TSB for hesitation yet?
#17
03-26-2004, 05:53 PM
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#18
03-26-2004, 10:39 PM
"Even BMW and Mercedes have issues with first year products."
yep, that's the truth. i won't buy a first year german car - and probably shouldn't have exercised the same refrain with the ford.
"The truth of the matter is the high end European cars spend more time on average in the shop than American. That is the facts."
all the consumer report type surveys (ie: JD Powers, etc) make clear that while first year german cars are indeed schit, all year american cars fit that bill.
look, i like the truck - a lot. however, it really does have a lot of bugs. the real problem is not as much the bugs but the BMW type service attitude of "it's the first we've heard of it" and there being a lack of solutions. we've had BMWs since 1984 and the current one will likely be the last owing to this. that said, i've yet to have a german (or japanese or swedish) car with as many flaws over the life of my ownership as the F150 has after a mere 1800 miles. this is a MEGA high volume vehicle and there is no excuse for failing to have a solution by now to most if not all the problems 6 months after release.
i hear lots of people bashing the Ford GT with the ole "but it's still a Ford" comment. and, i've always defended the GT just the same. hopefully Ford will execute the first year of that one better than it has it's best selling highest volume F150.
the comment re: the truck being our "beater" was in direct response to the arsehole making the "yugo" remark.
______________________________________________
.D. Power and Associates Reports:
While Japanese-Branded Vehicles Continue to Lead in
Long-Term Quality, the Domestics Outpace Europeans
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: July 8, 2003
WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.—While Japanese-branded vehicles continue to dominate in terms of long-term vehicle quality, the Europeans have lost their edge over the U.S. domestic-branded vehicles, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2003 Vehicle Dependability StudySM (VDS) released today.
The 2003 study, which measures problems reported by original owners of 2000 model-year vehicles at three years of ownership, finds that although there is near parity between U.S. Domestics and Europeans in terms of initial quality, substantial quality gaps appear between the Domestics and the Europeans in long-term durability. On average, models by domestic automakers outperform the Europeans by 49 problems per 100 (PP100) vehicles at three years of ownership.
"Conventional wisdom said that dependability was the property of the Japanese and Europeans," said Joe Ivers, partner and executive director of quality/customer satisfaction at J.D. Power and Associates. "While that’s still true for automakers like Toyota and Honda, it’s no longer the case for many of the Europeans. Porsche, Jaguar, Saab and BMW perform well above the industry average in dependability, but many other European brands are bought based on a reputation for long-term quality and fall far short of even the average. This is in stark contrast to the results of the first VDS, conducted in 1990, when Mercedes-Benz led the industry."
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A, Inc. boasts nine models with top segment rankings, followed by Ford Motor Company and General Motors with three each, and American Honda and Porsche Cars North America with one each. Lexus is the top-ranked nameplate for the ninth consecutive year. Porsche Cars North America leads the corporate ranking, while Toyota Motor Sales leads among the full-range vehicle manufacturers. General Motors is the only domestic manufacturer to rank above the industry average in the corporate rankings, with 12 models finishing in the top three of the segment rankings, second only to Toyota Motor Sales with 13.
Other notable performances in the 2003 results include Subaru and GMC, which both performed considerably better when measured at three years in VDS than when they were measured at 90 days of ownership. At the other end of the spectrum is Mercedes-Benz, which experiences the largest quality gap between initial quality and long-term quality measurements. Also deteriorating more rapidly than the average vehicle are Audi and Volvo.
Some problems that occur much more frequently as vehicles age include excessive brake wear, air conditioning system issues, wind noise and the replacement of components not called for under the normal maintenance schedule. New problems that arise as vehicles age include issues with shocks and struts; faded, cracked or worn materials; worn or broken moldings; cracked and peeling paint; and various fluid leaks.
Long-term quality measures have a big consumer impact. Among new-vehicle buyers, 52 percent indicate that long-term durability is among their most important factors in choosing a vehicle. Further, among used-vehicle buyers, 42 percent report buying a used vehicle instead of a new vehicle because they felt that the quality of the used vehicle is as good as a new one. This is particularly true among luxury used-vehicle buyers.
"With the proliferation of long-term warranties being offered on new vehicles and the increasing popularity of manufacturer-sponsored used-vehicle certification programs, long-term quality issues are critical to manufacturers and their bottom lines," said Ivers. "Manufacturers must align themselves with consumer expectations for durability. Long-term quality issues have a substantial impact on customer retention, even among ‘got to have’ models that seem impervious to quality issues at their introductions."
The 2003 Vehicle Dependability Study is based on responses from more than 55,000 original owners of 2000 model-year cars and light trucks. The study covers 147 specific problem symptoms grouped into nine major vehicle systems. For the first time, the study reviews models at three years of ownership instead of the historical four- to five-year period in order to better support manufacturer product improvement efforts in next-generation replacement models.
http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/relea...ch.asp?CatID=1
This report (as it usually does) shows Ford to be below the industry average for dependability. Ford also managed to secure a below industry average for the customer service index as well.
yep, that's the truth. i won't buy a first year german car - and probably shouldn't have exercised the same refrain with the ford.
"The truth of the matter is the high end European cars spend more time on average in the shop than American. That is the facts."
all the consumer report type surveys (ie: JD Powers, etc) make clear that while first year german cars are indeed schit, all year american cars fit that bill.
look, i like the truck - a lot. however, it really does have a lot of bugs. the real problem is not as much the bugs but the BMW type service attitude of "it's the first we've heard of it" and there being a lack of solutions. we've had BMWs since 1984 and the current one will likely be the last owing to this. that said, i've yet to have a german (or japanese or swedish) car with as many flaws over the life of my ownership as the F150 has after a mere 1800 miles. this is a MEGA high volume vehicle and there is no excuse for failing to have a solution by now to most if not all the problems 6 months after release.
i hear lots of people bashing the Ford GT with the ole "but it's still a Ford" comment. and, i've always defended the GT just the same. hopefully Ford will execute the first year of that one better than it has it's best selling highest volume F150.
the comment re: the truck being our "beater" was in direct response to the arsehole making the "yugo" remark.
______________________________________________
.D. Power and Associates Reports:
While Japanese-Branded Vehicles Continue to Lead in
Long-Term Quality, the Domestics Outpace Europeans
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: July 8, 2003
WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.—While Japanese-branded vehicles continue to dominate in terms of long-term vehicle quality, the Europeans have lost their edge over the U.S. domestic-branded vehicles, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2003 Vehicle Dependability StudySM (VDS) released today.
The 2003 study, which measures problems reported by original owners of 2000 model-year vehicles at three years of ownership, finds that although there is near parity between U.S. Domestics and Europeans in terms of initial quality, substantial quality gaps appear between the Domestics and the Europeans in long-term durability. On average, models by domestic automakers outperform the Europeans by 49 problems per 100 (PP100) vehicles at three years of ownership.
"Conventional wisdom said that dependability was the property of the Japanese and Europeans," said Joe Ivers, partner and executive director of quality/customer satisfaction at J.D. Power and Associates. "While that’s still true for automakers like Toyota and Honda, it’s no longer the case for many of the Europeans. Porsche, Jaguar, Saab and BMW perform well above the industry average in dependability, but many other European brands are bought based on a reputation for long-term quality and fall far short of even the average. This is in stark contrast to the results of the first VDS, conducted in 1990, when Mercedes-Benz led the industry."
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A, Inc. boasts nine models with top segment rankings, followed by Ford Motor Company and General Motors with three each, and American Honda and Porsche Cars North America with one each. Lexus is the top-ranked nameplate for the ninth consecutive year. Porsche Cars North America leads the corporate ranking, while Toyota Motor Sales leads among the full-range vehicle manufacturers. General Motors is the only domestic manufacturer to rank above the industry average in the corporate rankings, with 12 models finishing in the top three of the segment rankings, second only to Toyota Motor Sales with 13.
Other notable performances in the 2003 results include Subaru and GMC, which both performed considerably better when measured at three years in VDS than when they were measured at 90 days of ownership. At the other end of the spectrum is Mercedes-Benz, which experiences the largest quality gap between initial quality and long-term quality measurements. Also deteriorating more rapidly than the average vehicle are Audi and Volvo.
Some problems that occur much more frequently as vehicles age include excessive brake wear, air conditioning system issues, wind noise and the replacement of components not called for under the normal maintenance schedule. New problems that arise as vehicles age include issues with shocks and struts; faded, cracked or worn materials; worn or broken moldings; cracked and peeling paint; and various fluid leaks.
Long-term quality measures have a big consumer impact. Among new-vehicle buyers, 52 percent indicate that long-term durability is among their most important factors in choosing a vehicle. Further, among used-vehicle buyers, 42 percent report buying a used vehicle instead of a new vehicle because they felt that the quality of the used vehicle is as good as a new one. This is particularly true among luxury used-vehicle buyers.
"With the proliferation of long-term warranties being offered on new vehicles and the increasing popularity of manufacturer-sponsored used-vehicle certification programs, long-term quality issues are critical to manufacturers and their bottom lines," said Ivers. "Manufacturers must align themselves with consumer expectations for durability. Long-term quality issues have a substantial impact on customer retention, even among ‘got to have’ models that seem impervious to quality issues at their introductions."
The 2003 Vehicle Dependability Study is based on responses from more than 55,000 original owners of 2000 model-year cars and light trucks. The study covers 147 specific problem symptoms grouped into nine major vehicle systems. For the first time, the study reviews models at three years of ownership instead of the historical four- to five-year period in order to better support manufacturer product improvement efforts in next-generation replacement models.
http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/relea...ch.asp?CatID=1
This report (as it usually does) shows Ford to be below the industry average for dependability. Ford also managed to secure a below industry average for the customer service index as well.
Last edited by benkea; 03-26-2004 at 11:12 PM.
#19
03-27-2004, 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by benkea
thanks for the clarification rtremaine. we have other cars with drive by wire (one of which is 3+ years old) and none of them have the systematic hesitation found in each and every 04 5.4L F150. i would definetely think the fix is an ECU flash, and am encouraged by your post that maybe they have it ready. when you hammer the accelerator, do you have any hesitation now? is yours a 5.4L? TIA
thanks for the clarification rtremaine. we have other cars with drive by wire (one of which is 3+ years old) and none of them have the systematic hesitation found in each and every 04 5.4L F150. i would definetely think the fix is an ECU flash, and am encouraged by your post that maybe they have it ready. when you hammer the accelerator, do you have any hesitation now? is yours a 5.4L? TIA
#20
03-27-2004, 04:29 AM
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88 bmw sold 1998 with 308,000 miles on it. 1998 bought a used audi a6 1995 with 30,000 sold in 2003 with 199,000 both cars were my wifes and they had no major repairs.
People that buy German cars are a lot more picky towards things most drivers overlook imo
I have owned many muscle American cars in my time and loved some of them dearly. But I bought my wife a new a6 2.7 turbo and imo one joy to drive......I really like strapping myself into the drivers seat and pounding some pavement. Before buying I test drove a new vet, 530 bmw(nice also but rear wheel drive not for NE) mec 320, viper (fast but imo) pos.....Most of these had drive by wire and I felt no or little hesitation. I can on the a-6 slap the pedal quickly and get no feedback if you do it quick enough though.
People that buy German cars are a lot more picky towards things most drivers overlook imo
I have owned many muscle American cars in my time and loved some of them dearly. But I bought my wife a new a6 2.7 turbo and imo one joy to drive......I really like strapping myself into the drivers seat and pounding some pavement. Before buying I test drove a new vet, 530 bmw(nice also but rear wheel drive not for NE) mec 320, viper (fast but imo) pos.....Most of these had drive by wire and I felt no or little hesitation. I can on the a-6 slap the pedal quickly and get no feedback if you do it quick enough though.
#21
03-27-2004, 09:36 AM
"I guess I'm a better driver than you."
yes, it can be pretty tricky fully pressing the accelerator to the floor with your foot. funny though, while all our other cars just roast the tires when doing so, the F150 just sits and does nothing for a second or so. it's wierd how that works given it's the same foot in all the cars.
yes, it can be pretty tricky fully pressing the accelerator to the floor with your foot. funny though, while all our other cars just roast the tires when doing so, the F150 just sits and does nothing for a second or so. it's wierd how that works given it's the same foot in all the cars.
#22
03-27-2004, 12:11 PM
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#23
03-27-2004, 01:55 PM
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In an attempt to stay on track with the thread....
There is another reflash available as noted earlier here. I have had my truck reflashed 3 times so far since I took delivery last October. Every time it has been an improvemnet over the prior version. This last flash realy helped off the line feel and tip-in. This is the closest it has felt to a good old fashioned linkage/cable operated throttle. There are other improvements to driveability also so it is definitly worth the time to make an appointment at your dealership.
Just remember though, walking into the dealer and saying "I want a reflash" won't cut it. They need to hear that it is hesitating or idling rough etc. (driveability issues) so they will connect their WDS to your truck.
There is another reflash available as noted earlier here. I have had my truck reflashed 3 times so far since I took delivery last October. Every time it has been an improvemnet over the prior version. This last flash realy helped off the line feel and tip-in. This is the closest it has felt to a good old fashioned linkage/cable operated throttle. There are other improvements to driveability also so it is definitly worth the time to make an appointment at your dealership.
Just remember though, walking into the dealer and saying "I want a reflash" won't cut it. They need to hear that it is hesitating or idling rough etc. (driveability issues) so they will connect their WDS to your truck.
#24
03-30-2004, 01:49 PM
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I'm brining my truck back in tomorrow for this problem. It's lame but they are unable (unwilling?) to check if there's a fix for this problem without physically having the truck there.
I don't hold out much hope, but I gotta keep on them. I don't want to just put up with this. Perhaps if more people would complain Ford would fix it?
I'll keep ya posted
I don't hold out much hope, but I gotta keep on them. I don't want to just put up with this. Perhaps if more people would complain Ford would fix it?
I'll keep ya posted
#25
04-03-2004, 10:36 AM
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04-03-2004, 05:30 PM
#27
04-03-2004, 09:39 PM
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#28
04-04-2004, 08:39 AM
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Would a reflash work
If I understand the new throttle system. The lag may be the speed at which the DC drive motor on the throttle body operates and not the information flow from the ECM. If this is the case a new throttle body design may be the only fix. This is just a guess.
Now as for me, before I got my 04 I was driving a 92 f150 4.9 5 spd so this truck seems like a top fuel dragster. I do not really notice a lag in mine but I have little to compare it to..
Sonnyxlt
Now as for me, before I got my 04 I was driving a 92 f150 4.9 5 spd so this truck seems like a top fuel dragster. I do not really notice a lag in mine but I have little to compare it to..
Sonnyxlt