Good 5 channel?
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From: Slidell, LA
Theres also a huge side of this Chris that you havent seen. In SPL comps they take the LISTED RMS @ 4ohms and make amp groupings based on that. Think of an amp that puts out 175w when listed at 5.... The classes will be dramatically different.
Also, at some SQ comps if the classes are too big, they are split the same way.
Also, at some SQ comps if the classes are too big, they are split the same way.
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Well......
I still contend that Zuki is seriously hurting themselves in the marketing dept. At the "very least" they need to put some ratings in parenthesis, that more correctly align their amps against most others, so that people can more easily compare thier amps with more popular brands.
Peace,
Fish
PS, Somebody needs to build an amp capable of putting out 20K watts..... then rate it at 2 wts RMS, at .001 % distortion, at a 1volt imput. So, it would be in the lowest wattage class for comps, and win the show every time. Sounds stupid, doesn't it ? That's because it is.
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Oh hey Low_E, on a completely unrelated note;
I totally agree with the thing in your sig > If ported, always tune to CRF 33Hz... aka the Golden Number <
I had tried for 30 hz, because that's what my sub manufacturer recommended. Then, for a couple reasons that are too long and complicated to go into here, I think I accidentally got it a bit lower than that, even ! Like 28hz.... or even 27hz... and my subsonic filter kicks in at 28hz !
So, the night before last, we shortened the port by about 3 inches + took up about .2 cubes of airspace, effectively raising my tuning by about 5hz, to very close to 33hz.... and Bam ! SOOO much more musical, with no apparent loss on the lowest notes :-) Whooo Hoo ! :-)
Peace,
Fish
PS, Somebody needs to build an amp capable of putting out 20K watts..... then rate it at 2 wts RMS, at .001 % distortion, at a 1volt imput. So, it would be in the lowest wattage class for comps, and win the show every time. Sounds stupid, doesn't it ? That's because it is.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh hey Low_E, on a completely unrelated note;
I totally agree with the thing in your sig > If ported, always tune to CRF 33Hz... aka the Golden Number <
I had tried for 30 hz, because that's what my sub manufacturer recommended. Then, for a couple reasons that are too long and complicated to go into here, I think I accidentally got it a bit lower than that, even ! Like 28hz.... or even 27hz... and my subsonic filter kicks in at 28hz !
So, the night before last, we shortened the port by about 3 inches + took up about .2 cubes of airspace, effectively raising my tuning by about 5hz, to very close to 33hz.... and Bam ! SOOO much more musical, with no apparent loss on the lowest notes :-) Whooo Hoo ! :-)
Last edited by Fish Chris; Apr 3, 2009 at 11:28 AM.
Technical Article Contributor
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From: Northern California
I still contend that Zuki is seriously hurting themselves in the marketing dept. At the "very least" they need to put some ratings in parenthesis, that more correctly align their amps against most others, so that people can more easily compare thier amps with more popular brands.
Peace,
Fish
Peace,
Fish
The owners of Zuki dont want a bunch of people buying these amplifiers just to clip the crap out of them, break them, then try to make claims on warranty. Clearly, only the people who know what they are doing will buy these amplifiers...and they will get used how they are supposed to. It is a very small company, and I think they intend to keep it that way. In this market, it seems the larger a company gets, the more the quality level goes down (for the most part).
Frankly, I love it when random people come to me and ask "hey, what are you running in your system?" and I get to say "nothing you've ever heard of."
Last edited by mSaLL150; Apr 3, 2009 at 01:06 PM.
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From: ohio
thd
Fish,
Read up on what a THD rating is. It is distortion rating. Your RF amp is probably benched at 1% THD. The Zuki amp is benched at .05% THD, hence the low power ratings. When benched at 1% THD, the front 4 channels of the Zuki Eleets put out 175 watts x4 at 4ohm. Which will in fact, "blow away" your 111 x4. And not only is it very powerful, but the sound is unbelievable. The music is so lively. There is a member from DIYMA in Sac who runs Zuki amps, which is where I heard them. Read this review about their power output:
http://www.soundbuggy.com/Eric/Car%2...nel/index.html
This is where the car audio marketing scam comes into play. Mainstream companies love to slap huge numbers on the box of their poorly built products, knowing that the dumbfounded customer will buy the "highest wattage" item. Yet in reality, its the truly high quality equipment that is properly built and benched that perform the best. So to the Average Joe, the Zuki rating system looks retarded...but to true audiophiles, it makes perfect sense. And this, Fish, is why not many people own Zuki amps.
Not knocking your amp Fish, its a nice piece of equipment for what you paid. I'm just saying dont judge a product by its numbers....kind of like dont judge a book by your cover. I have heard the RF amps, and the Zukis....and to be honest, they aren't even in the same league. The Zukis are far better than the amps I use too.
-mSaLL
PS: imagine the power the SPL extreme model does at 1%...it is rated 125w @ .05% THD 4ohm.
Read up on what a THD rating is. It is distortion rating. Your RF amp is probably benched at 1% THD. The Zuki amp is benched at .05% THD, hence the low power ratings. When benched at 1% THD, the front 4 channels of the Zuki Eleets put out 175 watts x4 at 4ohm. Which will in fact, "blow away" your 111 x4.
And not only is it very powerful, but the sound is unbelievable. The music is so lively. There is a member from DIYMA in Sac who runs Zuki amps, which is where I heard them. Read this review about their power output:http://www.soundbuggy.com/Eric/Car%2...nel/index.html
This is where the car audio marketing scam comes into play. Mainstream companies love to slap huge numbers on the box of their poorly built products, knowing that the dumbfounded customer will buy the "highest wattage" item. Yet in reality, its the truly high quality equipment that is properly built and benched that perform the best. So to the Average Joe, the Zuki rating system looks retarded...but to true audiophiles, it makes perfect sense. And this, Fish, is why not many people own Zuki amps.
Not knocking your amp Fish, its a nice piece of equipment for what you paid. I'm just saying dont judge a product by its numbers....kind of like dont judge a book by your cover. I have heard the RF amps, and the Zukis....and to be honest, they aren't even in the same league. The Zukis are far better than the amps I use too.
-mSaLL
PS: imagine the power the SPL extreme model does at 1%...it is rated 125w @ .05% THD 4ohm.
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From: Northern California
Just looking at the build quality and the components in the JL amp tells me it doesn't compare. Zuki is more on the level of McIntosh, Audison, Tru, Zapco etc.
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Hey mSaLL....
Fish,
The owners of Zuki dont want a bunch of people buying these amplifiers just to clip the crap out of them, break them, then try to make claims on warranty. Clearly, only the people who know what they are doing will buy these amplifiers...and they will get used how they are supposed to. It is a very small company, and I think they intend to keep it that way. In this market, it seems the larger a company gets, the more the quality level goes down (for the most part).
The owners of Zuki dont want a bunch of people buying these amplifiers just to clip the crap out of them, break them, then try to make claims on warranty. Clearly, only the people who know what they are doing will buy these amplifiers...and they will get used how they are supposed to. It is a very small company, and I think they intend to keep it that way. In this market, it seems the larger a company gets, the more the quality level goes down (for the most part).
If your trying to keep a small company small, and market your products to a "select group of audio purists", then their is no reason they should not be asking 3 X's as much $$$ for the products they are producing. If the products truly are a cut above everything else on the market, then they should be absolutely woirth it to the audio purist gurus we are talking about.......
Shouldn't they ?
Heck, any marketer should know, that their is always a certain % of guys who will buy a product > just because < it's the most expensive, add that # to the audio gurus who just want the best, at any price, and BAM ! Your actually making a good living in 2009 ! And if it starts to get a little "too popular", you just bump the price up a little more. {see side story below}
Hmmmm,
Fish
PS, Your right that my > 111 wts RMS x 4ch @ 4ohms, is at 1% distortion. However, I believe that the much more conservative rating of 50 wts RMS x 4ch @ 4ohms, is rated at .05%, just like the JL, and the Zuki.
Again, I'm not trying to say that my RF amp is "better" than the Zuki's your talking about..... But I am saying that even the whole thing about super conservative ratings doesn't fully explain everything.
{side story ;-)
Okay, so their is this fish art guy who does fiberglass replicas from So Cal. IMPO, he is one of the best, if not "the best" fish art guy on the planet, especially for trophy Largemouths. This guys work is just SOOO bad-***. Problem is, everyone knows it ! He's so swamped with business, you can hardly ever even catch him by phone. And if you ever do get a deal set up, it takes him FOREVER to complete a project !
But here's the stupid part. For his absolutely amazing artwork, he charges the standard rate, if not slightly lower, than you would expect to pay for mediocre work !
I asked him once, "Dude ! Why don't you charge 2 or 3 X's what you do ? Your work is worth it ! And I guarantee you, guys who know the difference would pay it ! Plus then, maybe you could finally keep up with the workflow !
To which he replies, "Yea.... I know. I probably could. I just want to be fair, and keep it cheap enough that anybody can own some of my art work.
Uhhhhh...... Okay. But I think people > would also be happy < if you ever had a chance to answer the phone..... and to complete a job before they died of old age !
Hmmmm. Some peoples marketing practices.... I just don't get it.
Last edited by Fish Chris; Apr 4, 2009 at 12:52 PM.
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From: Northern California
Like I said Fish, numbers are numbers. Hell, Zapco rates their amps with quite conservative numbers yet their amps are some of the best sounding and most powerful on the market.
You really need to hear the musical reproduction that these different amplifiers are capable of to really compare them to each other.
You really need to hear the musical reproduction that these different amplifiers are capable of to really compare them to each other.
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From: Seabrook,NH
I think Patrick was smart coming up with the 5W rating. It has gotten many people to talk about the amp for more than a year. If he had just said the Zuki Eleets was a 200W amp it wouldn't have got so much attention. It is not a magic amp. It appears to be well built without a lot of flash. I like it. I would like to hear one.
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From: Austin
How do you like it? Im thinking of getting that one as well. Has great specs for what im doing. Plus wiring only up 1 amp is nice to save on wiring and time.
