Hey guys/gals,

I've been wondering this for a while about the differences in actual cost per mile between E85 & Gasoline. Well I finally got around to doing a test and this is what I found for my 2007 F150 5.4 3v.

E85 - total miles to a tank 350 - used 27.5 gallons - 12.7mpg - e85 price $2.26 - tank cost $62.15 - cost per mile $.18

Gas 87 Octane - total miles to a tank 400 - used 27.5 gallons - 14.5mpg - 87 Gas price $2.86 - tank cost $78.65 - cost per mile $.20

So with my truck and my driving style/conditions e85 is about $.02 cheaper a mile to drive. Which over the course of 100,000 miles a person could save about $2,000 using e85.

Hope I'm not waisting anybodys time by having to read this. But i was starting to get sick and tired of people asking me why I use e85 and get 2-3 less mpg. My excuse was always I like keeping the money in our country and not giving it to the towel heads. Even if it's more to drive the truck.

Well I guess now I know it actually is true to say e85 will save you more money and were not buying a towel head another Rolls Royce/Bentley. But will be buying a farmer a new John Deere Combine.

 

Glad to see that you care enough baout it to figure it out. Awsome findings and im sure it will help some people make up there minds about it. I have never driven on e85 but i hear there is a power differance. Did you notice this at all?

 

Glad it's going to save you some money. You make some pretty good points but I'll make a few myself since I'm bored at work today.


1) Driving habits determine gas mileage in our case here (5.4L motors). That being said everyones results will be different. If I stay out of the motor I can actually get pretty good mileage (better than 14.5). I'm pretty happy with the mileage I get with the 5.4L 3v.

2) E85 doesn't burn as efficiently as regular gas so there is performance loss. Might not be a lot but it's there. I use my truck for towing my toys and I want all the power I can get. I don't tow enough to justify a diesel or I'd own one.

3) When taking trips somewhere I rather not stop to re-fuel more often using e85. Wasting more time at the pump is costing me time. Then there is the problem that not all stations carry e85.

4) If I was worried about gas mileage I'd be driving a Yaris and not a F150.

5) Unless the government makes a complete alternative fuel the Saudi's will alway get our money. Just take a look at how much we use per day.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/quickfacts/quickoil.html

A few people switching to e85 isn't taking anything away from anyone.

But hey, if it's saving you a few bucks, that's always a good thing.

 

I wonder how much oil we would save if everyone stopped changing theirs at 3K when it still has at least twice the life left in it?

 

I agree with you Norm.

I don't agree with E-85 being any type of solution to our energy needs. It's only as cheap as it is because of government subsity to develop infastructure and distribution. As it is now, it's not particularly effecient in use or production, it's already starting to drive grain prices up. That will effect milk, beef... I do believe e-85 can be done right as Brazil currently is doing (using all of sugar bearing plants), and powering a very high percentage of their transportation needs.

Presscheck I do think that your results are interesting. The milage is better than I would have thought. I take it that since you didn't mention it that drivability was similar to gasoline. Thanks for taking the time to post.

 

1. As E-85 has less thermal energy, it takes more to do the same work as regular gas.
2. As a result of this property, we will end up using MORE foriegn oil and driving up the price of grain and cattle in our own country.
3. WHy support a government willing to spend billions on this faux industry when we shold be pushing HYDROGEN cell technology.

Stop buying oil from the middle east, STOP FUNDING TERRORISM!

Save a tree......eat a beaver

 

I would also recheck your numbers once cold weather comes around. There will be a decline in gas mileage. Question will be which goes down the most.

Also I would redo your test after filling a couple of times with the same type to make sure you are getting as close as possible with E85 or 87 octane. First fill after each is going to be a blend.

 

I really haven't noticed any differnece in power loss by switching from 87 octane to e85.

I also failed to mention my truck is bone stock.

Thanks for all your responses!

 

Hydrogen is the future. The car that runs on water.....

Read an article about taxis in some Indian city running on tanks of compressed air. While the engine is running it's spinning more compressors, giving it like a 250 mile range and a top speed of like 50mph. Used like 15 cents of electricity to charge the tanks.

 

If I ever do anything with E-85, it'll be this!
http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/in...?topic=47094.0
Don't rule out gasoline just yet. There are many concepts that will increase the energy/work we get out of a gallon of gas by a large margin. Here's a cool one
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...THISWEEKSISSUE

 

Ok.. here are some basics that are missed. E-85 as was said is subsidized by the government. That means all of us are paying for it in taxes. Taxes = bad. Brazil is almost all ethonol. It is totally subsidized by... TAXES.... once again.. taxes = bad. The food price increase because of ethonol is unacceptable. It puts an unfair burden on the poor... which leads to more welfare. Welfare = bad. Also, when you run E-85 you fall under the severe duty maintenance schedual. That negates any savings for those of us who don't normally fall under severe duty and change oil at 5,000 miles. Hydrogen in our current technology is to expensive to make. It is called a secondary fuel because it takes A LOT of energy to make it. the other problem is distribution. To make a distribution network that is as large as our current gasoline system is, would be so cost prohibitive that it will never happen. If we started the technology in the 1950's I would agree that is the way to go. We had most of the tech back then. But oil was so cheap we did not persue it. Now it is to expensive to update all the systems envolved. We have enough oil in this country to keep us supplied for hundreds of years.. or forever if you believe some scientists. Our stupid *** liberal government won't let us drill for it or refine it. You have the power... quit voting for the dopes who think global warming is caused by man. Or we might have to shut down the factories on Mars and Neptune and stop there global warming too!!

 

This is actually wrong. E85 has a lower energy density, which is why you only go about 70% as far on the same number of gallons. However, it's roughly equivalent to 105 octane. There's a reason top fuel dragsters use alcohol based fuels. I believe the 5.4 3V is rated at about 5% MORE horsepower when running under E85 than 87 unleaded.

So if you want all the power you can get, use E85. Lots more good info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85.

 

How can you get MORE HP out of a fuel with less thermal energy other than raising the compression and duration of spark in the motor?
As far as this 105 octane bit, I have heard that before and I dont believe it. Even if it was true, inorder to fully realize the benefit from a higher octane, you need HIGHER COMPRESSION.

 

I was wrong in the way I made that comment - Unless tuned and setup for e85, there will be a loss in power in a non-FFV motor. Since I own a standard 5.4L and not the FFV.

But I believe you are wrong in saying there is more power in e85. The 5.4L motor is 9.8:1 compression - Same as the FFV motor. Horsepower is created by compression - NOT octane. Tuning will help either motor.

Now, if we were talking about a turbo setup or supercharged it will help some because the e85 fuel will act as a intercooler or cooling agent. And the higher octane will help with the increase in cylinder pressure (higher compression). Which goes back to why high performance motors in racing use alcohol based fuels. A key point here is tuning as well.

Now, since you are talking about the FFV motor/PCM etc... it's setup for and tuned for e85. The same can be had if you tune for the type of regular gas you are running. Ford maybe getting a 5% increase because of their tuning but what happens when you throw say 87 in the tank? Ask Mike Troyer how much increase he gets with a properly tuned gas motor to run on 87. I'm sure he hits the 5% mark from a factory tune.

Another point I'll make is stoich on E85 is 9.8:1 and gas is 14.6:1. So if you are properly tuned to run on e85 and then need to run 87 because you can't get to a station that has e85. You're going to be running rich which then = loss in power. I'm sure the FFV PCM will make some adjustments but I believe it will lose power. IMO.

Ever hear the saying don't believe everything you read. A site promoting e85 is going to only give you the positives. http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/faqs/range.php

 

Hydrogen is the key to true energy independence! Check out Meliinium Cell Inc:
http://www.millenniumcell.com/fw/main/default.asp

Look to Ford for stock options and investing as Ford currently has the largest fleet of hydrogen vehicles running in the united states. Though we may not have the infrastructure in place, I believe that the big oil companies are looking for a way to utilize our current set up for hydrogen conversion. Additionally I believe Ford plans to launch commercial sales of hydrogen vehicles in late 2009. I will double check my facts on that one.