stick shift
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 43,530
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From: Joplin MO
Chuck, let me repeat myself and restate it.
EPA TESTING.
An automatic that complies with emissions regulations will get BETTER gas mileage on the EPA certifications testing than a manual that also complies with emissions regulations. The EPA does NOT measure fuel consumption directly, they run it on a dyno through specific drive cycles and calculate gas mileage through exhaust gas analysis. This is about as far away from real world measured fuel consumption as you can get without just making a wild *** guess as to what it *should* get. These days, a 1 mpg difference in the EPA numbers can make or break a manufacturer due to the CAFE standards.
Also, the tighter the emissions regulations get, the harder it is to build a manual transmission vehicle that has good driveability. Torque converters cushion a LOT of driveability flaws.
EPA TESTING.
An automatic that complies with emissions regulations will get BETTER gas mileage on the EPA certifications testing than a manual that also complies with emissions regulations. The EPA does NOT measure fuel consumption directly, they run it on a dyno through specific drive cycles and calculate gas mileage through exhaust gas analysis. This is about as far away from real world measured fuel consumption as you can get without just making a wild *** guess as to what it *should* get. These days, a 1 mpg difference in the EPA numbers can make or break a manufacturer due to the CAFE standards.
Also, the tighter the emissions regulations get, the harder it is to build a manual transmission vehicle that has good driveability. Torque converters cushion a LOT of driveability flaws.
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,636
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From: Vernon, NY
Originally Posted by glc
Chuck, let me repeat myself and restate it.
EPA TESTING.
An automatic that complies with emissions regulations will get BETTER gas mileage on the EPA certifications testing than a manual that also complies with emissions regulations. The EPA does NOT measure fuel consumption directly, they run it on a dyno through specific drive cycles and calculate gas mileage through exhaust gas analysis. This is about as far away from real world measured fuel consumption as you can get without just making a wild *** guess as to what it *should* get. These days, a 1 mpg difference in the EPA numbers can make or break a manufacturer due to the CAFE standards.
Also, the tighter the emissions regulations get, the harder it is to build a manual transmission vehicle that has good driveability. Torque converters cushion a LOT of driveability flaws.
EPA TESTING.
An automatic that complies with emissions regulations will get BETTER gas mileage on the EPA certifications testing than a manual that also complies with emissions regulations. The EPA does NOT measure fuel consumption directly, they run it on a dyno through specific drive cycles and calculate gas mileage through exhaust gas analysis. This is about as far away from real world measured fuel consumption as you can get without just making a wild *** guess as to what it *should* get. These days, a 1 mpg difference in the EPA numbers can make or break a manufacturer due to the CAFE standards.
Also, the tighter the emissions regulations get, the harder it is to build a manual transmission vehicle that has good driveability. Torque converters cushion a LOT of driveability flaws.
Don't get me wrong, I know they are building great gas mileage automatics.
However, some people just like stick. Just like some like automatics.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 43,530
Likes: 817
From: Joplin MO
Chuck, you and I are a dying breed - people that PREFER sticks. We are willing to put up with the drawbacks to a point to satisfy our preferences. I'd bet over half the kids here couldn't drive a stick if their life depended on it, and I'd also bet there are enough adults here with the same issue that it might be embarrassing.
Don't diss them if you don't know how to drive one or are physically unable to drive one due to a physical handicap. If you know how to drive one but just don't like them for whatever reason, that's fine, that's your opinion and your privilege.
Much as I like and prefer a stick, there are times I wish I had an automatic - rush hour traffic in most big cities is one of those times. I was pissing and moaning last week when I was out on the 405 in LA at the tail end of evening rush hour trying to get back from the Valley to San Diego. By the time I got to Long Beach and things started loosening up, my left leg was getting pretty worn out.
Don't diss them if you don't know how to drive one or are physically unable to drive one due to a physical handicap. If you know how to drive one but just don't like them for whatever reason, that's fine, that's your opinion and your privilege.
Much as I like and prefer a stick, there are times I wish I had an automatic - rush hour traffic in most big cities is one of those times. I was pissing and moaning last week when I was out on the 405 in LA at the tail end of evening rush hour trying to get back from the Valley to San Diego. By the time I got to Long Beach and things started loosening up, my left leg was getting pretty worn out.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 233
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From: wisconsin
Originally Posted by ManualF150
First by past experiences.
Secondly, by tons of research.
But to get to the nitty gritty... I personally, from what I've researched, it's either:
1. Torque converters - 30%
2. Clutch Packs -50%
3. Line Pressure Pumps - 10%
4. Other 10%
I mean this is approximate... but that's from what I've encountered over the past few years just with Ford's automatics.
Secondly, by tons of research.
But to get to the nitty gritty... I personally, from what I've researched, it's either:
1. Torque converters - 30%
2. Clutch Packs -50%
3. Line Pressure Pumps - 10%
4. Other 10%
I mean this is approximate... but that's from what I've encountered over the past few years just with Ford's automatics.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 1
From: spring, texas
Zf6
I think the 3V 4.6L with the ZF6 spd will be a great ride. I still think the Ford gearing is a joke when you consider Toyota is running 3.90 as a STANDARD, 4.10 optional, gearing option in the new tundra with a 5 or 6 spd auto.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 363
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From: pioche, nv
I have burnned up 4 auto trannies in the last 10 years and I have only had 1 stick problem that was on a 1975 f-100. the stick it self just would come out every now and then. you could put it back in and drive away..
and I have owned mostly manuals .
there is a whole lot of stuff in a auto to go wrong.. and anyway you look at it there is a ton of loss. in a gear tranny it is straight drive.
if the 5.4 has a stick that tells me it wouldn't take much work to put it in the f-150
and I have owned mostly manuals .
there is a whole lot of stuff in a auto to go wrong.. and anyway you look at it there is a ton of loss. in a gear tranny it is straight drive.
if the 5.4 has a stick that tells me it wouldn't take much work to put it in the f-150
Last edited by desratt; Feb 26, 2008 at 09:51 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: Maricopa, AZ
Originally Posted by ManualF150
I need to get to reality... Automatics are not as bad as I try to say they are.
But I still like chasing people around saying "I drive stick N U don't!"
But I still like chasing people around saying "I drive stick N U don't!"
and yes you are right automatics are not nearly as bad as you say
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,636
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From: Vernon, NY
Originally Posted by azmidget91
i think someone hacked your account and posted this then made the second comment to make it sound like you
and yes you are right automatics are not nearly as bad as you say
and yes you are right automatics are not nearly as bad as you say
I still don't like automatics... but they are not that bad as I've always said they are.
Sometimes you are just forced in a corner and have to be like the rest.
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Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Originally Posted by ManualF150
No it's me, good ol'e Chuck...
I still don't like automatics... but they are not that bad as I've always said they are.
Sometimes you are just forced in a corner and have to be like the rest.
I still don't like automatics... but they are not that bad as I've always said they are.
Sometimes you are just forced in a corner and have to be like the rest.
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,636
Likes: 264
From: Vernon, NY
Originally Posted by Tbird69
It's not that bad Manual. Join us, once you go auto, you'll never go back!