Changing Spark Plugs
#61
10-17-2005, 09:59 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: BURBANK ILL
Posts: 614
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by silverbullet5.4
What Tschaid says makes very good sense and the pictures reveal alot of useable info. Basically, the plug seizes at the long sleeve protruding into the head. This allows a large portion of steel to aluminum that could, over the process of many heat cycles, seize together. THe plug is obviously not designed to sustain the stresses put on it and it snaps at the weakest point when attempting to remove it. The plug will then screw out and leave the sleeve in the cylinder head. The head will then have to be pulled and the spark plug hammered out from the inside of the combustion chamber, which is why the electrode is missing from the plug in the picture.
Basically, there is a huge portion(about an inch) that leaves room for carbon and heat to cause it to seize. This is a horrible design and I do not foresee a design change for later year models because this is the first we have heard of it. THe tolerances between the sleeve and head seem way too tight to begin with which causes the problem. I wouldnt resinstall the spark plugs if they are seized without remachining the tolerances on the head to prevent the problem again.
Anyone have the ***** to try to change their plugs and let us know the results...atleast anyone with higher miles? The plug is just not designed to have any forces exerted on the part of the plug, which is why it breaks. Maybe before this is said and done with we will all be experts on pulling 5.4 heads, because I will do it myself before I pay $1700.
Basically, there is a huge portion(about an inch) that leaves room for carbon and heat to cause it to seize. This is a horrible design and I do not foresee a design change for later year models because this is the first we have heard of it. THe tolerances between the sleeve and head seem way too tight to begin with which causes the problem. I wouldnt resinstall the spark plugs if they are seized without remachining the tolerances on the head to prevent the problem again.
Anyone have the ***** to try to change their plugs and let us know the results...atleast anyone with higher miles? The plug is just not designed to have any forces exerted on the part of the plug, which is why it breaks. Maybe before this is said and done with we will all be experts on pulling 5.4 heads, because I will do it myself before I pay $1700.
#62
10-17-2005, 10:11 PM
#64
10-17-2005, 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by tschaid
Sivlerbullet,
Damn I wish I still lived in Atlanta ( was there from 92 through 98) We could have gotten together and talked about this over a beer.
I received a little more info today. I went back to the Ford Dealer just to talk about this some more and see if he had any more data. Today, he had a 2005 F150 owned by a local electrical contractor. The truck came in for other maintenance. The Service Manager gave it to the mechanic who handled my truck. The mechanic decided to pull one of the plugs just to satisfy his curiousity. The plug came out fine; however, it showed signs of carbon build up - 16K miles. And it was the same poor plug design. You are absolutely correct. This plug will not stand any force before separating.
Strong advice to F150 truck owners. Don't wait past 20K to pull the plugs and clean them. The carbon cleans away from the plug fairly easily with brake parts cleaner.
Having done most maintenance items myself for the past 25 years, I never believed I would be gun shy about putting a wrench on a plug. In time, this will pass. I was more bothered by not having my truck for 10 days than I was with the cost. Maybe I'm a sucker and should have hammered the dealer more; but, they have done me so many favors over the past four or five years that I simply wrote out the check. Maybe a fool. Maybe not.
Damn I wish I still lived in Atlanta ( was there from 92 through 98) We could have gotten together and talked about this over a beer.
I received a little more info today. I went back to the Ford Dealer just to talk about this some more and see if he had any more data. Today, he had a 2005 F150 owned by a local electrical contractor. The truck came in for other maintenance. The Service Manager gave it to the mechanic who handled my truck. The mechanic decided to pull one of the plugs just to satisfy his curiousity. The plug came out fine; however, it showed signs of carbon build up - 16K miles. And it was the same poor plug design. You are absolutely correct. This plug will not stand any force before separating.
Strong advice to F150 truck owners. Don't wait past 20K to pull the plugs and clean them. The carbon cleans away from the plug fairly easily with brake parts cleaner.
Having done most maintenance items myself for the past 25 years, I never believed I would be gun shy about putting a wrench on a plug. In time, this will pass. I was more bothered by not having my truck for 10 days than I was with the cost. Maybe I'm a sucker and should have hammered the dealer more; but, they have done me so many favors over the past four or five years that I simply wrote out the check. Maybe a fool. Maybe not.
I actually was in Decatur Ill a couple weeks ago and actually will be in St Louis for the next month or so. I live in Atl but dont spend enough time here. Life on the railroad is great.
Anyway, based on your description of a 20k mile plug, I might decide to change these at 15k rather than 30k. Also it would make me feel better to go ahead and just replace the plug while its out, they are fairly cheap anyway. Im hoping by that time Ford will issue some sort of fix for this issue, although Im not sure how without an entire redesign of the head. You would really think that a design flaw such as this wouldnt have left the factory, a testiment to quality assurance I guess. I do feel sorry for the Ford techs because they have no say in the design process yet they are the ones that perform the work.
As far as paying for the work to be done, its better to pay and have someone you trust do it right than cheap out and have to do the work all over again. You made the right decision given the circumstances in my book. Later
Ronnie
#65
10-18-2005, 06:19 PM
I had some extra time this evening, so I pulled a couple plugs from my '04 with 28K miles. I pulled #1 and #5, and they came out tough. They creaked and squeaked and popped for about the first two full turns before spinning out easily. I didn't have my camera with me today, but by the looks of it, I don't think it's carbon that's causing the problem, it's rust. I think the steel insert of the plug is reacting with the aluminum head and corroding. I'll be replacing all eight later this week, and will probably replace 'em in my mom's Expedition at around 20Kish. In the meantime, I wiped the two plugs down I pulled and put a thin coat of dialelectric grease on the insert portion of the plug.
#69
10-18-2005, 06:55 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Murray , Kentucky
Posts: 2,392
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#70
10-18-2005, 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by khendrix2374
Looks like I'm gonna take a trip to the dealer SOON and have them change them all...
I dont wanna break any.. If any break, I want to be their fault.
I dont wanna break any.. If any break, I want to be their fault.
#71
10-18-2005, 07:54 PM
#72
10-18-2005, 08:12 PM
Quintin, how about turning the plug one or two turns out, then spraying a good thread solvent (liquid wrench, CRC, whatever), around the plug and letting it settle for a couple hours?
It would trash the plug from contamination but going to this much work and putting a used plug back in wouldn't make a lot of economic sense anyway.
I sure hope the fix is soon for those affected.
My careful well thought out strategy of buying the proven 4.6 technology is starting to pay dividends.
OK, it was a great price that made me buy it; I didn't know Jack about the two engines as I haven't bought Ford in more than a decade.
Just got lucky, for once.
Chris
It would trash the plug from contamination but going to this much work and putting a used plug back in wouldn't make a lot of economic sense anyway.
I sure hope the fix is soon for those affected.
My careful well thought out strategy of buying the proven 4.6 technology is starting to pay dividends.
OK, it was a great price that made me buy it; I didn't know Jack about the two engines as I haven't bought Ford in more than a decade.
Just got lucky, for once.
Chris
#73
10-18-2005, 08:32 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Murray , Kentucky
Posts: 2,392
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by silverbullet5.4
Sadly enough, spark plugs are not covered by any warranty...so...I believe even if the dealer breaks the plugs you will have to pay. Lets face it, its not the dealers fault that the spark plugs are seized. Then again its not ours either, but trying to battle Ford is a shot in the dark. Lets just hope they take some responsibility for these types of design flaws which could potentially cost consumers thousands. For anyone wondering what the design flaw in the new 3V 5.4 is(because we all knew one was inevitable), here it is. Atleast the first one discovered.
#74
10-18-2005, 08:43 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 4,480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by khendrix2374
Bull sh*t I'll pay for it. I know its not a warrenty thing to change plugs, but if the tech snaps one of them bad boys off... aint my fault... in all reality, it wont be his either, but Ford certainly will pay to fix it. Not me!
#75
10-18-2005, 08:44 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: BURBANK ILL
Posts: 614
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Quintin
I had some extra time this evening, so I pulled a couple plugs from my '04 with 28K miles. I pulled #1 and #5, and they came out tough. They creaked and squeaked and popped for about the first two full turns before spinning out easily. I didn't have my camera with me today, but by the looks of it, I don't think it's carbon that's causing the problem, it's rust. I think the steel insert of the plug is reacting with the aluminum head and corroding. I'll be replacing all eight later this week, and will probably replace 'em in my mom's Expedition at around 20Kish. In the meantime, I wiped the two plugs down I pulled and put a thin coat of dialelectric grease on the insert portion of the plug.