OK, based on my reading of these message boards over the last few month I'm sure that I am about to hurt a lot of feelings. But I have to ask a blunt questions - are most engine mods talked about here really worthless.

Here's the basis for the question:

My mechanic, a master mechanic with 30
years of experience who personally owns
8 Cobras form all vintages, is trying to talk me out of virtually every engine
mod that I wanted to do to my new F150. Remember, he is trying to talk me out of
giving him money.

In particular, he is adament about not using the K&N filter system in any configuration because of warranty considerations and dubious performance gains.

He does not want me to put a cat back exhaust system on (I wanted the Gibson Side Swept). He also questions any performance gains on this mod and maintains that the engine is set up by the factory to operate at peak efficiency.

He thinks these air flow mods are for show and sound and argues that the reason folks buy into their effectiveness is that they are promoted heavily by auto mags dependant on aftermarket advertising dollars.

The only mods he will support would be the
pully change (minus the alternator pulley)
and a supercharger.

Even though I trust him, I'm interested in other opinions. Please, no reponses from suppliers; just regular folks.

------------------
2001 F-150 4.6L XLT SS 4X2 Supercab Short Bed
Toreador Red w/ Silver + Medium Graphite Inside

4 Speed Automatic, 3.55 LS Rear, Captains Chairs, Class III Tow Package?,
Sliding Rear Window, Cast Aluminum Wheels, Leer 100LE Color Matched Cap, BedRug,
Catch-All Floor Mats, Lund Color Matched Interceptor Bug Shield

Mods wanted: Wet Okole Seat Covers, Window Tint

Hauls: Boston Whaler Outrage 17 w/Merc 115 Offshore
Perception Prism Kayak
Jesse, My Australian Shepherd


Factory ordered: 4/4/01

 

I have a friends uncle that is just like that. He also is still very racist! A AC cobra from the 60s is setup for peak HP, a new car or truck is not unless it is a ferrari, McLaren, Lambo, Porsche.

I would tell him bull**** and do it anyways. Why do the HP numbers keep going up for the same engine? Becuase they are always improving on it!

A cat back will definately free some HP. A K&N will if anything keep you from buying another airfilter again. The fords are like $15-20 each for the filters. So after 3, it pays for itself.

Really if you wanted to get some serious HP, most boltons will be minor, blower excluded. If you want the most bang for the buck, change the heads to the 5.4 PI units. This will most likely net you about 30-40hp. Cost for parts is cheap, install would be more. I would guess it would be about 1K to do them.

 

I would have to say, to be honest, most of them don't give you very much for the money especially on a stock truck. An exhaust system for example, most make very little to no hp gains, some even lose hp.They do sound good, I changed out my muffler on a new truck for better sound, if it had a blower on it, sure it would add more.Take an FIPK, a larger intake tube will flow more air, thats a given, however at lower speeds it also will kill intake air velocity, this is the reason our trucks have longer intake runners, it aids in cylinder filling at low speeds.So now it flows more air at high engine speeds, and at lower engine speed, do to the loss of "Inertia supercharging" effect(velocity)it hurts efficient cylinder filling. It also depends how you drive, if you are on it all the time a loss in the bottom end is no big deal. everthing is a trade off, you have do deside how you drive, and what you want. A blower is most definitly the best bang for the buck, after a chip. The chip allows for quick change in air and spark delivey, and tranmission functions via the EEC.

------------------
2001 F-150 XLT S-CAB 4.6 "Fully equipt, and Superchip'd!"
96 Taurus GL
93 Kenne-Bell Supercharged Mustang
"Injection is nice, but I perfer being blown!"

www.kenne-bell.com/owners.asp
http://www.corral.net/cgi-bin/member...p00000403&p&p0


86 Kawasaki ZG 1000 A-1 Concours

[This message has been edited by jstang (edited 05-25-2001).]

 

Some mods done by themselves may not make much of an improvement, or at least not an improvement that can be felt. If you make the common mods, I don't see how you can't get an improvemnt. Just be realistic. Don't go to a dual 3" exhaust. And don't expect to get an extra 100 HP.

The single mod that made the biggest improvement was the Superchip. Next was the muffler/intake mod (I did them at the same time).

Again, individually you may not notice much. But altogether, you will get an improvement. My truck is much quicker now than before my mods, no question about it.

Is it all worth the cost? If you want to get the most out of your truck, I think it is. If I bought a new truck tomorrow, I would make the same mods.

------------------
Danny
'98 F-150 Std., RC, SB, 4x2, 4.2L, 5-sp, 3.08, AC, speed control, rear slider.
Mods: Mobil 1 engine oil, Red Line D4-ATF trans fluid, Edelbrock IAS shocks, 50 Series Flowmaster, K&N with airbox mod, Perma-Cool electric radiator fan, Superchip, ASP underdrive pulley

 

I am a street-racer with over 38 years of pedal-to-the-floor experience; and as such have some right to offer an opinion and make recommendations.

One of my favorite racing recommendations is to advise the fellow that I'm about to race at the traffic light that he should start out in second gear.

Now, how does My advice measure up to that which you received from your master mechanic?

 

I have a K&N, WMS Velocity Tube, and Sweptside exhaust on my truck. I drove it for a about a month before the mods and was getting 13-15 mpg and decent performance in the stock setup. After the mods, I my mileage went up to 15-16mpg, and I could tell the difference in power in my truck.

I'll bet your mechanic couldn't even tell I have a performance exhaust on my truck except for the chrome tip. The sweptside is very quiet. I put the intake on first and felt a difference in power. Then I put the exhaust on and got another noticeable increase in power.

I don't care what brand or vintage vehicle it is, there is always room for tweaking. You always need to be adjusting carburated engines to get peak performance out of them.

Go ahead and do what ever mods you feel like. Exhaust and intake mods are easy enough that you could do them yourself.

------------------
2000 F150 XLT 4X4 Off Road 5.4L Reg. Cab 3.55

Performance Enhancemets:
K&N
WMS Velocity Tube
Gibson Sweptside

Audio Enhancements:
All of the above, plus
Sony C7000X HU
Cerwin-Vega SS2502 components(Front)
Blaupunkt PCxp573s(Rear)

Radio-delay mod

Other Enhancements:
Extang Black Max Tonneau Cover
Keyless Entry Keypad
Eurolite Xenon Fusion Bulbs - Headlights and Fogs

 

<In particular, he is adament about not using the K&N filter system in any configuration because of warranty considerations and dubious performance gains.>

K&N does a less effective job at getting the small grit than the stock air filter. If you drive in extremely dusty conditions, it's likely to increase engine wear due to oil and upper cylinder exposure to grit. A clean stock paper filter will flow just about as well, but it does deteriorate rather quickly as it traps dust. The K&N does retain its flow capbility due to its nature, but that's not necessarily a good thing.

<He does not want me to put a cat back exhaust system on (I wanted the Gibson Side Swept). He also questions any performance gains on this mod and maintains that the engine is set up by the factory to operate at peak efficiency.>

A low-restriction exhaust could actually cost you a few lb/ft of torque at low revs; it does help at high revs. You decide where your engine spends most of its life.

<He thinks these air flow mods are for show and sound and argues that the reason folks buy into their effectiveness is that they are promoted heavily by auto mags dependant on aftermarket advertising dollars.>

And they sound cool. But for otherwise stock engines, the bang for the buck is not there. The A/F and exhaust mods won't do anything for your low-rev torque, though they might help above 4K RPM.

<The only mods he will support would be the
pully change (minus the alternator pulley)
and a supercharger.>

A blower will definately help, and is quite effective, but is likely to reduce engine life, especially if you get into a pre-ignition situation.

Interestingly enough, with a blower, the air intake and exhaust mods may actually do a lot more good than in a stock engine, due to increased air flow.

And while the pulley change is relatively cheap, it's not without its own downside; if you spend a lot of time idling in hot weather with the A/C on, the A/C may end up being bit less effective with the underdrive pulleys. Ditto on PS pressure at parking lot speeds.

Like every mechanical device, our trucks are engineering compromises. The above mods improve certain aspects of performnance, but they are not without their downsides. The key in all cases is to understand your goals.

Mods that increase high-rev HP without increasing low- and mid-range torque are wasted in a truck, especially with an automatic. For the heavy beasts we drive, torque is king, and the more of it, the better. So, 7-9 PSI of inercooled boost, along with bottom end and piston enhancements to handle it for a reasonably long time is much more likely to give you long-term grins. If the above sounds familiar, just look at the spec sheet for the Lightning... The thing boogies because of heroic torque output, not because of a 7K RPM power peak with a wimpy mid-range...

 

The only mod on my truck so far is a K&N drop in filter. My next mod will probably be a Gibson SS exhaust. After that I think that I would get more bang for my buck with transmission mods. I won't buy a chip because of the premium gas price, and I don't need a race truck.

------------------
2000 F-150 XLT Supercab 4X4,5.4,Off Road,Tow Pkg

 

I have always wanted a K&N air filter but never bought one because they cost alot more than just a paper filter.Well I finally bought one and now I have read some post here that it does not filter out fine dust particles as well as the regular paper filters.

I hate changing anything from stock just because a this.

 

bolt ons do nothing? What? I don't get any of you? There is a member who has nothing but these types of mods,. One of his best runs in the 1/4 mile was a 14.53. Add a bad case of wheelspin to a Lightning,and you'd run about the same. I'll stick with my power sapping engine mods,thank you very much......My .02 cents,and opinion ,,,,98
Oops,forgot about this;Ford sells the K&N filter on their intake kits,the only difference is the dye in the oil used on it is blue. Go figure.
------------------
98 F-150 4.6 Litre XLT 4x2 Ext. cab
prarie tan/tan int.
Yep,it has alot of stuff installed on it,I just got sick of lugging that huge sig. around,hehe
Come and see my newest pictures@ www.my-f150.com

Everything is shown there,except for the Superchip,Thanks Mike T!!

FENDER GUITARS ROCK!!!

Now,if it only looked like this in real life


[This message has been edited by 98SCREAMER (edited 05-25-2001).]

 

I have to agree with you that some modifications don't seem to improve the performance. One that I have tried is the Superchip. I spoke with Mike in the Computer Chips forum. He was very knowledgeable about the changes the chip makes to the computer. I did notice a difference in the performance of my truck after making just that 1 change.

Regarding airflow management. The more air you allow the engine to pull in the more power it can make. If you go WOT and the engine needs a big gulp of air, the less restrictions you have on the incoming air the quicker your engine will build RPM's.

Regarding the exhaust. The quicker you can get rid of the spent fuel/air the better. Think of drag headers. Roughly 1.5 feet of open tubing. I don't know if the greatist restriction is the cat, the muffler or the length of tubing. But I would think that any improvement in air flow in any of these areas would improve performance.

To look at one extreme, if you restricted either the intake or exhaust you would reduce performance. So, I would think if you opened either end up more it should improve it. My 2 cents.

Anyone who's run dyno before and after making mod's, what have you found?

------------------
1999 F-150, 4x4ORP, 3.73LSD Toreador Red, Superchip.

 

hey matt: "i have a friend's uncle"... what are you doing with him? btw, what's wrong with "still being very racist"? oh, oregon--never mind.

------------------
2001 Lightning, silver, escort 8500, ranger 2950dx dual band radio, wilson 2000 ant., bot/picked up on 05/08/01, 1997 f150 xlt 4.6L 4x2 with: a/f one fipk, superchip, optima battery, bbk 75mm throttle body, edelbrock ias shocks--2001 lightning to come(she came--see above)

 

HI!... I posted a responce to this thread this afternoon, but for some reason it did'nt show up. DAM THREAD! I'll repeat what I said before. My truck ran 16.01E.T stock and with just simple BOLT-0NS i'm now running 14.52E.T with fuel and traction problems. With a few more mods I should be able to go very high 13's naturally asperated.

------------------
NEAL " THE H.P FREAK" E-MAIL :nnewman@sympatico.ca
'99' F-150 XLT SPORT, oxford white, reg cab shortbox stepside,5.4, auto, 4.10L.S, captain's chairs, bedliner, GTS carbon fiber headlight covers, ***** CEPECK clear halogen driving lights, GTS slotted tailight covers (painted oxford white), fiberglass smooth wiper cowl (painted OXFORD WHITE), FORD locking lug nuts, tinted windows,true duel exhaust with 2.5 inch mandrel bent pipes and FLOWMASTER 3 chamber mufflers with 3' tailpipes exiting before the rear wheel like the LIGHTNING, HELLWIG rear stabalizer bar, 3 AUTOMETER guage pods, filled with tranny temp, engine temp, and oil preasure AUTOMETER "PHANTOM" guages,custom fabricated air intake trac and huge K/N filter, TPS mod, BELLTECH 2-inch rear drop, custom programed SUPERCHIP "FLIP-CHIP", BAUMANN ENGINEERING shift kit (on stage 5 setting)BYPASS CLUTCH CONTROL VALVE/PREASURE REGULATOR VALVE, ASP POWER PULLEYS, custom tig welded and ported JBA "JET BLACK coated headers, twin DERALE 16 INCH ELECTRIC FANS, PERMA COOL 14"/10" tranny cooler with 10" electric fan, PERMA-COOL external tranny filter, custom ported (STOCK) throttle body, custom digital air intake temp sensor, custom ported TB intake elbow, relocated ATS, FORD RACING 24LB injectors, RUSSELL stainless steel braided tranny lines with fittings.


FUTURE MODS : BBK 75MM THROTTLE BODY, 80MM PRO-M MASS AIR METER, AADI F1 RAM AIR HOOD WITH CUSTOM FABRICATED RAM AIR SET-UP, CAL-TRAC TRACTION BARS, EXTRUDE HONED INTAKE MANIFOLD, SHM CUSTOM FUEL RAILS, 90/10 FRONT CE SHOCKS, 70/30 REAR CE SHOCKS, BELL TECH 2/4 DROP, EXPEDITION CENTER CONSOLE, HARLEY DAVISON F-150 LOWER FRONT VALANCE (painted oxford white) and a KENNE BELL BLOWZILLA SUPERCHARGER.

ESTIMATED H.P TO DATE : 340H.P / 425ft/lbs of torque.

CURRENT PERFORMANCE : 1/4 MILE - 14.52E.T * MPH - 93.73 * 0-60MPH - 5.8 * 1/8 MILE - 9.2 * 60 FT - 2.0

OTHER TOYS : "83" PRO STREET FORD RANGER : 351-w stroked to 408c.i 625H.P (natural), 875H.P with 250H.P "BIG SHOT" N.O.S kit, tubbed (crome moly tubing), 12 point chrome moly roll cage, 4-link with coil overs, MUSTANG II front suspension, c-4 tranny (race prepped), 4000rpm stall converter(8 INCH), 3" chrome moly driveshaft,AUTOMETER guages, 16.50 MICKEY THOMPSON rear tires, 4" M/T front tires, CENTERLINE CON-VO PRO rims, fiberglass hood - bumper - prostock hood scoop, wishbone trac-link, two chrome moly driveshaft loops, 16 gallon JAZ fuel cell,etc

 

HEy neal, will you e-mail me the detailed TPS sensor mod that you did and also your expert advise as to why my rpms take so long to drop after I let off on the throttle? This problem showed up after I installed the BBK 75mm throttle body. My e-mail is peties3@aol.com

 

nukeboot-Tell me where Mr Master works so I can avoid his work.