How much more amps does it crank. My local advanced auto parts only has the Yellow Top and after I trade my battery in it will only cost me $149.00. Should I just get it there or order a blue top. It says the blue tops are for Marine or RV does that make a difference seeing it going in my truck.

Are these what your talking about

Blue Top
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...spagename=WDVW

Yellow Top
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...spagename=WDVW

 

If I'm not mis-understanding you here, and you want to spin the alternator faster without other accessories, then you would want a smaller pulley on the alternator.

If that's not what you are refering to, then disregard.

 

Moose, check your other thread in the speaker forum!

 

1969Mach Nice catch. Of course yo are right, and sorry about any misunderstanding I caused.

I referred to 'overdriving' the alt, which you would do by 'under-sizing' the pulley. I was using the 'under-drive' pulley set reference, where you 'oversize' the small pulleys.
I hope anyone who read it would think carefully and realize that I meant putting a smaller pulley on the alt would make it spin faster.
I hate the terminology, high gear means low numbers. We know what we mean, but the 'reversing' language sure doesn't make it any easier to tell someone what you mean.

Again, thanks for catching my unclear statement.

MooseRLP, I think I am making it more confusing than it has to be. The cold cranking amps are for starting. The main thing we are talking about is ‘deep cycling’.
Dang, it’s hard to make this clear sometimes;

A regular car battery puts out a quick, hard punch to spin the car up. Then you don’t use the battery, you run on the alternator, which supplies the power you need, and brings the battery back up to full charge with the extra it produces.
Please; I don’t want to get into chemical reactions, specific gravity, etc. Not relevant to this conversation.

A deep cycle battery works sorta the same, but puts out less cold cranking amps, but can be drug way down without harming it. 350 fully up/fully down cycles for example. If you keep discharging a regular battery way down, it is not going to last.
So in a RV/Marine environment, where you need long term, lower power output, they are great. They cost more, and historically have not lasted as long. When I stocked batteries in my stores, they deep cycles cost twice or more as much, but only had a 1 year warranty.
A specialized use battery.
Pound for pound, they didn’t produce the punch (cold weather starting ability) of a regular battery. But they kept putting out lower amounts for far longer than the regular quick punch battery.
Time has moved on, as has tech.
Now they make a battery that even though it is designed as a deep cycle battery, able to put power out much longer, without significant damage, it can still crank the power to spin your truck up on a below freezing morning. They also can keep putting out low power (50 amps, say) for longer and can still deliver punch.
Hope this clears that up.

You just pay a heck of a lot more.
Chris

 

I figured i'd chime in since since I just went through the same ordeal in upgrading the alternator in my 04 Scab. If your lights dim while you play your stereo and your car is running, then you need to upgrade your alternator. If you are able to pull more amps than your alternator is putting out, then no matter what a battery doesn't solve the problem. All it does is buy you a little more time until it gets drained down. By purchasing a 200amp upgraded alternator, your battery will always be charging when the motor is running, even if you have your A/C on high, stereo blaring, and your brights on.
If you do decide to go with an upgraded alternator, just make sure and let the company who is going to make your alternator know that the correct regulator for your alternator is a "F602" There are 4 regulators that Ford uses on the 6G alternator right now and it was a huge issue for me to find the right one. PA Performance gave up after I sent back 2 alternators because they didn't work. The place that finally was able to supply me with the correct working alternator was Wrangler NW Power Products. www.wranglernw.com Part #200-295 (200 Amp) Check out there site, they have a lot of cool products for our trucks.
If you would like to read up on the alternator and all the different regulators go here http://195.125.241.148//support/flyer/fl0602.htm It has alot of useful information.

 

Wow, good info Ssanders92120 . I got the impression that these guys were not overloading, but were 'dimming, when just loading, when the regulator hadn't 'caught up.
That 7 second delay refrenced would indicate that this might be almost normal.
I also assumed that these guys weren't the ones running the 140 amp load, addressed earlier in the thread.


A better battery would get them past the 'valleys'.

Even with a bigger alt, a better battery might be indicated.

How much did a 200 amp set you back?
Chris

 

$509.39/EA ouch. For the dude drawing 140 amps, sure. But for the guys that are only drawing 60-70 amps with everything running, that might sting a little.

I also didn't see anything about how many amps it puts out at idle RPM. Bet it's there somewhere, just couldn't find it.

Based on your fine link,
" If the PCM sees the idle speed dropping and the alternator load increasing it can raise the idle. This is a small signal that can be monitored by an oscilloscope or by an accurate volt meter. This regulator also has a 7-second load response."

Interesting.
Chris

 

get rid of that cap, they do more harm than good, just get some big wires and a good battery. dual batteries does WAY more than any cap can. tests show that a 9 volt batter holds more juice than a top of the line capacitator

 

takotruckin, I'm a little confused by the post? A capacitor is used as a filter, to 'clean' the noise from transient electrical signals. It' 'smoothes' the power flow.
The amount of power it holds, washes through it in milliseconds..

Is there some use for a capacitor that I am unfamiliar with?

I mean besides charging it up and chasing people around with it till it dies.... Sorry, old shop trick.

I do know that a filter capacitor is a 'last resort' method of eliminating noise, after you redo the grounds, separate the wires, etc. etc.

I am talking about the uses in a car stereo, not using it in applications like airbags, etc. where it is used to hold and amplify power.

Chris

 

in anything i have every seen a cap for is to help for the loud points that will dim headlights. people seem to think that it will help. they are advertised to hold power when the amp isnt using it all and release it when it is. This is what most stereo caps do. are you talking about some other kind of filter? btw, i just a aquired a huge lanzar cap, i was thinking of doing some testing with it once i get my fiberglass box finished.

 

Gotcha, I see what you guys with the caps are doing. I was thinking you were talking about using the capacitors as filters, 90% of the time that's what they are for.


http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-...all_power.html

is a pretty good take on the power problems, and while my math is more accurate than their generic numbers, their 'down and dirty' method is quick and easy.

Disneyland construction (the old guys call it Mickey Mouse) way of 'cheating the system' to act like it has more power.

It looks like it would work good for the guy that's just barely overloaded.

I tend to build things within specification, working with the stress parameters established.
So I don’t think that way.

This is a clever way to exceed your reliability margins, and still get results cheaper. Not too bad, really.

Funny thing, I think it would be a good idea on these trucks, because of the delay in the regulators. My reading suggests the delay is a CAFE thing, so that if you just access some power option for a few seconds, the alternator doesn't engage, thus loading the motor, and costing you some gas.

Down side, is you guys with the 'thumpers' need instant power. At odds with the Ford design. That's OK, both ways have merits.

So to do a 1000 watt on the cheap, a good Yellow top, really good connections, and a hundred buck Cap, and you might be overloading, but I suspect you could get away with it for a year or three...Just watch the volt meter a little. If you do discharge, while sitting at idle and thumping, the Yellow or Blue won't be damaged, and the cap should smooth out the damage the drops in voltage caused by the delay might cause. Of course, you would have to do some higher RPM driving every half hour or so. Leaving it in 2nd while slowly cruising at about 2400 RPM, something like that.

You go much over a 1000 or so watts, and you are defiantly exceeding design parameters. Sorta like loading 10 grains of Unique in a 357. Sure some guys do it for years, others have to buy new guns, or fingers...

Anyone with 1400+ watts needs a bigger output from the alt, or they are running a deficit a lot of the time.

This has been fun, makes my 300 watt system seem pretty dinky…
That’s OK, I like what’s left of my hearing.
Eh, pardon, What did you say….?
Chris

 

Forgot one item. The reason these trucks have 130 amp alts is because your PCM, etc. require lots of clean, even power... They don't have 130 amp alts because Ford is generous. If the system was happy with a 60 amp, you better believe Ford would be putting in a 60. It would improve the CAFE, and be cheaper to build.

Be careful you don't starve the PCM. You wouldn’t like it when it gets angry....
Chris

 

I have a question on the regulators on the aftermarket alternators. If the wrong regulator is used could it drain the battery with the truck not running?

Reason I am asking is that my truck battery keeps dying if it's not started everyday. I'm on my 2nd optima red top in 4 months and my alternator is a custom 250A from excessive amperage. I have my stereo and alarm system disconnected so that is out of the question. Autozone tested my battery and alternator and they look fine.

Thanks guys!

 

Sounds like you have something drawing energy from somewhere. Do you have a radar detector, or any accessories that are drawing power. Also when you are changing your batteries out your not setting them on the concrete are you?

 

what happens if you ste them on the concrete?