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  #1  
Old 02-17-2008, 11:33 AM
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lpg conversion???

has anyone converted thier '97-04 F-150 to run on propane?

where would I start to look for a kit?
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  #2  
Old 04-17-2008, 01:37 PM
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There are a number of propane conversion kits that would work on your truck, however, very few are EPA-certified. That means that you would have trouble getting a shop to install the kit for you because the shop would be liable to be fined. However,vehicle owners are able to work on their own vehicles if they do not tamper with any emission control equipment. If you do some of the work yourself, the shop would likely consider the work as a repair than a conversion. The lowest priced injection conversion available is Technocarb's ESIP parts package.

If you do very much driving and you can find relatively cheap propane, you would likely have a fast payback. The new propane injection systems' fuel economy is typically around 90% of the vehicle's gasoline economy compared with 75-80% with the old Impco-style fumigation conversions.
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Old 04-17-2008, 05:01 PM
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ROUSH® Introduces Dedicated Propane-Powered F-150 Pickup Truck



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Posted March 25, 2008

LIVONIA, Mich. – ROUSH® introduces the first dedicated propane-powered F-150 pickup truck using an advanced liquid propane injection system. The ROUSH® F-150 liquid propane injection system is designed and manufactured to operate solely on propane while providing the same horsepower, torque and drivability of an F-150 equipped with a gasoline-powered 5.4-liter, 3-valve TritonTM V-8 engine.

ROUSH® has begun taking orders for the propane-powered F-150. The 2008 model year truck can be ordered, delivered and serviced through a nationwide network of select Ford dealers.

The ROUSH® F-150 is available in Regular Cab, SuperCab and SuperCrew cab styles with XL, XLT, STX, & FX4 trim and all three different bed lengths. The liquid propane injection system option includes dedicated propane fuel lines, fuel rail assembly and fuel tank. Additionally, the vehicle’s computer has been re-calibrated to provide optimum performance and fuel economy.

The base liquid propane injection system option is $10,500 and includes a 50-gallon in-bed fuel tank.
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Old 04-17-2008, 10:19 PM
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If you're planning to buy a new mono-fuel propane truck, the Roush truck would be an excellent option. However, Roush is not offering an aftermarket conversion. CleanFUEL USA might have an aftermarket conversion for the F-150 because they are the US distributor for ICOM. This conversion would likely be similar to ICOM's dual fuel JTG system.
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Old 04-17-2008, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarajerame View Post
has anyone converted thier '97-04 F-150 to run on propane?

where would I start to look for a kit?
dad did about 500 of them for Ft Hood back when they attempted it. they were doing them on all of their F150's which were the 300-6 engines.. lack of lubrication to the upper cylinders and valves caused massive cavitation. if u get stainless valves and with aluminum heads u dont have to worry about it. but the old steel valves and iron heads on those older engines just went to hell.

Last edited by Faster150; 04-17-2008 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 04-17-2008, 10:44 PM
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Some effects that can result from converting a vehicle to run on propane fuel are as follows:

* Conversion components (fuel tank, etc.) add weight to the vehicle and therefore, may slightly increase the consumption of fuel per mile. Propane costs for fleet vehicles typically range from 5-30 percent less than conventional or reformulated gasoline, so the cost of increased fuel usage can be recovered over time. Also, many states offer fuel tax incentives to encourage the use of clean fuels, thus further reducing the operating costs of the vehicle.
* Converted vehicles perform very much the same as gasoline vehicles. The most significant difference a driver may notice is a slight power loss. Propane use may result in power loss of up to 7 percent. However, power and performance can be optimized through engine adjustments of the air/fuel mixture, ignition timing, and the compression ratio. Excessive loss of power, however, may indicate improper installation or tuning of the conversion system. On conversions, it is important to follow the kit manufacturer's instructions on how and when to tune a converted vehicle.
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Old 04-18-2008, 08:59 AM
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I'm not sure what you mean by massive cavitation but my guess is that the Fort Hood engines had severe valve recession and/or burned valves. If this was done back before unleaded gas was introduced, the valve seats would not have been hardened. It is common to install hardened valve seats on exhaust valves in propane or CNG engines for the same reason you would do it to run unleaded gasoline in older engines. The induction-hardened valve seats on OEM iron heads work fine with propane unless the hardened area has worn away or has been machined. Impco estimates that the induction-hardened valve seats in light duty service last about 80,000 miles, 40-60,000 miles in medium duty service.

Impco also recommends that the valve rotatators be disabled for propane engines. Fuel mixtures must be correctly set as rich conditions tend to cause hot and slow combustion. Timing advance must also be correctly set to maximize power and fuel economy, which helps keep valves cool. In addition, according to Impco's service bulletin:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impco - Valve Theory and Problems
When you have valve problems on an LPG or natural gas-fueled engine in a short number of operating hours, about 99.9% of the time poor workmanship on the valve job is the culprit, not lean mixtures. LPG and natural gas are a neat scapegoat for poor workmanship.
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Old 04-18-2008, 03:23 PM
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I have a buddy who drives about 180 miles roundtrip to work. He looked into propane but wound up buying a CNG/gasoline Caviler. He pays about $1 per gallon of gasoline equivelent (GGE), and is planning on buying a PHIL station so he can fill up at home (about $3000 - tax credits). He does fill the car daily at a untility company filling station. I know he feels compressed natural gas is the best alternative. How much is propane per GGE? You better be saving a lot, or there's no point to the conversion.
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Old 04-18-2008, 04:13 PM
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The Gasoline Gallon Equivalent (GGE) is a way comparing the price of CNG to a gallon of gasoline. Normally, natural gas is sold in terms of $/MCF (thousands of cubic feet) and the gas meter on your house measures your gas consumption in cubic feet or cubic metres.

According to the US DOE, gasoline contains 116,090 BTU/gal LHV compared to 84,500 BTU/gal LHV for propane. This means that gasoline has 1.374 times more energy per unit volume than propane. Interestingly, the GGE uses 115,000 BTU/gal for gasoline which would make the comparison appear to be a bit more favorable for CNG.

Therefore, propane must cost 0.728 times the price of gasoline to be equivalent on an energy basis. If gasoline costs $3.50/gallon, propane must cost $2.55/gallon to be equivalent. However, injection systems are more efficient than what the energy comparison would predict. One factor that improves propane economy is the absence of engine knock (due to propane's 104 octane rating), which allows the engine to automatically run more advance. I'm not sure what other companies use for their fuel economy estimates but Technocarb's FAQ (see FAQ #8) suggests that their propane injection systems get about 90% of the vehicle's gasoline economy. This implies propane would have to cost $3.15/gallon to be equivalent to gasoline.

The main disadvantage with CNG (especially in a large vehicle like a pickup truck) is fuel storage. A large CNG cylinder only holds the equivalent energy of a 2-3 gallons of gasoline. If your driving allows for frequent fuel stops, a CNG system might make sense in your application.

If you only need to drive a within say 6 gallons of gasoline and you can return home to refuel with MyPhill, this small compressor would take over 14 hours to refill the equivalent of 6 gallons of gasoline.

Last edited by fraso; 04-18-2008 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 04-18-2008, 11:46 PM
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yeh dallas transit bus's use CNG and it takes 8 hours to fill them up.
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Old 04-19-2008, 08:27 AM
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FuelMaker (who makes MyPhill) has larger Vehicle Refueling Appliances (VRA) for fleets. MyPhill seems to have been made to refuel cars like the Honda Civic GX overnight after a single day's commute. That web site indicates that the fuel tank holds 8.03 GGE and it could take up to 16 hours to refill if the tank were virtually empty. Honda estimates the driving range on the GX's CNG tank to be 220-250 miles (or 170 miles according to the EPA).
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Old 04-19-2008, 08:43 AM
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PHIL is slow, but utilities have filling stations that take only a few minutes to fill a tank completely.
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Old 04-19-2008, 08:43 AM


 
 
 
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