Being an Engineer myself, and somewhat of a gearhead I can relate to your questions, but maybe not your motive.
My statements are based only on dyno proven facts as to the performance of the open element intakes versus the closed systems I have been involved with. Until I personally witness a closed box type CAI outperform an open element type, I will cling to the facts, and to my opinion....

 

I emailed yall guys last week, and never got a response? Im just wondering if you have more pics of the sb setup for the f150? I was lookin into yall guys or the volant, I ruled out banks due to the price.

 

i see it as company a-b-c or d are going to say that there product is the best. and all pewople that have that are going to sing there praises. as they should. a dyno is a wonderful tuning tool. a dyno will tell the most power givin for each mod. each will work for there special purpose. which ever intake someone gets be happy with it as it is way better than stock.

 

You can always email me instead. I'm trying to avoid having a rush of spam coming into my account, so I'll avoid putting my entire address here. The address you previously sent your question to was info - @ - sbfilter.net (obviously remove the spaces and dashes). Just change the "info" in that address to "jcrouch" and it will go directly to me.

I'll post more pictures either today or Monday.

Thanks!

 

hey thanks knuckleuppunk!

 

Marc,

Thanks for the reply. Please trust me when I tell you that there is no motive behind my initial reply other then to correct the information in your post. It wasn't a personal attack of any kind, so hopefully you didn't take it that way.

If you would have narrowed your comment down to only the manufacturers you mentioned in your post, then I would have agreed with you. My response came after reading your statement that all open element systems will out perform all closed element systems. That isn't a true statement, so I had to respond. Again, it wasn't a personal attack against you.

I also disagree with relying on dyno results as well. The reason why you can't depend on dyno results is the simple fact that there is no internationally accepted standardized procedure for lab testing with a dyno. I'll bet you $1,000 CASH that you can't get repeatable results on the dyno using 5 pulls in a row. I'm not even asking for the results to be repeated a day ot two later, I'm allowing the pull to be one right after the other. There is no tolerance in the results either - I mean exact numbers.

The one simple fact is the inability to get the exact same results pull after pull just proves that the results can be skewed. You know as well as I do that correction factors can be fudged, using the incorrect gear will skew the results, all the temps related to the vehicle must remain constant, and so on. I have seen dyno results move around +/- 5hp between dyno pulls without any changes at all. Do the those facts alone, nobody can truly rely on dyno results for accurate lab data.

All of the testing we perform is done our own climate controlled ISO 5011 test stand. We spent over $150k on the climate control system for the lab alone! This allows us to control the temps within the room to half of a degree and the humidity within 1%! You can take a filter or an intake system that we tested 2 months ago and put it back on our test stand and get the same exact results as before. This is why every OEM requires that their filters are tested to the ISO 5011 standards and maintain a 99%+ efficiency rating before they become OE on their vehicles.

The first and most important job of the air filter and/or intake system is to protect your engine, plain and simple. If the filter and/or intake manufacturer doesn't test AND publish certified ISO 5011 results, then I would really think twice before spending my money on a product that might not protect my engine.

I am not saying that we do not dyno test our systems, but rather that we only publish test data that is lab certified to be accurate and irrefutable. The ISO 5011 test data we publish shows the CFM the test was conducted at, the capacity of the filter, the efficiency of the filter, and the reduction in restriction as well.

In short, you really can't beat certified ISO 5011 test results. The test results will clearly show airflow improvements and the efficiency rating of the filter and/or intake system tested beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I am sure that there will be more questions concerning ISO 5011 testing, so I'll do my best to answer everything I can.

Cheers!

 

wow. you dont rely on dyno results. ok. well that is what we all rely on imo. if it doesnt show up on a dyno on our truck then to me it isnt worth it. you can make all the claims in the world even if you spent $10 million on the flow bench. that flow bench is not my truck. just my 02$

 

knuckleuppunk,

I don't see your CAI - the one you posted on your truck, 5.4L 3V F150 - on your webpage?

What's up with that?

 

http://www.sbfilters.com/product_display.php?id=2899

 

Thank you.

 

BTW, brilliant installation instructions with real-life pics.

 

I had an AF1 on my Dodge (I know, bad word here) and loved it. Sounded, looked, and felt good.

My retail store isn't a hard core performance shop...but we do stock some air intakes. We installed two different AEM Brute Force systems this week. One, yesterday morning, was on a 2007 5.4L FX4. The install was smooth, the piece was great looking (polished), and I really liked the dry-flow filter that requires no oiling. I also liked the housing that went around the filter and seals off with the hood. The sound was nice, the customer could feel the difference, and was happy as can be. That pretty much echoes the results for the other one we installed this week, which was on an older model Ford.

That's all I know about AEM thus far, but I may very well put an AEM on my 5.4L when time and money allows.

 

Can AEM provide you with ISO 5011 test results for the intake system specific to your application? If not, I'd ask why not! If they do have it, please post the results. Also - make sure the ISO 5011 testing was conducted at the MAX rated CFM level for your application.

A common trick is to test the filter and/or intake system at a low CFM level and then only publish the efficiency rating without all the other data to back it up. We run all of our tests to 150% of the rated CFM for each specific application. The more air & dirt a filter is subjected to, the harder it is for that filter to efficiently stop the dirt. This is why a filter that tests great for efficiency at 160 CFM will not fair as well when tested at 450 CFM, etc..

All of our test results are posted on our site for each application. You can download the exact lab tests results online in PDF format. Each test result is usually 3 to 5 pages long and the complete details of the test, including the CFM level that the product was tested at, is included for you to review.

In other words, our test results provide you with all of the information that you would need to make an informed decision about out products. If you do decide to purchase a different brand, then just make sure they provide you with the proper ISO 5011 test data to prove that their product does what they claim.

This information should make one think twice about purchasing a product from a company that either doesn't test to these standards or doesn't share the test results with the public. Don't worry though, there will soon be a website that will handle this for everyone. It is called www.truthaboutfilters.com and it is going to change the face of the filter and intake market for ever!

 

Thanks for the reply.

First, I never said that we do not dyno test our products. If fact, we do dyno test our systems to back up the results we find in our lab. We do not publish the power numbers because there is no certified testing procedure for actual dyno testing. If I were to publish a power number, I expect to be able to repeat that power number at anytime and it just can't be done with dyno testing. If I did publish an exact power gain and those gains could not be duplicated, then I could be found liable for a false advertising. This is why some companies say "up to" and "gains of 12+hp", etc... They know that the power numbers they provide can't be reproduced, so the claim must be vague. There will never be an exact number given for power gains when dyno results are used. This is why you should think twice before relying only on the dyno results provided by a manufacturer.

On the other hand, our ISO 5011 test lab can produce certified results run after run after run, plus provide you with exact lab tested performance results. I can test a product a year from now and it will still have the same result as it does today. You can ask any engineer or scientist and they'll tell you that repeatable test results are the only way to accurately design and/or review any product. If you have test results that were obtained with uncontrolled variables, then the numbers will never work out correctly.

Just to show you that we do dyno test our products, the following is a link to a dyno test performed on a new Mustang. The testing was done by 5.0 Magazine and not be S&B Filters. Pay close attention to the fains in mid-range power. In a previous post I had mentioned that controlling air velocity is one key to producing power. We tune each system to maximize mid-range torque, as this is where you'll spend most of your time driving or when you get ready to pass. This all equals faster acceleration, crisp throttle response, and better fuel economy.

The nice thing about our Mustang kit is that is one of the true Mustang intakes that make power and does not require a tuner to avoid check engine lights. We have a very strong relationship with Ford and we use that relationship to our advantage with every Ford product we manufacture. I guess we've learned a thing or two in our last 30 years of business.

Again - Purchasing a specific intake system is 100% your choice and everyone can make their own decision. I am merely providing you with more tools that you can use to make an informed decision before your next purchase. I really don't care which system you buy, just make sure you have all of the information needed before you make a purchase...especially when it comes to replacing a part on your truck that is designed to PROTECT it.

Dyno Test Results

Cheers!

 

Thanks!

We're going even one step further though. I can't say exactly what we're doing at this time, but keep checking back on the instructions over the next week or so. Our plan is to eliminate all installation questions with a simple click and a few minutes of your time on the computer.

More to come...