If you are soooo concerened about fuel mileage, buy an Echo or an EV-1.

I know it sucks not being able to have the fuel economy of an Echo, the luxury of a Bentley, the power of a Diablo and the towing capacity of a locomotive. Damn these compromises we have to make!

-->Greg

------------------
'00 F-150 ext.cab, 2wd, 5.4L
'99 GSX-R 750. Camelion paint and fully polished everything. Rated PG*.

 

Well why not stick my nose in here too?

I didn't even consider to ask Mike about mpg gains when we spoke about the chip because to me performance and MPG don't belong in the same conversation. You want more power and torque it's gonna cost you. My last 3 tanks of 76 ( So. Cal ) have shown an around town average of 10.5 MPG. Yes that sucks but I don't care.I tend to be heavy on the pedal because it's fun. I will try other staions to see what effect they have on my MPG.I have to believe that they will vary but before I claim anything I will do some testing for myself.I am however a believer in "you get what you pay for" and if your saving money on anything ultimatly your losing. IMO.
And Mike keep up the great attitude! And next time I see you in the desert I WILL by sand from you if you tell me I will get more power from it

------------------
2001 5.4 S Cab Lariat
ORP / 3.55 L/S
Class 3 Tow Package
Gibson SweptSide
K&N Gen 2 FIPK
Superchip FLIP CHIP
LoJack
Stock HU w/ Profile CL440 Amp
Infinity Kappas Front/Infinity Reference Rears. Sub is under construction!

 

Regardless of what rand has to say..
He still deserves to give his imput and opinion of the superchip.

------------------
97 F150 Longbed V8 4.6
K&N air filter
K&N FIPK tech MOD & removed elbow silencer
Tires: Yokohama 265/75/16 Geolander AT+
Hyper white xenon bulbs
Bedliner and raven shell
6 disc cd changer
Oil & filter used

Gasoline used

My Truck

 

Rand, I'm not really sure what your motive is here. Are you trying to tell us something? Are you trying to convince us that we've been ripped off? I haven't been here long enough to have seen all of your "complaining posts", yet I've seen a few.... too many.

You absolutely have the right to post. We all have that. Are you qualified to back your claims? Are we supposed to believe everything you say here just because you said it? Any of us can say anything. That doesn't mean we will be believed.
You talk about tone. You are using a jack-a$$ tone. You seem like you could be intelligent. Can't you find a way to get your point across with out being hostile?

I believe that most of us using the Superchip are quite pleased with it. For some, as a mere by-product of the spark advance etc., there is an increase in fuel mileage.

If you show some of your qualifications and learn how to present this issue in an intelligent way, you might get somewhere with it.
Just exercising my right to free speech.
Tom

 

Gee, thanks to Rand's insight and Mike's admission of the "diabolical secret" I think I'll just have to yank out my Flip Chip and toss it in the can........NOT!

Mike, I love my chip, and I love the service from you guys at Performance Products.

BTW, has Rand done an evaluation of the Si to Na ratio of the sand Mike is selling? Some sand is crappy. Gotta look out for that stuff. Just curious.

 

You are missing the point. I did this post in response to the person who recently posted results from 10 months of logging MPG.

I too did this a while back. I have NEVER seen anyone else post long term data WITH A GAIN! Have you?

You want to see my data? Its somewhere in f150online.com land. Do a search.

The point is, and has always been, SHOW US SOME LONG TERM DATA THAT PROVES THESE THEORIES ABOUT INCREASING MPG.

I saw an initial increase. Then it dropped!

What's so incredible about Mike T talking about it?

What's so incredible about a few people who see an initial increase?

The 2 people, myself included, who posted long term data and saw no gains contribute more VALUE to people looking for information.

The chip IN FACT boast and advertises this "INCREASE" in MPG. This "by product."

No doubt it gives a great boost in power. But I think consumers should know the TRUTH about this chip.

How many people does Mike reel in with this advertisement? Does he REALLY tell it like it is?

NO! Its a sales tactic. He can use all kinds of semantics to place doubt on those who show no gains. Things like, fuel types, energy content, and flaws in our testing and so forth. Obtaining ones MPG is a VERY VERY simple task Mike. DON'T INSULT OUR INTELLIGENCE!

Mike T challenges the simple LAW OF AVERAGES. Thats pretty arrogant in my eyes. Funning thing is, all the stupid people who listen to him. How in the world can you refute averages?

If in fact all these things affect your MPG then it would seem you would never get an increase with the chip. Or its too complex of thing to obtain,WHY BOTHER ADVERTISING THE POINT?

Ok so your not interested in MPG, this post was about that ONLY! Go to another thread where I woul be glad to join others who "rant" about the Superchips positive side!

 

Rand,
Two people have documented their mileage long term and showed no gain. I say two people without controlled conditions is just two bits of data, not conclusive proof.

As has been pointed out repeatedly, there are too many variables to expect that your experience is applicable to anyone else.

Don't really want to get into an argument about this, but anything that changes an engine's performance is likely to have certain trade offs. Maybe the chip gives you no mileage increase, but if I drive a constant 70 mph on high energy content fuel, the chip might give me a 2 mpg increase. You and your data say it won't, but my friend just got back from a 2000 mile road trip in his Expedition, and that's what he claims. Is your data more relevant to him than his direct experience. Sorry, it is not.

Same chip program + different vehicle + different driving conditions + different driver + different fuel = different results.

It is really not that hard to understand! Your experience is just not directly relevant to anyone else, but thanks for sharing (again).

 

Hi Rand),

Thanks for your post, and as even you can probably surmise, it's wasted bandwidth, but an excellent example of you, as always.

Rest well,
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 06-26-2001).]

 

"I have NEVER seen anyone else post long term data WITH A GAIN".

How many people have you seen post long term data? You speak of laws of averages. It would be helpful for us if we knew how many long term tests were done to come up with this "average".

"Want to see my data?......."

In order to get your point across, providing your data would be the thing to do.

".....SHOW US SOME LONG TERM DATA THAT PROVES THESE THEORIES ABOUT INCREASING MPG."

I believe the "theory" is, for some, as a by product of the spark advance ect., there is an increase in fuel mileage. That is the only way I have ever seen it put. If you have seen it presented differently, give us examples.

" I saw an initial increase. Then it dropped!"

Aside from Fords adaptive stragity, I cannot think of any thing that happens with the Superchip that would "change" over time. You dismiss the "theorys" of fuels having different energy content, varing quality and various driving habits. What are you attibuting this to?

"What is so incredible about Mike T. talking about it?"

Nothing is "incredible". It is more "credible". Mike is a Superchips national distributer. What are your credentials?

"NO! It's a sales tactic......"

Tactic? I'm not so sure about that. Sales? Of course. Mike is here for that purpose. I (and I'm sure many others) believe he goes far beyond most "sales" people to keep us informed. He has earned my trust.

"Ok, so your not interested......"

We don't need to be "intersted" in MGP to post. We are exercising our right to free speech, just as you are. We are also questioning you as you are Mike and Superchips.
You conviction is admirable. Your methods, well, not so.
I have not seen Mike or Superchips make the claims you have said they have. If that is what is happening then good for you. If you are misenturpreting some thing, then please recheck your data before you go on and on.....and on.
I hope were all having fun. I know I am
Tom

 

Damn Wittom, that was good. BRAVO-BRAVO. I second that motion. As I always say, I dig what your screaming. Mike goes way beyond and out of his way to inform any an everybody what to expect out of the chip. Can't see how that's a tactic. Just doing his job. If they buy it, that's great. If not, I'm sure that's fine too. But I know they won't be going away uneducated. Again, Good job.

------------------
1997 F-150 XLT 4X4 Off-Road
4.6L Auto.
3.55 Gears
All Power Interior
Tilt Wheel
Cruise Control
Sliding Rear Window
17" Rims W/ Goodyear RT/S P265-70R-17's
Cervini's Ram Air Hood
K&N Gen.
SUPERCHIP
True Dual Flowmasters
4" Chrome Tips
GTS Carbon Fiber Headlight Covers
Ford Motorsport Chrome Rear Cover
Ford Racing Duraliner
Lund Backdraft
35% Tinted Windows
Ultra Bright Headlights & Fog Lights
Pioneer DEH-9300 Head Unit
Pioneer EQ-6520 10-Channel Equalizer
4-Pioneer TS-P682 6x8 2-Way Components Speakers
2-Pioneer TS-A6995 6x9 4-Way Speakers
Pioneer TS-WX65A Amplified 6 1/2" Sub
Pioneer GM-X924 65 Watt 4-Channel Amp
Bel 980 Radar Detector
Viper Alarm
Rancho RSX Shocks Front and Rear
Lumi Logo Front Ford Emblem
Billet 4X4 Third Brake Light Cover
Ford F-Series Floor Mats
Ford Valve Stem Caps
Class III Hitch
Ford Hitch Receiver Cover
Westin Chrome Nerf Bars
---------------------------------

[IMG]file:///C|/1hold/ford-logo.gif[/IMG]

 

1. Again do a search and look for the posting I did on this a while ago. I'm NOT going to do this for you! The data is there!

2. Again someone posts a "My friend got 400 MPG with the Superchip on high energy camel dung while searching for the mighty Big Foot in Alaska." There's SOLID proof for you.

3. For those of you who miss the banner on this site that advertises the Superchip and "Increases MPG" your even more blind than I thought!


Someone PLEASE explain to me why you need to do this under a controlled situation! PLEASE!
If the Superchip gives you 10MPG increases in the lab, what good does that do ALL of us in the REAL WORLD if we see little or nothing?

I say the 93 octane gives you the increase NOT the Superchip. THERE! I say it could do this without the chip! PEOPLE HAVE ALSO POSTED INCREASES SIMILAR TO THE CHIP JUST BY USING 93 OCTANE!


Lets play the devils advocate:

Say the Superchip IN FACT gives me 2 MPG better.

-Should do so under MOST conditions right?

-Lower energy fuel was used in 87 octane as well as 93. So I should still get this 2 MPG increase.

Weather, driver, tire pressure, fuel, etc.. All affect your current fuel consumption.

So I get a bad reading this time with the chip. If I test over and over, I should eventually start to see this "increase" somewhere in the data RIGHT?


The OVERALL "BY PRODUCT" should be seen in the average no matter what conditions. If you do enough permutations this so called "by product" should be seen.

My background should not matter but I am very well educated. I have a BS degree and have worked as an engineer/consultant for 6 years.
I love asking WHY and choose not to accept Mike's explanations. They might be great for some of you, but if you TOO are educated, have an open mind, and understand basic math you might start to question WHY as well.

Hey I might be dead wrong, but someone show me/us several instances of LONG TERM data with an AVERAGE that PROVES the Superchip does in fact give a viable and worthy increase!

Mike you have such an incredible wit about you. "Wasting bandwidth" is getting old. Surely you can come up with some DATA or at least an intelligent arguement attempting to DISPROVE the law of averages (which I'd like to see).

For those of you who swallow all Mike can give you, dont forget to wipe off your chin!

This was NOT a personal attack on Mike to begin with, he started it. I will simply participate.



[This message has been edited by Rand (edited 06-27-2001).]

 

i kinda agree with Rand...I have nothing against Mike, i bought a superchip from him back in 99 but have since sold the truck...but it does seem like this place is a "cuba" with Castro running the shots....I hear ya Rand, the superchip is a decent product but its not the worlds greatest thing...I don't know, it just seems to me now that i am looking in from the outside that anyone that doesn't think the S chip is the best is blasted....off my soap box now...

 

Broken:

Well said.

What bothers me is that everyone is doing a lot of talking and only 2 of us acutally did anything about it. Words or actions. Which do you prefer?

I think 93 octane in a stock motor has a good arguement that decreased fuel consumption is a "by product." Apparently Ford's computer can do this WITHOUT the Superchip. If that arguement holds true, which may or may not, then the Superchips advertisements are false and Mike T isn't telling us all the information.

You honestly think Mike T would divuldge ANY negative aspects or attributes of this chip? Come on, he's the saleman.

Personally, I think until he can provide some SOLID proof with data, he has NO BUSINESS participating in these discussions. HE BIAS and HE ATTACKS!

He basically "rants" about energy contents, and pump clicks without EVER posting any data or articles where he gets his information. Why? Cause he cant...

I think the chip really does NOT give an improvement in most cases. I think the anomaly is the case where an improvement was seen. NOT the other way around.

Using "Increased MPG" as an advertisement implies that its the norm to get an improvement. I think its false and misleading.

 

INSIDE THE MIND OF A TYPICAL CONSUMER:

"Hmmmmm I could use a performance increase. WOW! Whats this ad is see... Superchips...Hhhhmmmmm... Increases HP, Increases Torque, AND Increases MPG... Sounds like this might be the wiser product to buy. Less guilt involved. After all, it should pay for itself over time with better MPG..."

How many people have said this to themselves?

That we know about?

see what I mean?

 

I'm with you on this one too Rand! The Superchip (or any other performance chip) is just that, a performance enhancement. I wish that the whole mpg thing would get dropped from the marketing once and for all. The banner ad advertises a mpg increase and since not everyone will see that I consider it to be deceptive advertising.

I owned one for a year and ran it in my Y2K right up until I traded the truck. I never, repeat, NEVER saw a mpg increase. I saw a very *NICE* hp increase though. My only regret was that I never kept better fuel consumption records.

I'm not making that mistake on my 2001 and have been keeping meticulous records since day 1. In a month or two I plan on adding a new Superchip so this time around I'll have an accurate baseline established. I will report back when I but and install it.

------------------
My New Baby: 2001 F-150 XLT Sport 4x4. 5.4L, S/C, S/S, Bright Red, Dark Graphite Int., 3.55, Class III Tow/Heavy Duty Cooling, 4 wheel disc ABS, Overhead Console, Factory In-Dash CD, Remote Keyless Entry.

Mods: Westin Nerf Bars, Ziebart Rust Protection, Ford Bug Deflector, Ventvisors, Cabin Air Filtration

Future Mods: Superchip, Air Force 1, Spray-in Bedliner, and Retrax.

2000 Polaris Sportsman 500, Camo Green, 4x4, 499cc 4-stroke, independent suspension, shaft drive, 4 wheel disc brakes, etc.