NTX/26 vs 20/26 vs Blackfire Compare
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From: Under the flightpath of old ORD 22R
NTX/26 vs 20/26 vs Blackfire Compare
Just a quick update on the comparison that I started when NXT came out. There is a subjective comparison on 2 of these for durability, but only in regards to how hard they were to remove and start over, not a true test of usage longevity.
Test case, Silver YN.
NXT & #26 : This combo does not look bad. It does have the sterile look to it. Not a wet shine by any means. The full combo is 1 step perfect paint polish, NXT, and topped with #26. Removal of this combo was using 1 step perfect paint polish ( something like a 2-3 on the Polish scale from Maguire's ), Dawn wash, and check with clay to confirm the studder for bare paint.
#20 / #26 combo. : This combo has the wet look to it, but is somewhat a Saran wrap finish. Not perfect clarity, but the wet looks hides the want to inspect it in detail. Don't know how this is to take off, I have not tried to do this yet. I will be stripping part of this to go with Polish / #26 combo to check if the wet finish is any better. Just need some time to do this.
The other item of note, Maguire's glaze is a combo product, not a straight glaze that is applied between polish and wax like Mother's.
BlackFire : This is a polish and "wax" combo. Application is real nice, but the finish is both sterile and Saran wrap look to it. Kind of reminds me of what a paint job would look like if only cared for with a straight cleaner wax. Never polished, never clayed, etc.
Removal of this is a PITA. I did a polish, dawn wash, and clay check of the area that was being stripped, and it was still slick. Had to use 2 applications of PRE paint prep to get the BlackFire off to a level where I could dawn Wash it, and Clay it to feel the studder of bare clear coat. So it seems on the surface that BlackFire is a tad more removal resistant, which maybe linked to it might last longer ?? Again the durability test, the way I am doing it, is very subjective at best.
The synthetic "wax" areas more sheet water then bead water, which I have read is typical of a Synthetic product in general. BlackFire says this is to reduce water spots after rain.
The next test areas are going to be :
-#20/#26 vs polish ( #7 or #81 ) & 26 to check the wet look of the 2 combos.
The Saran Warp look, I don't think I will get away from on Maguire's #20 product.
-Mother's Reflections Polish, Glaze, and Phase III wax. This is the combo I have used for a number of years, and wanted to test the look between this and Maguire's Polish & #26 combo.
BTW : A small test area of the black mirror caps and the black between the doors on a SCrew, the combo of P21S Polish / Wax and 1 Step Perfect Paint Polish and Top of the line Trade secret wax yielded no noticeable differences. I figured I would try this combo on on black, prior to changing the set on my ZR-9R in Metallic Blue. Guess the net results are I will use the P21S on my ZX, just because I have it, not because it is better. Not really worth the money over the other combo.
https://www.f150online.com/galleries...2028-66491.jpg
Test case, Silver YN.
NXT & #26 : This combo does not look bad. It does have the sterile look to it. Not a wet shine by any means. The full combo is 1 step perfect paint polish, NXT, and topped with #26. Removal of this combo was using 1 step perfect paint polish ( something like a 2-3 on the Polish scale from Maguire's ), Dawn wash, and check with clay to confirm the studder for bare paint.
#20 / #26 combo. : This combo has the wet look to it, but is somewhat a Saran wrap finish. Not perfect clarity, but the wet looks hides the want to inspect it in detail. Don't know how this is to take off, I have not tried to do this yet. I will be stripping part of this to go with Polish / #26 combo to check if the wet finish is any better. Just need some time to do this.
The other item of note, Maguire's glaze is a combo product, not a straight glaze that is applied between polish and wax like Mother's.
BlackFire : This is a polish and "wax" combo. Application is real nice, but the finish is both sterile and Saran wrap look to it. Kind of reminds me of what a paint job would look like if only cared for with a straight cleaner wax. Never polished, never clayed, etc.
Removal of this is a PITA. I did a polish, dawn wash, and clay check of the area that was being stripped, and it was still slick. Had to use 2 applications of PRE paint prep to get the BlackFire off to a level where I could dawn Wash it, and Clay it to feel the studder of bare clear coat. So it seems on the surface that BlackFire is a tad more removal resistant, which maybe linked to it might last longer ?? Again the durability test, the way I am doing it, is very subjective at best.
The synthetic "wax" areas more sheet water then bead water, which I have read is typical of a Synthetic product in general. BlackFire says this is to reduce water spots after rain.
The next test areas are going to be :
-#20/#26 vs polish ( #7 or #81 ) & 26 to check the wet look of the 2 combos.
The Saran Warp look, I don't think I will get away from on Maguire's #20 product.
-Mother's Reflections Polish, Glaze, and Phase III wax. This is the combo I have used for a number of years, and wanted to test the look between this and Maguire's Polish & #26 combo.
BTW : A small test area of the black mirror caps and the black between the doors on a SCrew, the combo of P21S Polish / Wax and 1 Step Perfect Paint Polish and Top of the line Trade secret wax yielded no noticeable differences. I figured I would try this combo on on black, prior to changing the set on my ZR-9R in Metallic Blue. Guess the net results are I will use the P21S on my ZX, just because I have it, not because it is better. Not really worth the money over the other combo.
https://www.f150online.com/galleries...2028-66491.jpg
Last edited by SSCULLY; Mar 22, 2004 at 07:15 PM.
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Re: NTX/26 vs 20/26 vs Blackfire Compare
Originally posted by SSCULLY
.
NXT & #26 : This combo does not look bad. It does have the sterile look to it. Not a wet shine by any means. The full combo is 1 step perfect paint polish, NXT, and topped with #26. Removal of this combo was using 1 step perfect paint polish ( something like a 2-3 on the Polish scale from Maguire's ), Dawn wash, and check with clay to confirm the studder for bare paint.
.
NXT & #26 : This combo does not look bad. It does have the sterile look to it. Not a wet shine by any means. The full combo is 1 step perfect paint polish, NXT, and topped with #26. Removal of this combo was using 1 step perfect paint polish ( something like a 2-3 on the Polish scale from Maguire's ), Dawn wash, and check with clay to confirm the studder for bare paint.
Also, did you apply the NXT by hand or by PC?
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From: Under the flightpath of old ORD 22R
Originally posted by FX4Me
How soon after the application of NXT did you apply your first coat of #26? I plan on using this combo but was not sure if the NXT needed to cure first before the #26 top coat. I plan on two coats of NXT, then one coat of #26.
Also, did you apply the NXT by hand or by PC?
How soon after the application of NXT did you apply your first coat of #26? I plan on using this combo but was not sure if the NXT needed to cure first before the #26 top coat. I plan on two coats of NXT, then one coat of #26.
Also, did you apply the NXT by hand or by PC?
I used my Cyclo polisher to apply the #26. I only use my dad's PC with the 4" backing plate when I need to polish my Motorcycles. Makes it real handy to do this, as it is the same size pads as my Cyclo.
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From: Under the flightpath of old ORD 22R
additional Tests done this weekend
Another project that I have been working on for this spring is finding something other than wax for dad's RV. 38' of RV with polish and wax 3 times a year is way too much waxing for even me.
I took the advice of one member here that uses nothing but Liquid Glass. He likes the finish of it, and it lasts like iron ( paint prep directions are #000 steel wool and mineral sprits ).
I used dad's work truck as a test, black 11 years old and 140k miles. Dad had gotten some stuff called Protect-All to try as well.
The driver's side is done is Liquid Glass, and the pass side is done in protect all.
The Protect-All is about half the cost of Liquid Glass, and even down to the smell of the 2, they are identical.
The finish on black was amazing, and both so far have the same beading functions, and look to the finish.
Real quick application times. Protect-All seemed to have a bit more cleaning elements to it, but this might be the area ?? Seemed to be a bit too regular on the oxidation that the pass side had on the rag.
The finish did not have that seran wrap look to it by any means. Dad even did mom's silver van with Protect-All, and it looked better than the NXT or BlackFire areas on my truck.
Lasting power..still up in the air. I would imagine that it is quite good, considering what needs to be done to prep the area for paint.
Just an additional test that was not part of the current testing on my Silver Truck. This might be what I use from the door gaurd down.
I took the advice of one member here that uses nothing but Liquid Glass. He likes the finish of it, and it lasts like iron ( paint prep directions are #000 steel wool and mineral sprits ).
I used dad's work truck as a test, black 11 years old and 140k miles. Dad had gotten some stuff called Protect-All to try as well.
The driver's side is done is Liquid Glass, and the pass side is done in protect all.
The Protect-All is about half the cost of Liquid Glass, and even down to the smell of the 2, they are identical.
The finish on black was amazing, and both so far have the same beading functions, and look to the finish.
Real quick application times. Protect-All seemed to have a bit more cleaning elements to it, but this might be the area ?? Seemed to be a bit too regular on the oxidation that the pass side had on the rag.
The finish did not have that seran wrap look to it by any means. Dad even did mom's silver van with Protect-All, and it looked better than the NXT or BlackFire areas on my truck.
Lasting power..still up in the air. I would imagine that it is quite good, considering what needs to be done to prep the area for paint.
Just an additional test that was not part of the current testing on my Silver Truck. This might be what I use from the door gaurd down.
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From: Under the flightpath of old ORD 22R
Few additional Synth & Wax notes.
Had 2 long trips in rain, so I got a bit of the salt spray tests done this past week.
Both seemed to do a good job with this. I stripped the front clip of the truck for the wax tests ( hood, both front fenders ) and the BlackFire was still as much as a PITA to get off. 2 coats of pre paint prep to get it down to the studder feel.
Went with #81 Polish this time under #26. Compared next to #20 / #26, the wet look and the shine of the non-synth product really showed. Even using #20 under #26 has that sterile shine to it, but no where near the BlackFire products.
Another test area is using the 1 step polish over the whole area, and part is #26, part is Top of the line Carnuba wax, and part is Mother's Phase III wax.
After about 20 hours after application, the Mother's has the least pop and wet look to it. The #26 looks good, but the Top of the line wax looks the best for shine and wet look. This is a paste wax, not a liquid wax.
So I will have to say side by side, #26 has a better finish then Mothers, but is not the best out of the group.
On my ZX in Blue metallic, I stripped the whole paint, and did part in 1 step polish, and Top of the Line wax, and part in P21S polish and wax. No difference between the 2. Reading a newspaper in the paint job ( actually looking at the letters, I can't read back wards that well ) there is no identifiable difference in the 2 products, and the 1 step polish / Top of the line wax is cheaper. Clarity, shine, and wet look is the same. Looked at this under Halogen lights, SP35 FL lights ( color corrected, 3500 Calvin temp, FL HO bulbs ) , and sun light
https://www.f150online.com/galleries...2028-88915.jpg
So where it stands, Top of the Line wax is the best under clarity, wet look, and shine, and is on par with P21S wax.
I will start to slowly strip panels on my Truck and do 1 step polish and Top of the line wax. The NXT areas won't be bad to do, it is the BlackFire areas that are going to take the time.
Give this is wax, not a synth product that I am putting on. I came to the conclusion that I do not care for Synth "waxes" in the appearance area.
Both seemed to do a good job with this. I stripped the front clip of the truck for the wax tests ( hood, both front fenders ) and the BlackFire was still as much as a PITA to get off. 2 coats of pre paint prep to get it down to the studder feel.
Went with #81 Polish this time under #26. Compared next to #20 / #26, the wet look and the shine of the non-synth product really showed. Even using #20 under #26 has that sterile shine to it, but no where near the BlackFire products.
Another test area is using the 1 step polish over the whole area, and part is #26, part is Top of the line Carnuba wax, and part is Mother's Phase III wax.
After about 20 hours after application, the Mother's has the least pop and wet look to it. The #26 looks good, but the Top of the line wax looks the best for shine and wet look. This is a paste wax, not a liquid wax.
So I will have to say side by side, #26 has a better finish then Mothers, but is not the best out of the group.
On my ZX in Blue metallic, I stripped the whole paint, and did part in 1 step polish, and Top of the Line wax, and part in P21S polish and wax. No difference between the 2. Reading a newspaper in the paint job ( actually looking at the letters, I can't read back wards that well ) there is no identifiable difference in the 2 products, and the 1 step polish / Top of the line wax is cheaper. Clarity, shine, and wet look is the same. Looked at this under Halogen lights, SP35 FL lights ( color corrected, 3500 Calvin temp, FL HO bulbs ) , and sun light
https://www.f150online.com/galleries...2028-88915.jpg
So where it stands, Top of the Line wax is the best under clarity, wet look, and shine, and is on par with P21S wax.
I will start to slowly strip panels on my Truck and do 1 step polish and Top of the line wax. The NXT areas won't be bad to do, it is the BlackFire areas that are going to take the time.
Give this is wax, not a synth product that I am putting on. I came to the conclusion that I do not care for Synth "waxes" in the appearance area.
Last edited by SSCULLY; Apr 6, 2004 at 12:21 AM.
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SSCULLY,
Nice review!
I too like the Trade Secret. It is a very nice wax. I also prefer the deep, dark look of a good glaze/carnauba combination, or synthetic product topped with carnauba on darker colors. However, on lighter colors, the clear, reflective look of some of the synthetics works really nice.
Nice review!
I too like the Trade Secret. It is a very nice wax. I also prefer the deep, dark look of a good glaze/carnauba combination, or synthetic product topped with carnauba on darker colors. However, on lighter colors, the clear, reflective look of some of the synthetics works really nice.
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From: Under the flightpath of old ORD 22R
Next Round of Meguiars testing
The next testing that I did tonight was :
#81 Hand polish applied with a White Lake Country pad.
#7 Applied with a Lake Country Pad ( different pad then above ).
#26 2 coats applied with a grey Lake Country pad. ( part ).
Hi-Temp Bahama Mama 2 coats applied with a Grey Lake Country pad ( different from above ) ( on part ).
The look after completing the wax between the Bahama Mama and the #26 is the same. I wil wait 24 hours to see how the 2 differ, if the weather holds.
I went over the whole area with a Orange Power Pad and light cut polish first to finish removing the BlackFire that was on the area.
I will say that after the #81 polish, the paint did feel different from the other polishes that I have used in the past. The #81 left the paint smooth, but it had a studder to it, as if there was nothing on the paint. It was strange after using the 1 Step polish from Hi-Temp or the Mother's Polish. Both of which contain a wax or similar additive.
The finish at this time is a nice wet look to it, more so then what I get using SMR and #26 alone. About on par with the 1 Step Polish and the Top of the line Wax ( which is equal to the P21S polish / wax combo ).
The next test area ( back to the driver's side ) is going to be 1 step polish and Bahama Mama and Menzerna Final Polish II / Menzerna Finishing Touch Glaze and then covered by Top of the Line Wax to see which is better over all.
So far I will have to say the wet look and pop of the Top of the Line wax is the best out of the group.
BTW : side note, the Curved Edge Variable Contact Pads are nice to use, but don't clean up as easy as the standard 6.5" pad from Lake Country. The form for the backup plate to recess into is kind of a firm plastic, which makes cleaning them in the Lake Country Pad solution a PITA. Much easier with the standard pads.
If you have not tried the Snappy Clean pad cleaning powder from Lake Country, do so. I used one package per 2.5 gals, and it cleans up pads in a jiffy. I take them off when I am done using them, dump them in the bucket ( with the gama seal lid on it ) and let them soak for ~ 15 - 20 min. Run my fingers through it, then rinse in hot water, and take them for a spin at #6, and then let them air dry ( sun is better ). just like new !!
#81 Hand polish applied with a White Lake Country pad.
#7 Applied with a Lake Country Pad ( different pad then above ).
#26 2 coats applied with a grey Lake Country pad. ( part ).
Hi-Temp Bahama Mama 2 coats applied with a Grey Lake Country pad ( different from above ) ( on part ).
The look after completing the wax between the Bahama Mama and the #26 is the same. I wil wait 24 hours to see how the 2 differ, if the weather holds.
I went over the whole area with a Orange Power Pad and light cut polish first to finish removing the BlackFire that was on the area.
I will say that after the #81 polish, the paint did feel different from the other polishes that I have used in the past. The #81 left the paint smooth, but it had a studder to it, as if there was nothing on the paint. It was strange after using the 1 Step polish from Hi-Temp or the Mother's Polish. Both of which contain a wax or similar additive.
The finish at this time is a nice wet look to it, more so then what I get using SMR and #26 alone. About on par with the 1 Step Polish and the Top of the line Wax ( which is equal to the P21S polish / wax combo ).
The next test area ( back to the driver's side ) is going to be 1 step polish and Bahama Mama and Menzerna Final Polish II / Menzerna Finishing Touch Glaze and then covered by Top of the Line Wax to see which is better over all.
So far I will have to say the wet look and pop of the Top of the Line wax is the best out of the group.
BTW : side note, the Curved Edge Variable Contact Pads are nice to use, but don't clean up as easy as the standard 6.5" pad from Lake Country. The form for the backup plate to recess into is kind of a firm plastic, which makes cleaning them in the Lake Country Pad solution a PITA. Much easier with the standard pads.
If you have not tried the Snappy Clean pad cleaning powder from Lake Country, do so. I used one package per 2.5 gals, and it cleans up pads in a jiffy. I take them off when I am done using them, dump them in the bucket ( with the gama seal lid on it ) and let them soak for ~ 15 - 20 min. Run my fingers through it, then rinse in hot water, and take them for a spin at #6, and then let them air dry ( sun is better ). just like new !!
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SSCULLY,
I continue to watch this thread with great interest. Outstanding info/testing.
Anyhow, couple of questions, and comments.
Is the Top of the Line wax you are using the Bahama Mama, or the Trade Secret?
Interesting points on the #81. I find the #81 to look similar to the #7, only easier to remove. It is a "tiny-tiny" bit more abrasive, where the #7 has almost no abrasiveness. Did you apply it with a buffer? Maybe that has something to do with the look?
That Snappy Clean sounds like a cool product. Thanks for that tip!
I continue to watch this thread with great interest. Outstanding info/testing.
Anyhow, couple of questions, and comments.
Is the Top of the Line wax you are using the Bahama Mama, or the Trade Secret?
Interesting points on the #81. I find the #81 to look similar to the #7, only easier to remove. It is a "tiny-tiny" bit more abrasive, where the #7 has almost no abrasiveness. Did you apply it with a buffer? Maybe that has something to do with the look?
That Snappy Clean sounds like a cool product. Thanks for that tip!
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From: Under the flightpath of old ORD 22R
The Top of the line wax from 03-28-2004 is the paste form Top of the Line Trade Secret wax. Black container. This is the stuff that is on par with the P21S wax.
The Bahama Mana from 04-16-2004 is the Hi-Temp brand wax ( purchased from Top of The Line, but not a Top of the Line brand product ). This is some wax that I ordered with a new Orange pad ( dropped mine last week, so it went in the trash ), and some other stuff.
The #7 is a Glaze / Polish, does have fillers to it, where the #81 is pure polish, no fillers. I am not one to Polish a scratch out completely, I just mute the sharp edges of it, and would rather use a glaze to fill it in so it does not show.
I did use a PC on it this time to get the 3 layers of pads ( actually 3 out of the 4 ), as my Cyclo only has 3 in total ( orange power pad, yellow polishing, and white finishing, the green de-Ox I won't use on paint so I don't count it ).
All of the testing done here has been with either a Cyclo or PC DA polisher.
I will say now that about 20 hours is past without rain, the #26 area is smoother, and has better pop and wet look to it, then the Hi-Temp Bahama Mama wax. There must be something in the Bahama Mama that is hindering the base coats from showing through ??? Got me I am taking a SWAG at that, but considering that the only difference is the wax over the Polish and glaze, and it changed that much.
The Hi-Temp wax over the Meguiars Polish and Glaze does not look as good. I might try a Hi-Temp polish and wax area, but I don't think it could make that big of a difference to change the base. Do you think it would ? I am thinking it is the wax, as I have had great results with the Hi-Temp Polish and Top of the Line Trade Secret paste wax.
At this point I am about to have a garage sale with nothing but the Polishes and Waxes that I don't want to use again.
This is one of the 2 cabinets full of stuff for paint The other cabinet on the right also has the bottom 2 doors full of stuff. Each cabinet is 7' high
This was taken prior to my last 2 shipments.
https://www.f150online.com/galleries...2028-86945.jpg
The Bahama Mana from 04-16-2004 is the Hi-Temp brand wax ( purchased from Top of The Line, but not a Top of the Line brand product ). This is some wax that I ordered with a new Orange pad ( dropped mine last week, so it went in the trash ), and some other stuff.
The #7 is a Glaze / Polish, does have fillers to it, where the #81 is pure polish, no fillers. I am not one to Polish a scratch out completely, I just mute the sharp edges of it, and would rather use a glaze to fill it in so it does not show.
I did use a PC on it this time to get the 3 layers of pads ( actually 3 out of the 4 ), as my Cyclo only has 3 in total ( orange power pad, yellow polishing, and white finishing, the green de-Ox I won't use on paint so I don't count it ).
All of the testing done here has been with either a Cyclo or PC DA polisher.
I will say now that about 20 hours is past without rain, the #26 area is smoother, and has better pop and wet look to it, then the Hi-Temp Bahama Mama wax. There must be something in the Bahama Mama that is hindering the base coats from showing through ??? Got me I am taking a SWAG at that, but considering that the only difference is the wax over the Polish and glaze, and it changed that much.
The Hi-Temp wax over the Meguiars Polish and Glaze does not look as good. I might try a Hi-Temp polish and wax area, but I don't think it could make that big of a difference to change the base. Do you think it would ? I am thinking it is the wax, as I have had great results with the Hi-Temp Polish and Top of the Line Trade Secret paste wax.
At this point I am about to have a garage sale with nothing but the Polishes and Waxes that I don't want to use again.
This is one of the 2 cabinets full of stuff for paint The other cabinet on the right also has the bottom 2 doors full of stuff. Each cabinet is 7' high
This was taken prior to my last 2 shipments.https://www.f150online.com/galleries...2028-86945.jpg
Last edited by SSCULLY; Apr 18, 2004 at 01:11 PM.
