I am new to the forums so thanks ahead of time for any and all assistance. I have been perusing the site and specific posts prior to tackling the below scenario so thanks for all of the great information.

2005 Expedition 5.4L

My Issue:
I tackled the cam phaser and timing set issue this past weekend. I chose to go with the Livernois Lockout (w/out the tuner because I am getting it tuned locally) and a timing set from RockAuto. I used the combination of all the insight I gained from the forums and alldatadiy to complete the task of take down and reassembly per ford specs.

Post assembly the engine has no power. I am talking about not enough to drive into town a mile away and vibration can be felt in the drivers seat.

I feel I can rule out the Livernois lockouts out because the VCT system does not activate unless the engine is at operating temp and above 800rpm (read on forums but have not been able to verify in the factor service manual). I have experienced the lack of power on a cool engine that was just started as well as one that is warm.

I have cleaned all injectors and checked the engine for vacuum leak via the smoke and propane methods.

I am stumped.

I do however have a Autoenginuity diagnostic tool at my disposal but am a bit unclear how or what to check. So far I have verified that there is no misfires being reported. As well, I used the Autoenginuity diagnostic tool to experiment with the ignition advance, which appears to calm down the felt vibration.

Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

DevilDog
2005 Expedition Eddie Bauer 5.4L

 

Have you had the engine tuned yet? Are there any codes? Did you make sure it was timed right? Did you install the lock outs properly?

 

Have you had the engine tuned yet?
Not yet. I believe it should not be an issue because the engine is cold and the issue still occurs. I could be wrong.

Are there any codes?
None unless I floor it. I was able to pull a P0171 once because of that which is why I did the vacuum leak tests.

Did you make sure it was timed right?
I have never timed a 5.4L before. That being said I have timed other engines and had no issues. I set the timing on the crank to 6 and the phaser were at 12 and 11 respectively. Then installed the timing set which I loved the firmness of the setup once complete.

Did you install the lock outs properly?
Yep, I believe so. Not much to mess up they are very straight forward to install.

Thanks for the response.

DevilDog

 

I believe you should get it tuned. I don't think running lock outs without a tune is good news.

 

I am with you on the no tune but the experience with them in place is unexpected. Given that the VCT should not be in effect until engine is up to standard operating temps.

That being said I am strongly considering doing another open heart on the beast and taking them out.

Any suggestions on what to check with a diagnostics tool (Autoenginuity) to verify that this is the cause before I break her opened?

Devildog

 

I don't have any experience with that tool. I'm just going by what I've read, and my experience changing out my phasers.

I would suspect something isn't timed properly, along with no tune.

I found this write up, and it may be helpful:

http://www.expertswrite.net/tech/33-ford-vvt.html

 

That is the exact article that had me thinking it was a timing issue over a lockout issue. Because of the following lines from the article.

"Two operating variables is that engine oil temperature must be normal and engine speed must be above 800RPM, otherwise the system is inactive and should be defaulted at idle."

And the below which led me to test with the solenoid unplugged:
"Simply unplugging the VCT solenoid will default the spool valve in the fully advanced position." Which is what the lockout does.

Thanks
Devildog

 

By the way is anyone else seeing Toyota ads at the bottom of the F150online forums. Just thought that was funny. Don't get me wrong I would take the money for the ads but seems like poor planning on the part of the Toyota advertising department.

 

baticus,

Thanks for the info so far. With your experience changing out cam phasers have you ever run into a timing issue with a tooth or two off condition? If so could you advise what it felt like in the vehicle.

Just stumped because I would expect codes to fly if timing is off.

 

I have never had a tooth off. When I changed mine out, I had an issue with the right cam twisting without the chain on. I managed to get it back and timed.

That being said, the engine may not throw any codes being 1 or 2 teeth off. Someone with more experience will hopefully chime in.

I know it may suck, but your best bet would be pulling the front cover, and verifying the timing. But if the truck didn't have the issue before, it was something you have done to cause it. Live and learn they say. You may need to release tension on the chains to reposition the reference marks to the correct spots.

 

Baticus,

Thanks for your attention on this. It helps to have a sounding board to bounce ideas off of.

I believe my mistake was that I did not turn the engine over manually multiple times prior to buttoning it all back up (followed the ford manual spec to the letter with regard to timing), because the timing marks were all spot when I closed it up. At this point I am guessing that on startup it must have skipped a tooth on the right cam (because of the p0171 code that I was able to pull once) on initial startup.

Gotta love being a DIY guy sometimes. I've got more time than money and I don't have much time to spare ;-)

 

 

So, I removed the cam phasers with the lockouts and put in a new set of cam phasers. I am back to just a timing set and cam phaser swap which should be pretty strait forward. Upon completion I am getting the following codes.

P0345

P1000

U2023

C1145

With the exception of the P1000 code, which will take a couple of good drive cycles to clear I am suspecting a wiring issue. That being said I could use any advice or words of wisdom to help keep me on track to resolve this one.

The Truck runs ok cold but once it is warmed up it has no power and idles like crap.

2005 Expedition 5.4L Eddie Bauer

 

Alright, I wanted to post a bit of an update on the above problems in the hopes that once resolved this thread will help someone else out.

Condition now: I have been able to clear all of the codes on the motor by trouble shooting the individual codes and tracing the issue to it source and resolving it. All of the codes were wiring continuity issues and meaning shorts to ground or shorting in a signal wire.

So with no code showing at all I have the following conditions. The truck starts and idles fine. Minor vibration at idle but I am not sure it was not there previously. The engine sounds better than is ever has.

Issues: At idle (750rpm or so) in park if I ease into the throttle there is no issue as all. If from idle in park I hit the throttle quickly the engine bogs down for a second or two and then picks up as normal. Placing the vehicle in gear with my foot on the brake causes a normal rpm drop but the engine vibrates beyond normal as if it would like to stall but is not quite there.

Driving it down my road it does not want to get above 1000rpms regardless of how much gas I put to it. If I give it to much I believe I hear a pop from the exhaust but cannot verify if it is back firing.

Also, at idle there is a heavy gas smell from the exhaust. I did the old school sheet of paper over the exhaust to see if there was exhaust suction and it does have suction every half second or so. I am not sure if this is normal or a symptom of the issue.

 

Update and possible solution, time will tell but it is looking good so far.

So I bit the bullet and took the expo to a local shop for diagnosis. They fairly quickly came back with cylinder 2 being dead and said the coil pack was not the issue.

So on top of everything else I get to tackle the dreaded spark plug replacement job. I took my time and did the soak and warm-up method for the plugs. I ended up breaking off just two of the 8. Not to bad. I ordered the Lisle tool to extract those two after the Autozone rental tool (the one with the glue then tap method) for this failed. The Lisle tool had both plug sleeves out and replaced in about 30 minutes. I took my time and the tool worked perfectly.

After the plugs were changed the expo would run like a scolded dog until it got to peak operating temperature. Once to peak operating temp once you slowed to a stop it would act as if the timing was off, which to me meant either the vct did not have enough pressure of that there was some form of electrical interference (possible alternator issue).

Well as we all know the gauge on the dash is useless for determining oil pressure. So I took the oil sender off and installed a T fitting with a mechanical oil pressure gauge inside the cab (fun job on the 4x4). I warmed the expo up and then went for a drive on a path that will typically trigger the issue without getting me to far from home armed now with real numbers for oil pressure. Well sure enough the oil pressure at idle in gear would drop to about 15psi and the issue would occur.

So today I did some research and decided to change out the factory suggested oil weight 5w20 for 10w40 castrol gtx and a new motorcraft filter. Ran the same test as yesterday and I now have 25 psi at hot idle in gear and the issue did not occur.

I welcome any opinions regarding my low oil pressure solution.

My thinking with increasing the oil weight was that if I had the correct oil pressure and did the switch then it would cause issues with clearances but since I was getting low pressure it means there is already an issue with clearances and the additional weight would not be an issue.