This question is for mike or anyone else who can help.

I will be sending my truck to another caribbean Island late next year. The problem is that they do not have any fuel over 90 octane from the gas stations. I do not want to get the filp chip because I am really enjoting the firmness of the shifts from the transmission(WOW) and the extra horse power(SUPERB).

Is there anything I can do? I was thinking of adding octane booster when ever I fill up the tank with the 90.

Any suggestions will be helpful.

Oh I almost forgot, man this truck runs good with the chip and fipk. I am running her constantly on 93 octane. Every morning I get in that truck and start her up,I smile.

If anyone is interested I have pictures, just say the word.

 

Hi Fowl,

Good question!

It will really depend on just how good the quality of that 90 octane fuel is, meaning primarily, it's actual energy content. If it's a good fuel, then your Superchip will continue to work just fine, you just won't make as much power as you will on that 93 octane, of course.

If it's not a good quality fuel, then you might pick up some detonation (pinging, or spark knock), which would require changes to the program.

With regards to using the Flip Chip when it's set up with the 87 & 92 octane combination, just in case you may have a misunderstanding, what we do on the 87 octane side is to do all of the same changes to improve the automatic transmission shifting that we do in the 92+ octane program. That way, no matter which program you're running on, you still get all the *other* benefits, such as the improved transmission shifting. In fact, what we normally do in those 87 & 92 octane combos is to make both programs *identical* except for the octane level the engine is tuned for, that way the only difference is the engine power output, everything else is the same in both programs. That is just one possible combination.

Good luck!

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

 

I don't see you having any problems with the 90 octane, I've been blending mine since 1999 and 2 different chips and have had no problems
By the way, can I go with your truck?

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DOGCAM
dogcam@f150guy.com
01 F-150 SC Lariat
Flareside 4X2,5.4,3:73
LS, SnugLid,Dynomax
Exhaust,Kenwood Amps,
Speakers,JL 10" Sub

 

I know Mike will say not to, but I've tried a tank of 87 with the 92 program, and I get no ping, or anything. Not even the slightest.I'm sure it depends on the fuel quality.I ran Citgo.Mike all things being equal, higher octane fuel doesn't make more power. Unless our trucks have octane sensors, and will advance the timing for a higher octane fuel. Octane is merely a rating to resist auto-ignition from left over spent gasses.

------------------
2001 F-150 XLT S-CAB 4.6 "Fully equipt, and Superchip'd!"
96 Taurus GL
93 Kenne-Bell Supercharged Mustang
"Injection is nice, but I perfer being blown!"

www.kenne-bell.com/owners.asp
http://www.corral.net/cgi-bin/member...p00000403&p&p0


86 Kawasaki ZG 1000 A-1 Concours



[This message has been edited by jstang (edited 06-12-2001).]

 

Hi jstang, etc.,

Good to see you again, jstang!

And yes, you're darned right ( ) we'll say not to run 87 octane with a single-program Superchip, or on the Flip Chip on the premium gas side, and here's why: first, the burn rate is off, the fuel curves must be precisely calibrated to compensate for the different burn rate of higher octane. Running the single-program Superchip or the Flip Chip on it's 92 octane side on 87 octane will *never* yield the best driveability, mileage or power, as the fuel curves are off. Sure, it runs, and runs pretty much "normally", but the driveabilty & combustion aren't what they could be. The burn rate *must* be tuned for, for optimal operations.

But that's just a relatively minor issue in comparison to the biggie, which is detonation: while these vehicles do have knock sensor systems, they are not unlimited or absolute, nor are they very consistent in terms of their total effective compensation range. About half of these F-150's can be run all the way down to 87 octane without exhibiting audible detonation with the Superchip *if* there is enough total effective compensation range in the knock sensor system in that individual vehicle, which is apparently the case with your vehicle, that can certainly happen, you bet! And then roughly the other half of these vehicles, from what we've seen, will audibly "ping" (detonate) with anything less than a good quality premium gas in the tank with the Superchip, there is *that* much variance in the performance of these knock sensor systems. It's not just a matter of any high-quality 87 octane will allow anyone to run their Superchip down to 87 octane, that's not the case at all, it's a matter of the total effective compensation range of the knock sensor system in each individual vehicle, and most people aren't aware that there is significant variance in the response range of those systems.

And jstang, I *know* what octane is and isn't. The Superchip tunes that F-150 engine for 92 octane fuel, and anything appreciably less, like the 90 octane that Fowl & I were discussing, even with good energy content (which is expressed in terms of the number of BTU's per gallon or lb. of fuel), is going to result in detonation, which then causes the knock sensor to activate & thus the ECU reduces timing & detonation is quelled, protecting the engine. This happens quickly enough that the driver doesn't even hear any detonation as long as it's within the knock sensor's adjustment range on that particular vehicle. The driver normally doesn't realize anything is happening during this process, unless perhaps he/she notices a bit less power if they're not driving conservatively at the time. The bottom line is that, all else being equal, the engine is not going to make as much power on 90 octane as it will on 92 or higher octane **when using the Superchip**, either the single-program Superchip or the Flip Chip on it's premium gas setting. If that weren't the case, there would be no need to use premium gas with the Superchip.

Good to "see" you here again jstang, & thanks for your post!
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 06-12-2001).]

 

My 97 could run 3 or 4 tanks of 87 with the chip then it would start to ping. My 00 pings by the end of the 1st tank. The 97 truck would run better without the chip on 87 gas.

Here is one for the experts. Why does my 00 run better on US gas than Ontario? Both are the same octane 93. Is it the 10% alcohol in the Canadian gas?

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier

 

Hi JMC,

That's a good point, and you've mentioned that here before in the past as have several others when we've discussed this topic of what hapens when you try to run the Superchip on lower octane gas. If you've been running premium, there will still be some dilution of the incoming regular gas for a few tanks, just like there is when you've been running regular and then switch to premium for the installation of the Superchip. That can help in cases where the knock sensor system's compensation range is "close", and finally when you have nothing but 87 in the tank, it starts detonating, because it's finally beyond the compensation range of the knock sensor system. Of course, as always, we have to mention NOT to use the Superchip on anything less than high-quality premium gasoline, as that is what it's tuned for. With that out of the way, yes, I know what you mean JMC, from our past discussions, and it's a relevant point when doing that, you bet.

I also appreciated your comment about it running better on 87 octane without the Superchip than with it (this is the single-program Superchip that requires premium gas we're talking about here, for anyone who is reading this thread), and that makes perfect sense given the fact that the fuel curves are off when you try to run the Superchip on regular gas. By the time you get all the way down to 87 octane, that lower octane fuel burns considerably quicker than 92 octane does, and that affects driveability, performance & mileage.

To answer your question, yes, any gasoline that is an alcohol blend, like "gasahol" as we call it here in the States, will have a lower energy content, and thus less performance and mileage. It's the alcohol portion of the content that will have just under half the relative energy value of gasoline, and that's why Indy race cars that run on ethanol, or more typically, methanol, have to burn approximately 2.1 gallons of alcohol for every 1 gallon of gasoline that would normally be burned. It's due to the very low energy content of alcohol compared to gasoline, and that is why mileage (and performance) will be less if you burn that gasahol blend compared to using "normal" premium gasoline.

Now you have me curious, are you saying that in your area of Canada, *all* your gasolines are "gasahol", or in other words, alcohol-blended fuels? Is that something that's just in your area, or is that *all* gasoline sold in Canada *must* be part alcohol perhaps?

Thanks for your post JMC, as always!

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

 

Thanks guys for all your response, they are very enlightening. Hey dogcam the pictures will be coming shortly, that is as soon as I figure out how to post them.

 

Mike, I will disagree with you here.Higher octane will have nothing to do with the amount of power produced, it merely allows you to safely add timing,or lean the mixture. This is the source of any additional power.The difference in flame front travel speed is minimal between 87 and 92 in fact they burn at very close speeds, here is the difference.Most people belive that only the spark plug is what starts the combustion process,its only a small part. Hydrogen atoms begin to remove themselfs from hydrocarbon molecules from the heat of compression, and left over end gasses in the cylinder.This causes the production of "free radicals" such as OH, HO2 and free O and H atoms that can auto ignite before the flame front(from the plug) reaches them. Higher octane fuels have stronger carbon-hydrogen bonds, and reduce this effect. Advancing the timing, starts the flame front sooner, and builds cylinder pressure sooner along with heat, high octane fuel, resists breaking down and auto igniting, where low octane will break down, auto ignite and now we have 2 flame fronts that collide!!!"Detonation!!" , creating very high clyinder pressures, along with more heat, causing more molecular break down(visious cycle)The chip adds timing, and I belive leans it out a little,a leaner mixture burns hotter, more heat means more thermal expansion, and more downward force on the pistion( too much heat and it'll burn through the piston), more power, however this power creates heat and pressure within the cylinder, and causes the fuel to breakdown as explained above, so if you add timing and lean it out, you make more power, now you need a fuel that will withstand the harsher enviroment in the clyinder.

------------------
2001 F-150 XLT S-CAB 4.6 "Fully equipt, and Superchip'd!"
96 Taurus GL
93 Kenne-Bell Supercharged Mustang
"Injection is nice, but I perfer being blown!"

www.kenne-bell.com/owners.asp
http://www.corral.net/cgi-bin/member...p00000403&p&p0


86 Kawasaki ZG 1000 A-1 Concours

[This message has been edited by jstang (edited 06-13-2001).]

 

In Ontario as far as I know all gasoline regardless of octane may contain up to 10% of alcohol/methanol mix. Canadian Alcohol opened up in Chatham a few years ago and are heavy into the Government coffers for donations to get renewable fuels going. Back in the 80's, UCO and Sunoco had a joint project to supply Co-Op gas stations with alcohol added gasoline.

In Québec there may be a few companies that are adding alcohol to the mix but they are the exception. In a few years they will be building an alcohol plant somewhere in Québec so I expect it will be available there too.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier

 

Jstang,

You can disagree all you want my friend, but you'd be better served by going back and re-reading what I posted *carefully*.

I said by what I said, it is correct, and I stand by every word of it, jstang. You might remember that this is what we do for a living, we are experts, & physics haven't changed in this regard lately.

I wish you well,

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 06-14-2001).]

 

Mike, you and I have had a difference of opinion before, remember.....lol. I'm not looking to begin a flame war. I hope you will give me that much, especially after we have talked at lengths before.I have a great book about this very subect, I got it from a chemist that works at Uniroyal chemical, Naugatuck CT. I think what you are saying is a simplified version of what I wrote.The reason for what would "appear" to be a faster burn rate is the production of un-stable free radicals, that will auto ignite. You can produce more power with a higher octane fuel because it allows you to "tune" for optimun running conditions, simply adding more octane will not yeild more power, unless changes are made to the timing and fuel delivery. will you agree to this? thats what I'm tring to say, I hope it clears things up.With all respect John

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2001 F-150 XLT S-CAB 4.6 "Fully equipt, and Superchip'd!"
96 Taurus GL
93 Kenne-Bell Supercharged Mustang
"Injection is nice, but I perfer being blown!"

www.kenne-bell.com/owners.asp
http://www.corral.net/cgi-bin/member...p00000403&p&p0


86 Kawasaki ZG 1000 A-1 Concours

 

While were on this subject, what about a big increase of octane, like going to 100-105 octane? Will that alone increase performance? I use that in my car when I race and I can feel the difference (at least it feels that way).

Also what about leaded gas? If you have no cat and run 115 octane (did that in my old car) that will not create any power in itself?

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2000 Black Excursion
4WD XLT V10 -Fully Loaded
-Volant Cold Air Intake
-Airaid T.B. Spacer

[This message has been edited by EXCURS10N (edited 06-14-2001).]

 

Chemistry, Physics and electronic engine management 101. Exam soon?

Mike and Jstang are both right and are both describing the same thing but from different viewpoints. Mike is explainig what happens in the engine with regard to tuning and the ECU and jstang is describing the physical chemical reaction taking place.

Summary: Octane does not make power, Tuning makes power but you cannot tune certain parameters without the higher Octane.

This site is the best when it comes to this kind of info. If I go to my local speed shop they just want money but can't always explain why something works.

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01 Black XLT 4x2 Screw Gen I, 5.4, Moonroof, 3.55LS, Cloth Captains, Slider, Extender, ClassIII towing, 6 Disc etc.
Mods planned:
Gibson Single Sweptside, AirRaid, Superchip, Line-X bed liner, Fog/driving lights, Tint, Speed grill.

 

Bingo , Thanks Norm.

------------------
2001 F-150 XLT S-CAB 4.6 "Fully equipt, and Superchip'd!"
96 Taurus GL
93 Kenne-Bell Supercharged Mustang
"Injection is nice, but I perfer being blown!"

www.kenne-bell.com/owners.asp
http://www.corral.net/cgi-bin/member...p00000403&p&p0


86 Kawasaki ZG 1000 A-1 Concours