04-13-2015, 12:25 PM
Last edit by: IB Advertising
Interested in swapping your 4.6 to a 5.4? This thread lists several problems you may run in to. The most common are:
Read the full discussion below to find out how to deal with the common issues.
Read the full discussion below to find out how to deal with the common issues.
4.6 to 5.4 Swap Notes
#211
05-02-2013, 09:30 PM
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#212
05-03-2013, 09:26 AM
Thanks for the links. It looks like theres some good info in there.
I am using a 1 Ton Engine hoist from Harbor Freight and just ordered the plate you mentioned from Summit.
The E-Bay engine is set to be delivered tomorrow.
Time to tear into it and get it to the machine shop. Cant wait!
I am using a 1 Ton Engine hoist from Harbor Freight and just ordered the plate you mentioned from Summit.
The E-Bay engine is set to be delivered tomorrow.
Time to tear into it and get it to the machine shop. Cant wait!
Good luck with it and have fun.
#213
05-29-2013, 05:56 PM
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Ok so the engine came in a couple of weeks ago. The heads have these markings on them: RF-F75E-6090-C20A. The machine shop said they were ok. I have them redecking, putting in new valve guides / seals and doing a valve job on them. I am still not sure if I am going to use these heads or not. I am debating on using the Trick Flow 185's.
The Crank looked REAL nice! Its forged and have the wide bands on them. It had these markings F75EAL. The machine shop is going to check, clean / chanfer the oil passages and polish it up.
The Intake is the all alunimum one. This is the main reason I bought a 99 engine...
The Block was TRASH. No good. It had water in it and was rusted out so bad the machine shop couldnt save it. So I ordered a new block from summit racing. Seen Here http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6010-m54
Since the new block is on its way to the machine shop, the Crank is being redone, and the heads are being redone I guess Im in the market for some std sized forged pistons and some forged rods. Once I get them I'll send it to the machine shop and should have a good long block ready to go.... More info later.
The Crank looked REAL nice! Its forged and have the wide bands on them. It had these markings F75EAL. The machine shop is going to check, clean / chanfer the oil passages and polish it up.
The Intake is the all alunimum one. This is the main reason I bought a 99 engine...
The Block was TRASH. No good. It had water in it and was rusted out so bad the machine shop couldnt save it. So I ordered a new block from summit racing. Seen Here http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6010-m54
Since the new block is on its way to the machine shop, the Crank is being redone, and the heads are being redone I guess Im in the market for some std sized forged pistons and some forged rods. Once I get them I'll send it to the machine shop and should have a good long block ready to go.... More info later.
#214
05-31-2013, 07:39 PM
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P1549 and running doggy
Hello all!
I have a 2000 f150 i recently did the 5.4 swap on. I used a 99 expedition as my donor, i swapped the engine and engine harness. My problem is: im getting the p1549 code and truck runs crappy. It runs but just seems really doggy, not a great idle , and the power seems to fade in and out etc. I know that i can't plug in the IMTV because i used the 5.4 harness. I also couldnt use the computer from the exp. because i have 4r70w and it didnt. I tried a junkyard computer from a 00 f150 with a 5.4 but had to have it taken to ford because of the PATS, as soon as i picked it up it ran the same and threw the same code.Im not sure if im just out of tune or if i have another problem. Or should i try to find a 4.6 harness and put it on and plug the IMTV in?
I have a EDGE and didnt know if anyone out there did a mail tune since PHP does not offer them anymore. I guess if nothing else ill just have to sell the edge and get a SCT from Vamp. Just trying to figure out if that'll even take care of it.
Thanks for any input
I have a 2000 f150 i recently did the 5.4 swap on. I used a 99 expedition as my donor, i swapped the engine and engine harness. My problem is: im getting the p1549 code and truck runs crappy. It runs but just seems really doggy, not a great idle , and the power seems to fade in and out etc. I know that i can't plug in the IMTV because i used the 5.4 harness. I also couldnt use the computer from the exp. because i have 4r70w and it didnt. I tried a junkyard computer from a 00 f150 with a 5.4 but had to have it taken to ford because of the PATS, as soon as i picked it up it ran the same and threw the same code.Im not sure if im just out of tune or if i have another problem. Or should i try to find a 4.6 harness and put it on and plug the IMTV in?
I have a EDGE and didnt know if anyone out there did a mail tune since PHP does not offer them anymore. I guess if nothing else ill just have to sell the edge and get a SCT from Vamp. Just trying to figure out if that'll even take care of it.
Thanks for any input
#219
06-07-2013, 05:33 PM
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So the Summit Block came in to the shop and everything looks good except the right bank has a 10.075" Deck Height and the left bank has a 10.085" deck height.
So Im back to the ordering stage again. Ordering and waiting on the machine shop is crazy. Glad Im not in a hurry.
Anyway I ordered a rotating assembly from ModMax http://www.modmaxracing.com/product_p/99025254.htm
I got the 0cc Manley 2V Forged Pistons, stainless steel rings, H-Beam rods with ARP 2000 bolts, and the $250 balancing. I hope the balancing works out. My machine shop says they never do a good job, but you never know who to listen to as I'm sure hes pissed I didnt pay the $400 he wanted to charge me to balance.
Anyway, so I expect the rotating assembly to arrive in 2 weeks and then I can think about the top end...
I know I havent sent pictures yet, but at this point all I have is an empty new block from Ford Racing.
I'll update with some pics of the ratating assembly and short block when they get here.
So Im back to the ordering stage again. Ordering and waiting on the machine shop is crazy. Glad Im not in a hurry.
Anyway I ordered a rotating assembly from ModMax http://www.modmaxracing.com/product_p/99025254.htm
I got the 0cc Manley 2V Forged Pistons, stainless steel rings, H-Beam rods with ARP 2000 bolts, and the $250 balancing. I hope the balancing works out. My machine shop says they never do a good job, but you never know who to listen to as I'm sure hes pissed I didnt pay the $400 he wanted to charge me to balance.
Anyway, so I expect the rotating assembly to arrive in 2 weeks and then I can think about the top end...
I know I havent sent pictures yet, but at this point all I have is an empty new block from Ford Racing.
I'll update with some pics of the ratating assembly and short block when they get here.
#220
06-07-2013, 07:14 PM
#221
06-13-2013, 01:57 PM
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Ok Need some help here.
The rotating assembly is being balanced and I am still waiting on it to arrive. I decided to get the 44cc Trick Flow Track Heat 185 Top End kit Part Number TFS-K520-380-375. It comes with all the stuff for the top end - like 125lb springs, cams, bolts, gaskets, etc. I also asked Trick Flow to swap the 4.6 timing stuff for the 5.4L timing stuff.
Heres my current problem, I asked both Ford Racking (supplied block) and Trick Flow (supplied top end) where to get an intake manfold and they both said they didnt know. Trick flow makes one for the mustang but it runs the RPM range up too high, the throttle body comes out the left side instead of straight out, and the intake runners are way shorter than a Triton intake. I found another one at Edelbroch and it has the same problems. Other than the Dorman one at Rock Auto is there another option for less than the $800 one lited on this site ( http://hiperformancesolutions.com/54.html )? This one has not even been made yet. They are trying to get enough orders to cast it, and why is it $800 instead of $300?
The Dorman says it will only work with thier gaskets and Trick flow says to use thier gaskets supplied. However, one set is O-Ring and one is a regular gasket as far as I can tell..
Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
The rotating assembly is being balanced and I am still waiting on it to arrive. I decided to get the 44cc Trick Flow Track Heat 185 Top End kit Part Number TFS-K520-380-375. It comes with all the stuff for the top end - like 125lb springs, cams, bolts, gaskets, etc. I also asked Trick Flow to swap the 4.6 timing stuff for the 5.4L timing stuff.
Heres my current problem, I asked both Ford Racking (supplied block) and Trick Flow (supplied top end) where to get an intake manfold and they both said they didnt know. Trick flow makes one for the mustang but it runs the RPM range up too high, the throttle body comes out the left side instead of straight out, and the intake runners are way shorter than a Triton intake. I found another one at Edelbroch and it has the same problems. Other than the Dorman one at Rock Auto is there another option for less than the $800 one lited on this site ( http://hiperformancesolutions.com/54.html )? This one has not even been made yet. They are trying to get enough orders to cast it, and why is it $800 instead of $300?
The Dorman says it will only work with thier gaskets and Trick flow says to use thier gaskets supplied. However, one set is O-Ring and one is a regular gasket as far as I can tell..
Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
Last edited by Sullivaf; 06-13-2013 at 02:01 PM.
#222
06-14-2013, 01:16 PM
Hello folks! I'm new to the group and have committed to the insanity of one of these engine swaps. I have a 1999 Windsor lightning block dropped into my 1997 F150 4X4. I am not worried about the exhaust because I have access to a bender and am quite proficient welding stainless steel tube. What does worry me is all of the little odds and ends, what plugs into what and what components to buy to throw on the motor. The word descriptions are helpful, but it occurs to me that photos would be infinitely superior. For example, I'm not exactly sure what it means to "relocate the IAC Harness to the rear of the throttle body elbow". Part of my problem lies in the fact that I was fortunate to have our community college Ford ASSET program students do the engine swap for me. Their dealership experience made the tight fit of the new motor look easy (even with the headers on the motor) but THEY Unhooked all of the wires, tubes and gizmos from both motors, not me. That Leads me to the down side which is that I have no recollection of where everything should go (!) I am no stranger to engine building (even though I teach Welding), and I Don't expect any issues bolting the big stuff back on. But it is the little things that make the motor run right, And I am quite blessed indeed to have you good folks in this forum helping me figure this out along the way. Thank you ahead of time for your patience. I will be asking a lot of questions…
Rick Walters
Rick Walters
Notes for 4.6 to 5.4 swap Part 1 [B]Revised 28 January 2011[
Application: These notes cover the F-150 from 1997 to 2004 Heritage model years.
Cylinder Heads: The following info applies to the F-150 and not any other vehicle engine.
4.6 Engine: The 4.6 engine had Non Pi Heads from 1997 to 2000. The Pi heads were introduced to this engine for the 2001 model year.
5.4 Engine: The 5.4 engine had Non Pi Heads from 1997 to 1998. The Pi heads were introduced to this engine for the 1999 model year.
Exhaust: The collectors on the exhaust manifolds are set at different angles and locations. The 4.6 exhaust might not bolt up to 5.4 manifold. You may need to have a muffler shop modify your 4.6 exhaust to match up.
Ignition: All 5.4 engines use Cop ignition. . 2000 and later 4.6 use COP ignition. 1997-99 4.6 engines use coil packs. It is easier to wire your 5.4 using the harness from the 4.6 and use the 4.6 ignition coil packs if applicable. If you use the 4.6 Coil pack ignition you will have to fab a bracket for the driver side coil pack.
Engine harness: To use a 4.6 PCM to run a 5.4 engine: The IAC harness must be relocated to the rear of the throttle body elbow. The oil sender wire on the 4.6 may be too short so measure or test fit the harness to see if it must be extended. All 97-00 and some 2001 4.6 engines use some sort of intake manifold runner control valve. Remove it from the 4.6 and plug it into the 4.6 harness and bolt it to the engine some where out of the way. Note; you can get a tune to remove its function and eliminate it all together.
All 97-98 4.6 engines use an Engine Coolant Temp sensor (ECT) and an Engine Coolant Temp sender. By the 99 Model year the ECT was dropped in both the 4.6 and 5.4 harness as the Cylinder Head Temperature sensor (CHT) was used for the PCM to monitor coolant temps. None of the 00+ 5.4s use ECT sensor or sender. Some of the 99 5.4s still use the sender to feed info to the instrument cluster. You will have to tap the intake manifold crossover pipe to fit the sensor(s) if your 4.6 has them and the 5.4 doesn’t.
Transmissions: the 4.6 and 5.4 have the same bellhousing bolt pattern. That means that all the transmissions will bolt up. All the 5.4 engines have 8 bolt crankshafts. Some 4.6 engines (ROMEO ENGINE) have 6 bolt cranks. You will need the flex plate from the 5.4.
Manual transmissions: If you don’t have an 8 bolt flywheel a flywheel from a 1997-8 4.6 Windsor engine will work. As it has 8 bolts it will bolt right up to the 5.4 crank. Remove the flex plate spacer and install a pilot bearing from a 4.6.
Special note about the different automatic transmissions and their respective harnesses. You cannot run a 4R100 transmission with a PCM that had a 4R70W transmission and vice versa. The transmission harnesses are different and will not plug into the different engine bay harness. The control functions in the PCM are not compatible so the transmission will not function properly.
Torque Converters:
4R70W
ENGINE............Stall Speed............Multiplication
4.2..................1978-2330...............2.3:1
4.6..................2105-2505...............2.3:1
5.4..................1830-2190...............1.9:1
4R100
All Engines......??????....................2.2:1
If you swap a 5.4 into a 4.6 engine bay and use the 4.6 converter you will multiply the 5.4's torque at a higher rate and at a higher stall speed which will put the torque at the transmission input shaft close to the limit if not over the limit of the 4R70W. The 99+ 5.4 produces 350 ft/lbs of torque. 90% of that is available at 2000 rpm. The stall speed of the 4.6 is above the 2000 rpm range so more than 90% is available. 350 ft/lbs x 2.3(4.6 multiplier) x 90% is 724.5 ft/lbs.
Application: These notes cover the F-150 from 1997 to 2004 Heritage model years.
Cylinder Heads: The following info applies to the F-150 and not any other vehicle engine.
4.6 Engine: The 4.6 engine had Non Pi Heads from 1997 to 2000. The Pi heads were introduced to this engine for the 2001 model year.
5.4 Engine: The 5.4 engine had Non Pi Heads from 1997 to 1998. The Pi heads were introduced to this engine for the 1999 model year.
Exhaust: The collectors on the exhaust manifolds are set at different angles and locations. The 4.6 exhaust might not bolt up to 5.4 manifold. You may need to have a muffler shop modify your 4.6 exhaust to match up.
Ignition: All 5.4 engines use Cop ignition. . 2000 and later 4.6 use COP ignition. 1997-99 4.6 engines use coil packs. It is easier to wire your 5.4 using the harness from the 4.6 and use the 4.6 ignition coil packs if applicable. If you use the 4.6 Coil pack ignition you will have to fab a bracket for the driver side coil pack.
Engine harness: To use a 4.6 PCM to run a 5.4 engine: The IAC harness must be relocated to the rear of the throttle body elbow. The oil sender wire on the 4.6 may be too short so measure or test fit the harness to see if it must be extended. All 97-00 and some 2001 4.6 engines use some sort of intake manifold runner control valve. Remove it from the 4.6 and plug it into the 4.6 harness and bolt it to the engine some where out of the way. Note; you can get a tune to remove its function and eliminate it all together.
All 97-98 4.6 engines use an Engine Coolant Temp sensor (ECT) and an Engine Coolant Temp sender. By the 99 Model year the ECT was dropped in both the 4.6 and 5.4 harness as the Cylinder Head Temperature sensor (CHT) was used for the PCM to monitor coolant temps. None of the 00+ 5.4s use ECT sensor or sender. Some of the 99 5.4s still use the sender to feed info to the instrument cluster. You will have to tap the intake manifold crossover pipe to fit the sensor(s) if your 4.6 has them and the 5.4 doesn’t.
Transmissions: the 4.6 and 5.4 have the same bellhousing bolt pattern. That means that all the transmissions will bolt up. All the 5.4 engines have 8 bolt crankshafts. Some 4.6 engines (ROMEO ENGINE) have 6 bolt cranks. You will need the flex plate from the 5.4.
Manual transmissions: If you don’t have an 8 bolt flywheel a flywheel from a 1997-8 4.6 Windsor engine will work. As it has 8 bolts it will bolt right up to the 5.4 crank. Remove the flex plate spacer and install a pilot bearing from a 4.6.
Special note about the different automatic transmissions and their respective harnesses. You cannot run a 4R100 transmission with a PCM that had a 4R70W transmission and vice versa. The transmission harnesses are different and will not plug into the different engine bay harness. The control functions in the PCM are not compatible so the transmission will not function properly.
Torque Converters:
4R70W
ENGINE............Stall Speed............Multiplication
4.2..................1978-2330...............2.3:1
4.6..................2105-2505...............2.3:1
5.4..................1830-2190...............1.9:1
4R100
All Engines......??????....................2.2:1
If you swap a 5.4 into a 4.6 engine bay and use the 4.6 converter you will multiply the 5.4's torque at a higher rate and at a higher stall speed which will put the torque at the transmission input shaft close to the limit if not over the limit of the 4R70W. The 99+ 5.4 produces 350 ft/lbs of torque. 90% of that is available at 2000 rpm. The stall speed of the 4.6 is above the 2000 rpm range so more than 90% is available. 350 ft/lbs x 2.3(4.6 multiplier) x 90% is 724.5 ft/lbs.
#223
06-14-2013, 01:48 PM
Hello folks! I'm new to the group and have committed to the insanity of one of these engine swaps. I have a 1999 Windsor lightning block dropped into my 1997 F150 4X4. I am not worried about the exhaust because I have access to a bender and am quite proficient welding stainless steel tube. What does worry me is all of the little odds and ends, what plugs into what and what components to buy to throw on the motor. The word descriptions are helpful, but it occurs to me that photos would be infinitely superior. For example, I'm not exactly sure what it means to "relocate the IAC Harness to the rear of the throttle body elbow". Part of my problem lies in the fact that I was fortunate to have our community college Ford ASSET program students do the engine swap for me. Their dealership experience made the tight fit of the new motor look easy (even with the headers on the motor) but THEY Unhooked all of the wires, tubes and gizmos from both motors, not me. That Leads me to the down side which is that I have no recollection of where everything should go (!) I am no stranger to engine building (even though I teach Welding), and I Don't expect any issues bolting the big stuff back on. But it is the little things that make the motor run right, And I am quite blessed indeed to have you good folks in this forum helping me figure this out along the way. Thank you ahead of time for your patience. I will be asking a lot of questions… I am including my phone number for anyone who would like to call and say hi. Thanks ahead of time, and I'm sorry I dumped all of this in the wrong spot earlier. I'm not used to this phone app, and I treated it like a reply on Windows email (whoops!) Hope I got it right this time!
Rick Walters
503-475-5831
Rick Walters
503-475-5831
#224
06-14-2013, 02:11 PM
#225
06-18-2013, 09:40 PM
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Heads Arrived
Ok so I'm still waiting on the rotating assembly to arrive. I got the Trick Flow 185 Track Heat heads in today. Heres some pics in comparison to my old heads.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l..._New_Heads.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...NewChamber.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...OldChamber.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...low_Intake.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...-PI_Intake.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...-PI_Intake.jpg
Anyone have any thoughts on the intake?
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l..._New_Heads.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...NewChamber.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...OldChamber.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...low_Intake.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...-PI_Intake.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...-PI_Intake.jpg
Anyone have any thoughts on the intake?