If I were any calmer, I would be dead.

If you look back, I never said I did not trust or want electronics in vehicles. I said I understood where Timmy was coming from and that I too did not feel the need to be the first to own something just because it was the "latest and greatest" because the marketing gurus said it was.

 

I took it as you were getting pretty wound up too. I'm not really trying to stir the pot just figure out why people are so adverse to some electronics but not others. I don't see anyone wanting to replace their electric starter with a hand crank.

Here's how I see it. The previous gold standard on selectable lockers was the ARB air locker. This was a pneumatic system overlaid with electrical controls. This system uses an electrical air compressor to fill air lines and use operate a pneumatic actuator to lock the dif. It is controlled via and electrical switch. Anyone who has been around this system know it works great, when it works...

The e-locker uses a switch, some wire and an electrical actuator. Which system sounds like the more complicated one? Plus, it's really not that new. Eaton had e-lockers on the market over 10 years ago.

 

Now, I look at it this way - a limited slip has clutches which are wear items - an e-locker has no wear items other than what's found in all differentials.

 

You still seem to be missing the point of my original post. I was not posting concerning my position of electronic rear end. Heck, my truck has one. I was simply defending Timmy's right to not want one, if he so chooses. I was using my own feelings towards new things in the market as an example. I chose to buy a 2014 so I would not be forced to buy a 2015. I spend all the free time I can on my farm. I live in the country and am attempting to move farther into the country. I prefer the slow life in small towns. I still have rabbit ears on my TVs. My cell is an iPhone 4. You get the picture?

Just thought of some more. My favorite Fords have been the 65 and 66 Mustangs I restored and one of of all time favorite vehicles is the 39-41 ******. Make the most fantastic hot rods.

 

Yep.



MGD

 

The point I was trying to make is that I and anyone else that have no interest in owning the latest and hottest gizmos and would prefer to wait till they have proven themselves should be able to express that position without being slammed.

Hey, I would much prefer Jed Clampitt's lifestyle than most of those in today's society.

 

Right there with ya Jim. Not into the fancy stuff either.

 

My question is why is some tech ok and some not? It's sorta a touchy subject since if things stop improving a whole bunch of engineers will be in the unemployment line and I would rather stay employed.

 

I really don't know how to make it any plainer than I already have. I have no problem with technology. I just don't feel the need to have the very latest things just because advertisers tell me I need it or should want it. I would rather wait till the bugs have been cleared before buying. Also, I don't feel the need to replace something that still gets the job done just because there is something that can do it better. That is, not unless it would benefit me. Just thought of another example, kept a 1982 Olds 98 for 18 years till it had 100,000.

Of course, someone like me can not fathom standing in line overnight to buy the latest cell phone coming out, my 3 year old iPhone 4 does everything I need. When it quits, I'll replace it with whatever has been out long enough to have proven itself and not cost the premium price.

 

The latest and greatest things are not always good. Like I said...we are the guinea pigs. Look at the XBOX 1....first shipment works good...then an update comes out and a bunch of systems fail instantly turning them into brand new $500 plastic boxes. And that's coming from Microsoft who has been making computers and software for years but they can't even get an update right? Or the predecessor xbox360 having the red ring of death....same deal...been around for years and couldn't get it to stop getting the ring. That's a $500 video game system failing.... How long have these new technologies been tested? How long has the company that made them been making them? Point is that even the leading companies of products have issues figuring out what's wrong after making a flub up or testing long enough. Your truck's e locker could be hand assembled by an employee that just started working there. You think that first one will be assembled as well as an employee that's done 1000? What if you have that guy's first one?

 

Ahhh, Timmy, me boy.

You risk compromising the very premise that ol' Jed is attempting to defend on yer behalf.

Video games, as a class, are rabid, half-baked, 'rush-to-market' technology, which does indeed rely upon the end-user to be beta-testers. And are obsolete as soon as they are released, with the flames of R&D fanned by insatiable gamers driving their evolution. THIS IS NOT NEWS. EVERYONE KNOWS THIS.

Competition fer this segment's market share is among the fiercest in the industry. That means endless, continual updates. Written and performed by .. . human beings.

If you are buying these things you either need to STOP doing so, or stop complaining. What you can't do is, use them in the context of this discussion. Non-sequitur, indeed.

As an aside - these "$500" consoles are a collection of ~$50 worth of parts. Given that, and the endless drooling rabble that line up to buy them - and provide free beta testing - the CEO's are all laffing they aysses off

And remember - yer trucks are also hand-assembled, as are legacy LSD's. Hence that aspect of yer response is rather moot, aight?


MGD

 

Who's rushing out to get the latest and greatest? Nothing in the 2015 F-150 is anywhere close to new or revolutionary in the car world.

-The Eaton E-Locker was released in 2002.

-The Borg Warner bought the K03 turbo design from KKK in 1997. The design for it goes a lot further back.

-Direct Injection was first used in 1907. It was also used on almost every German WW2 aircraft engine. Bosch (who makes the EB system) first made on in 1952. Ford even played with it in the 1970s.

-The first aluminum car body was made in 1899. If you look at performance cars it has been in use a really long time.

So to make the phone comparison, some of the tech in the "revolutionary new F-150" is only ~20 years younger than the first phone! The E-Locker is like bragging about the new face plate you put on your Nokia 6110. The only sorta new thing Ford did with the EB in the truck was mount the turbos lower than the radiator and block to get rid of the after run pump. The difference is the truck market has been stuck in the Stone Age and is just now starting to catch up.

That same thing goes for ANY part on everything you buy. The opposite is also true, someone who has done it for a long time can get complacent and screw it up because he wasn't paying attention. That's why the truck comes with a warranty. FYI, the transfer case on all F-150s uses a similar design to engage the front axle. What is the most common 4x4 failure on out trucks? Not the electrical system but the vacuum lines that control the front hubs. Yup, the Mechanical system has the highest failure rate.

 

True. I'll concede to those.
About the stone age thing....true a lot of cars have power windows and locks on base models while trucks dont. Part of that is the market they are going for...like a 4 door car for instance is aimed at a family so child locks for the rear but hard to do manual locks with that...well they could but it's inconvenient to not have it controlled up front. Truck on the other hand, let's say an f150 XL is aimed at a working market. Probably figure it will almost never have a child in it so they don't power anything. Once you start paying more, you get the extras.

And your part 2, true that can definitely happen. New guy doesn't want to mess it up but guy with 20yrs experience is thinking a few flub ups here and there won't get him fired since he is experienced...

 

Ford assembly of said parts is new. All new robots. Learning curve for body repair of alum bodies. All kinds of learning curves going on. You are happy with your concepts, some of us perceive things a bit differently and are content with it. Just accept that as a fact of human nature.

PS: you still don't get it that I never said squat about an elocker other than I have one. As to direct injection, I will avoid that as long as possible. As for 4x4, never needed it, never had one except in my Kawasaki Mule, and don't intend to.

 

Wow, that got out of hand in a hurry!

A quick comment about the original "example"

Vehicles always need a "reference speed" to know when one (or more) wheels start to slip. Its easy in a 2WD vehicle - the non driven wheels are pretty much always moving at real speed so they are the reference speed. (talking about acceleration / traction control here... braking/ABS is a different story of course)

But when you are in 4WD and on slippery roads and you go WOT you can spin all 4 wheels at the same time. So now how does the truck know how fast it is really moving?

The Traction control tries to "guess" whether your wheels are spinning based on the accelerometer readings, but "guess" is really all it can do because it doesn't know if you are on level ground, going down hill, or going uphill. Those 3 scenarios all provide different accelerometer (the measurement device, not the pedal) readings.

For this reason, traction control in 4WD is very difficult and probably the easiest way to fool your system.

You said you had "slight sideways rotation"... I would guess you were close to kicking in the stability control. But that would depend on what steering input you provided. If the back end really stepped out the stability control would quickly kick in and correct your course. This is more robust since its based on the yaw sensor and steering sensor.

So long story short - the systems probably would have saved you, had you managed to get really out of control. You are still safer with the electronic systems than the old way of doing it.
But don't forget - the safest solution is just to know how to drive.


PS - the electronics will ALWAYS act the same way if you manage to give them the same scenario. Software algorithms will calculate the same response using the same equations. The key here is that your "same things" are never actually the same.