Got my G-Tech today!

And even though it's 105 outside I had to give it a go. At first I was a little disapponited to find my top HP readings coing out around 260-270. I did have the air off and had given the truck some time to adjust to no A/C but I just couldn't break the 270 barrier. After looking thru the instructions (DUH!) I found that making sure the device is "square" is critical to accuracy. It was indeed off several degrees. I messed with it a few time and ended up with a "best" of 298HP!!! That's only about 9 HP shy of the best Dyno result! So naturally I'm pleased. I do not like the fact, however, that everytime I turn this thing on I have to Input the weight again. Especially when I've got to count up to 6,150! (Had my truck weighed at local landfill!). Anyway I'll let you all know if I find anything else worth mentioning about it..Oh by-the-way...It's tiny!

 

HI!... WYNJAMMER did you try the 1/4 mile function on your G-TECH PRO? If so what did you run?

------------------
NEAL [ the horsepower freak ] NEWMAN
'99' F-150 XLT SPORT, oxford white, reg cab shortbox stepside,5.4, auto, 3.55L.S, captain's chairs, bedliner, GTS carbon fiber headlight covers, **** CEPECK clear halogen driving lights, GTS slotted tailight covers (painted oxford white), FORD locking lug nuts, tinted windows,true duel exhaust with 2.5 inch mandrel bent pipes and FLOWMASTER 3 chamber mufflers with 3' tailpipes exiting before the rear wheel like the LIGHTNING, HELLWIG rear stabalizer bar, AUTOMETER guage pod and tranny temp guage, custom fabricated air intake trac and huge K/N filter, TPS mod, BELLTECH 2-inch rear drop, soon to be installed 4.10 gears, and just ordered my SUPERCHIP.

 

1. I really want to use those icons, but every time I try it says "error" or something like that.

2. Which means maybe when my G-tech arrives tomorrow from Summit, I won"t be able to program it correctly.

3. Seriously, are they difficult to use?

------------------

Bill Murray
60 going on 17 w/my:
99.5 White Lightning
Bone Stock for now.
Stay tuned.

 

they can be a little difficult at first, it's kind of like setting up a digital watch, push this button to stop,hold, change, but you are doing it with 0-60 & 1/4mi, or other side is a weight thing, hp, g-forces, braking, there is a plus or minus to get it perfectly balanced in place on windshield, and for most things you can set up before hand , in you driveway etc, then drive to a lonely stretch, stop, hit the button, and it will wait on you to start your test, but once it feels the vehicle even budge, it starts timing, i get my best hp rating at the end of 2nd gear, you can get 0-60 and continue strait through for 1/4 numbers in one test. most 0-60 & 1/4 times remain fairly constant, hp numbers jump up and down with environment, especially with a blower.

 

I did try the 0-60 and 1/4 mile but I refuse to post it cause it stunk! What I need to figure out is "red-line" on this truck and if the Superchip allows me to reach it? I have always let the tranny shift automatically but I know from my younger racing days that best performance is achieved by holding it in first until right before red-line. When I tried this before the truck was obviously limited and the fuel cutoff made me think I'd just blown it up! Before I try it I'd like to know exactly what's safe and if that chip does in fact allow me to get there now (did I already say that?)...Anyone?

 

Wynjammer, you did a good job getting that heavy truck from 30lb/net hp to about 20, my lightning is about 15, and my dodge is under 10. at 20 your 0-60 & 1/4mi should be about the same as a better than average car. not bad for a 3.08ton "truck"

 

Dear DHFerguson, and other interested parties following this thread:

As I mentioned in the post immediately before yours, you *cannot* compare Wynjammer's custom Superchip to the results of any of the standard Superchips for the F-series trucks. It's apples and oranges, at best.

What also needs to be understood is that in his custom application, in which we had no access to his vehicle, our job was to tune that engine so it will be safe to run with that supercharger under any circumstances on the street. So trying to judge Superchips performance by his rough dyno charts on a custom application is a mistake, if you care about accuracy.

I agree with you somewhat about "the area under the curve", but dyno's don't show the whole picture, no matter how you look at the charts. It's how the vehicle *drives* and feels that matters. Raw power is one thing, driveability another, and they do not automatcally go hand in hand. Also, no dyno plot shows anything other than wide-open throttle numbers, there is no reflection of increased power under part-throttle, or improvements in driveability, and those gains are in almost all cases substantially *larger* than the *peak* gains, and there again, that can only be had with the Superchip, no other chip in the world increases part-throttle power. Superchips is the only company that goes to the time, expense, R&D and aggravation to make these part-throttle changes, and to certify for emissions complaince. Only Superchips. The dyno plots don't show any detailed information about the power curve like the before & after of his vehicle, before we removed the shift delays and spark retards. On Superchips highly sophisticated dyno, you can clearly see the effects. For example, on his automatic transmission-equipped vehicle, the power gains during the fraction of a second that the WOT 1-2 upshift now takes are probably in excess of 70-80 horsepower! On a stock F-150, it's anywhere from 30-50 hp, from the removal of those items, during the WOT 1-2 upshift. On a stock F-150, the power gains in transitional areas, such as during and just after an upshift, it's typical to see substantially larger gains than the gains in actual peak horsepower. It takes a much more thorough and sophisticated chassis dyno to develop and see these types of improvements, and that's what you get with a Superchip, and nowhere else.

In this situation we have the first custom chip done for the Wynjammer supercharger by Superchips (to the best of my knowledge), with no access to the vehicle, with absolutely NO real-time data such as A/F ratios, EGT, emissions, or anything else. All we had to go by were rough power levels, nothing more. And with only that, we delivered improved driveability, and an engine that he can safely do the things he likes to do, like running up a 7% grade at WOT for sustained periods of time, without worrying if he's running lean, or detonating. There isn't another company in this country that could have done the programming job that was done by Superchips under those circumstances.

I think it would be *very* interesting to see what the results would be if we ever got access to the vehicle, and could have all the real-time data to work with. Then it *could* be tuned aggressively. But *only* then.

Our job was to first insure reliable operation, and improve driveability. We did that, and then some.

I think it's been very obvious from the hundreds of posts from members who have installed the Superchip that it does add power at all points of the curve, and that is of course borne out on the dyno plots, which can be seen on Superchips' web site. Every Superchip for the Fords (and most other makes) adds power from 1000 rpm on up, regardless of throttle position, and it's the only product of it's kind to do so. All others work only at wide-open throttle, and as such are worthless except perhaps at the drag strip.

Car & Driver magazine just completed a chip shootout, testing the 5 top name brands, including Superchips, Hypertech, & JET. The writer from Car & Driver just informed Superchips management that the Superchip was the *only* chip to actually add power, all others either gained nothing, or *lost* power. This will be published in an upcoming issue of Car & Driver, sometime in the next 2-3 months, we don't know exactly when.

In addition, we are scheduling another "Chip Shootout", directly comparing these products specifically for the members of F150online, in mid to late August. Steve Eppinger (our webmaster) and myself have to work out the exact dates and details, but this will be an event dedicated to F150online and it's members. Any F150online member who wants to attend will be welcome, you can come see for yourself how this work is done, when it's done *right*. We will probably be running Steve's truck on the chassis dyno, stock, and then with each of the other chips. So for all the "doubting Thomas's" and other sceptics, take a look at your August calender, and come join us, so you can see with your own eyes just how this is done.

I hope this helps to give some accurate perspective to everyone following this thread on Wynjammer's custom supercharged application. You simply cannot compare it to any standard Superchip application, which is what hundreds of our fellow members are using. And there's no comparison between his current results, and what we could achieve with access to the vehicle, or at least to accurate data required to aggressively tune any engine.

Respectfully,
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com

[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 07-08-1999).]

 

M.T., Wynjammer asked about redline and that reminded me of a question I had for you.

What should the rpm be when the auto shifts at wot? Using the factory tach, mine is consistantly shifting at 5000. I recall 5800 mentioned in another post. If that's the correct #, could my tach be off that much? That would be a pretty large error. I've got an engine diagnostic meter that I could hook up to compare the two.

------------------
98 F150 XLT SC 4.6 4x4 ORP 3.55 LS, Factory: towing pkg, fogs, steps, slider, remote entry; Hella driving lights, aux backup lights, K&N filter and airbox mod, Rhino lining, Roll-n-lock cover, SuperChip, fog light mod, AC mod, spare tire mount mod

 

Sorry Mike, I really didn't mean to be at the heart of any confusion. I will add that you are absolutely correct. I've spoken with several racing and custom people I know here in the valley and they all agree that without Superchips being able to do hands on with my truck smaller discreet steps are the most prudent course of action. I am currently pursing the means to get some "real" data beyond the brute force measured by the passive Dyno I've been using. My goal is to help Superchips and myself learn how we might safely squeeze more out. This will take time and patience (not one of my strong points!)I am learning what modern measurements in performance are all about! It is MUCH more complex these days than anyone (or most anyone) knows~!

Thanks Mike!

 

Wow, that's great. What type/size cat-back are you using? Is it loud/quiet? Also, how much boost were you making? What MAF and injectors..stock?? Sorry for all of the questions..but sounds like your deal really runs!!! Re you happy with the fit of the Wynjammer?
Thanks!

------------------
'99 5.4 XLT S/C, 3.55, Styleside, Oxford white



[This message has been edited by 5.4'99 (edited 07-09-1999).]

 

Wynjammer,

What rear end does your truck have? I drive a 99 SD CC 5.4l V8 w/ a 4.10 rear end. The weight on the title was 5,900 lbs. I'm guessing that my truck, with gas & myself will weigh about 6,400 lbs. Just curious about the rear end and weights of any other trucks.

Thanks,

Clif

 

Gears are 3.73, boost is 6.5, I have custom made duals from right behind cats (nice healthy rumble..), Stock injectors...
Hope that covers it...

------------------
1999 F250 LD 5.4 4x4 Lariat Supercab. White & Silver
Supercharger, Super chip, dual exhaust, K&N, Hidden Winch, Billet grill, Color GPS, Chrome Nerf & Flaps, clear tail & turn lenses, 9007 headlights, Inyati liner.

 

Mike Troyer:
Of course you’re right about the limitations of looking at just a WOT horsepower/torque graph. I not only spend <95% of my time between 1,500 and 2,500 RPM, I spend most of my time at part throttle. I guess driveability is THE key issue for me.

The car I had prior to the ’97 Lariat was an Eagle Talon TSI AWD Turbo. I loved that car, however, it had terrible turbo lag. Unless you kept it above 3,500 RPM, it would bog down and then rocket away after a second or so. I much prefer lots of torque and quick throttle response.

Maybe what I would like to see is a 3D graph that adds an axis for throttle position. Then would it be ‘volume under the slope’?

I’m ready to order my Superchip, but I’m still a little unclear. Should I wait until they have finished the R&D? You told us this application would be a ‘Flip-Chip’. Will the ‘fall-back’ mode (switch position 1) be a de-tuning that would be appropriate for winter driving? Is the upcoming Micro Tuner going to be field adjustable? Can I use it to fine tune, change shift points, etc… or make modifications to the program that Superchips or others come up with in the future?

I really appreciate everything you’ve done to promote understanding of the engine/transmission control process. I would love to drive down to Orlando for the F150Fest. But Florida in August? How about a LightningFest in October/November?

BTW - I mistakenly typed 'Superchip.com', not 'SuperchipS.com' when looking for the Web site. I got ADS SuperChip's page. It looked completely different and I was confused, so I called the 888 number. Seems ADS makes performance chips for Fords (and others), but not for late model Fords. This guy said he knew nothing of SuperchipS.

------------------
'99 Black Lightning




[This message has been edited by DHFerguson (edited 07-09-1999).]

 

Dear PGmr,

No, your tach isn't off that much, although electronic tachs are not known for accuracy, particularly when you're accelerating hard in 1st gear. There's a big diference in the upshift points rpm, depending on the configuration of the vehicle, even with the same engine. Whether it's an F-150, a F-250, or a F-350 makes a difference as well as other factors, as the bigger trucks upshift sooner, usually, since they usually get more hard use, in the automaker's eyes.

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com

 

Dear DHFerguson,

Say, that *would* be something excellent to be able to see, some type of method of showing the part-throttle gains, that would be *perfect* for the Superchip, due to it's part-throttle changes.

As far as the new Lightning Flip Chip, it's shipping with the standard boost performance program, but we need to see more vehicles, more examples, due to so much variance in the performance of these vehicles from the wide-ranging boost pressures before we'll have the high-boost program finished. The boost spec for the 360 hp factory rating is 8psi, and we're seeing them coming from the factory with anywhere from 5 psi to as much as 10psi. (Hence the 1/4 times of anywhere from 14.9 to 13.46, weather notwithstanding) There are also some rather severe idle quality problems being experienced by many owners. All in all, more examples of the vehicle need to be gone over at Superchips development facility, to learn more about the vehicle. It's easy to make a performance program for the Lightning, it's programmed so very conservatively that we're getting 8 10th's (.8 sec) quicker 1/4 mile times just with minor tuning. But Superchips wants to provide the Lightning owner with a fall-back position, which would be it's stock program (they're all CUX1 codes), in case the vehicle travels to an area of lower fuel quality, and it happens, and that's why it's a Flip Chip application, to store both programs.

We have a number of Lightnings running the Flip Chip, and they're all pretty happy with it, but there is *so* much more potential in that vehicle. I feel that 450 hp is going to be reasonable. The supercharger itself is capable of delivering 13-15 psi total boost without even changing the pulley, it's being controlled electronically for the first time ever in an Eaton application. I think more time and more vehicles need to be played with, before we're going to see a fully developed application that both delivers all the potential performance the factory ECU program is robbing Lightning owners of, coupled with the fall-back program to protect the engine in areas of low-energy fuel.

My advice? It depends on how anxious you are to get more performance, that's the best answer I can give. Theere are good gains now, with more to come, once more is known about the vehicle.

We have a much better shot at getting a bunch of F150online members together in the summer, when the kids are out of school, then we ever would during any time during the school year. But if you can get some Lightning owners together, then maybe we can make a Lightning-specific event for that kind of time frame. You get the people together, I can make the rest happen!

And trust me, the people at ADS know *exactly* who Superchips is, that's exactly why they named their product a "Super Chip", and exactly why their web site is just one letter different from Superchips. They have always tried to cause that type of confusion, and then try to take advantage of it. Because they have such a very narrow line of products, they aren't considered a "viable" chipmaker or competitor by anyone in the industry. You can pick up one of their junk GM chips for $50 from JC Whitney!

Thanks for your post, and the ideas!

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com

[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 07-12-1999).]