hello all , first post to the group , so bear with me...

i just bought a 97 f150 with the 5.4 , and it has been running fine for about a week now. while on the freeway today , the check engine light came on . I stopped at advance and they said my #2 cylinder was running lean. thats all they could give me... at least its a start.

so i just got home , and grabbed the trusty flashlight , and lo and behold , the far rear injector on the drivers side (im assuming this is #2) was wet. It doesnt look like a lot of gas , but its definately wet.

My question is this : how bad is this situation? injectors will run me 73$ and some change , and my only major concern is how to get to it. its pretty cramped and i havent worked on a 5.4 ever so i dont know what *needs* to be removed to get to the injector , and also how hard it is to get them in/out once i get to it.

also : they told me i could try replacing the o-rings and see if that works , but i am not sure about this one. i thought injectors were sealed units?


thanks for any help you can offer,
Jay Z
"hova"

 

theres still an o-ring that seals the injector from the outside. o-rings can crack or rip.

someone back me up on this, isnt there a problem with his year engine with something dripping on the rear injectors?

 

Yes there is a problem with something dripping on a spark plug wire, but it's coolant leaking from a heater hose connection above the #4 cylinder(right rear cylinder). Sounds like an O-ring problem to me. I've never seen an injector body leak. This is not a huge undertaking, you will have to get to the fuel rail bolts for that side, remove whatever is in the way. Once this is done you will have to gently pry up on the rail to free it from the intake. Check for O-rings that stick in intake and carefully remove reattach to injectors, check for damage, splits, etc. Remove retainer that holds leaking injector to rail and pull it out, reverse procedure.The only problem is the leaking injector you described is actually #8 cylinder, #2 is second one back on pass. side
Hope I helped some!

 

well both reponses were very helpful. i forgot that o-rings can crack and split if not properly installed , maintaned (sp) and check regularly.

what really concerns me is that my #4 is wet , and my #2 is the one throwing the code... looks like another neon for me... (i just bought a neon and had nothin but problems)...


i really like my truck and would like to keep her , but if this gets overpricey , she will be going back to the auction she came from...lol...jk

anyone know of any websites that sell flareside beds? mine is pretty banged up , and id like to bag her , and throw a flareside on there ...

edit::: I also noticed some wetness on my fuel rail... could there be a bad connection between injector and rail? i couldnt tell if the injectors screwed in to the fuel rail or not...


btw : 215k and some change....


jay z
"hova"

 

Jayz,

Lots of people on the list here buy whole sets of injectors on eBay, new, for quite reasonable prices - and often experience better mileage etc if their originals are getting on...take a look at the prices, probably not much more than one at the price you mentioned, and yes, they should come with the o-rings....as a rule of thumb if you just go for the rings, you ought to change them all, as they're probably all the same age and all due to fail.

I guess you should also check the injector body's not cracked, as well.

 

First off, there is no such code as "#2 cylinder lean" Doesn't exist. Most likely you have a p0174 (bank 2 shows lean).

If this is the case, a faulty injector seal CAN cause a "lean" code.

I'd suggest just replacing the orings. They're cheap and available at any parts store. Just tell 'em you need injector o-rings for your engine and they'll look the correct application up (2 seals per injector). There is no indication at this point you need anything more than new seals.

The injectors are pressure/friction fit. The rail is bolted down to the intake and clamp the injectors firmly in there. Just pull the rail off firmly, remove the injectors and old o-rings, lube the new ones in some clean engine oil, and reassemble.

Check the heater hose over #4 (rear passenger side). Tighten clamp if leaking.

FWIW, if you're going to be pulling the injector rail, you'd do well to replace your spark plugs at the same time. It will never be easier. Pick up a large tube of dielectric grease and use it in very liberal amounts in each COP boot.

Steve

 

Also before you do anything blow compressed air all around the area, you'll be suprized at the amount of dirt that can get trap in there. Don't want that stuff falling into the fuel system or cylinder.

 

Equally important, you have to turn the corner and accept the fact that with any vehichle you have to accept problems that occurr and fix them.
It's a state of mind or you will be unhappy either way.
Injector bodies can leak, so take a good look with the engine running to see where the gas or liquid is coming from.
You may not want to take it apart until you get the parts.
I would replace all the rings because you have to all but take all the injectors out of the fuel rail. Use a lubricant to help them seat in the rail cups when putting all back togather.

 

well i have been checking it for two days (i checked it while running) , and theres no definative spray or drip... its just moist. The injector looks wet from the top to bottom , along with the fuel rail looking a bit moist around that injector , so im guessing its just a seal (ive had honda injectors crack , and they spray like a cut arterie).

i also looked for this heater hose that you speak of , and im not seeing it. i do however see what seems to be a blowby hose that goes right over it from the intake to the throttle body... not sure if it comes from the crankcase though.

yes , the code pulled said "bank 2 lean" ... i figured that meant cylinder two , but i wasnt sure if it meant my whole #2 (pass side) rail was leaking and could result in major issues. I asked the dealership why my check engine light would blink , and they said it indicates a "hard failure" ... im hoping this just means that something is definately wrong , but fixable.


im confused however as to the cylinder locations... i thought on fords #1 was rear left (when looking from the front of the truck) , # 2 was rear right , so on and so forth alternating.. i dont understand how my rear left cylinder is #2 and my rear right cylinder is #4 ... or are you going off the firing order???


i figured on checking and possibly replacing my spark plugs when i fix this (probably tomorrow) , and i am wondering if COP means coil over plug... ive heard of it but im not sure what it is... does that mean that each plug has its own in-line coil? i was going to get the denso iridiums ( possibly platinum +4's if denso makes them) , but i am not sure if the electrical is a waste-spark that seems to have problems with platinum tips. I heard that the iridium is a little pricey , but i figure the spark plugs are the most important part of an engine , so why cheap out?

as to the ebay post about injectors , im not real familiar with these injectors or ebay , are you talking about aftermarket injectors , performance injectors , or OEM injectors? who makes them and how do they perform? will i need to re-train my CPU to new injectors, or will the pulse be the same?

one last question , will i need to remove my throttle body to get to my fuel rails? the drivers side looks pretty scraggly as far as FORD stuffing as much crap into a small space as possible , and im a "clean look" kinda guy. anyone had any experience relocating any of this jumble so that its a little cleaner looking???


-hova

 

One think to think about is maybe the PO did some work and didn't get that fuel rail seated all the way if he changed the plugs. When I changed my plugs a few months ago and removed/reinstalled that same rail I had to loosen it up and push on it alittle more. Compared both rails and do they look the same.... seated wise???

 

The cylinder numbering looking at the motor from the front left side is front to rear 1,2,3,4. Right front to rear is 5,6,7,8.
Ox sensors are all cylinders bank 1 and all cylinders bank 2.
Bank 1 is the cylinders 1 thru 4.
Bank 2 is the cylinders 5 thru 8.
There are a number of different fault conditions that result in different Ox sensors action and resulting in different codes.
1. A Genuine rich running condition.
...Leaky injectors, fuel regulator going hi on pressure, missfire.
2. Un-accounted for air after the mass air meter, results in a different reaction from the Ox sensors.
3. Leak of air into the exhaust ahead of the Ox sensors.
4. Air meter not reacting properly to the airflow. Dirty, faulty etc.
5. Mutiple problems at the same time.
You have to be awhere of how these show up in code.
Question is; what conditions do you have?
I don't know what your faults are but bring the info to consider in working them out.
You have to know what you are looking for unless a lot of luck comes your way.

 

if bank two is the right side of the motor , then my main concern would be with the wet injector... i took it to advanced , not the dealership. they cant pinpoint my codes there , so im just going to start with the o-tings and go from there. if i notice anything funny , i will replace the whole injector from the get go...

well i also noticed a decent ticking noise along with a bit of a low whirring , and i originally thought the tick was the lifter , but after closer listening , it only happens upon acceleration , not idle .... and its more of a pfft than a tick... im thinking exhaust gasket somewhere...

and the whir im just going to attribute either to a crappy tensioner , a crappy belt , or a bad pulley on something (going to take the belt off to see if its something with a pulley)...

so youre saying all that holds them in the motor is the fuel rail? that seems kinda goof yto me
'


hova

 

Right side...left side...etc.

You have to orient right vs left as if sitting in the driver's seat, not standing in front of your bumper looking at the engine.

This is Ford's convention for naming the sides. It also applies to front wheel drive vehicles if you mentally rotate the engine 90 degrees CCW.

 

ok... so then my #2 bank would be the left side of the motor when sitting in the drivers seat... how about i refer to this from here on out as the drivers side...


ok , so to update my dilemma , i havent driven her in 2 days , and i was going to start on it tonight , but due to circumstances beyond my control , its pushed back till this weekend. I did however climb up and poke around a bit , and noticed that my fuel rail is still pretty moist. It looks like its got some capilary seepage along the weld where the two tubes are connected (cant tell if its just spotwelded or welded the whole length of the rail) . Im wondering if this may be a rail problem , or just an o-ting thats causing this.

my main concern isnt even with the rail or the injector , its all the crap thats on top of the rail and injectors that looks pretty brittle (most of it is lines and wires that i suppose i could just take a picture of as i disassemble it) , but some of it i cant tell if its vacuum lines , and also my power steering res is right above my rail.

you guys think a chiltons would help any , or should i just use some common sense and hope im not lacking?


hova

 

Sounds like you found your leak. If the rail has a hair line crack it could be weeping/seeping fuel. If you can find a good welder it can be fixed. We got a guy around here that can weld anything. even cast iron. I guess doing it for 30 years helps too.