vehicle.

A little perspective, gentlemen.

Peace out,

 

I've been waiting on that one ^^^