Which oil filter?
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 1999
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From: Clarksville, Tennessee
Rest assured, oil analysis would tell all.
All of the necessary items are included in analysis.
Viscosity,
TBN/TAN
soot
oxidation
NOX
water
fuel
glycol
wear metal analysis
and antiwear additive analysis(zinc and Phosphorus
Analysis is really the only way to tell wheather the oil is still servicable or not.
wiping it on a paper towel or any other method doesn't mean a think.
Hope this helps
To learn more about analysis check out this web site:
http://www.noria.com/
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Lube-Direct
New Lubrication Forums
All of the necessary items are included in analysis.
Viscosity,
TBN/TAN
soot
oxidation
NOX
water
fuel
glycol
wear metal analysis
and antiwear additive analysis(zinc and Phosphorus
Analysis is really the only way to tell wheather the oil is still servicable or not.
wiping it on a paper towel or any other method doesn't mean a think.
Hope this helps
To learn more about analysis check out this web site:
http://www.noria.com/
------------------
Lube-Direct
New Lubrication Forums
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,160
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From: Clarksville, Tennessee
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by FamilyRide:
doorslammer69,
I didn't look at pricing after buying the 6 or 12 month "membership" but for roughly $100 retail for a case of Series 2000, about 25% off is worth the $10 or almost worth $20 for the membership.
I just sounds like it would make sence to become a dealer, to get good pricing.
One more for anyone else, what about this vicosity thing? I know Ford requires other F series as well as Expy's to use 5w-30 so has anyone gotten feedback from Ford about using a 0w-30 like the Series 2000?
</font>
doorslammer69,
I didn't look at pricing after buying the 6 or 12 month "membership" but for roughly $100 retail for a case of Series 2000, about 25% off is worth the $10 or almost worth $20 for the membership.
I just sounds like it would make sence to become a dealer, to get good pricing.
One more for anyone else, what about this vicosity thing? I know Ford requires other F series as well as Expy's to use 5w-30 so has anyone gotten feedback from Ford about using a 0w-30 like the Series 2000?
</font>
As a preferred customer you are not a dealer. You can only buy for yourself and not to resell.
I think it makes sense to become a preferred customer because it is such a hassle free way to buy, just call 1800number and they ship it to your door!
As far as the viscosity thing goes. The new Series2000 0w30 was formulated to be used instead of 5w30. They actually tested it at higher temps and it performs better than Amsoil own 5w30 and every other 5w30 out there.
But the good thing about it, is that you get immediate flow upon start up--This stuff has a pour point of -76F.
But since it is a (w30) it still has the proper viscosity at temp just like all the other w30 oils
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Joined: Nov 1999
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From: Clarksville, Tennessee
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rick99:
Amsoil is marketed by a pyramid sales organization named Amway. The only people here I have ever heard rave reviews from are those with a vested interest.</font>
Amsoil is marketed by a pyramid sales organization named Amway. The only people here I have ever heard rave reviews from are those with a vested interest.</font>
I'm sorry but that is not true. There are alot of folks that use Amsoil that don't have a vest interest. Also there are folks that have tried Amsoil and liked it so much and the quality of the products that they became dealers just to buy for themselves and their friends.
I used Mobil 1 10w30 synthetic oil in a 87 F150 and put 250,000 on the original 300 CID 6 with never an engine problem. The engine has 300,000 miles on it now with no problems.
That is great. Mobil 1 is a great oil, as long as you change it every once in a while
The absurd claimed Amsoil oil change intervals would void any warranty. Why would I go with some absurd change interval when Mobil 1 has served me well with 5000 mile oil change intervals. Even conventional oils nowadays are so high quality, there is no reason why 200,000 miles+ can't be achieved from any engine.
That is true that just about any oil when changed accordingly can make an engine last a long time.
With Amsoil, Mobil 1 and other synthetics the engine will not only last, but will run more effeciently, run cool and will have less chance of breakdowns when compared with a conventional oil.
Buy Amsoil and after everyone in the Pyramid has taken their cut, and add shipping you've been screwed.
As far as pricing goes, that is just not true. As a matter of fact I just priced a barrel of our Compressor oil for a large textile manufacture(they make jeans for cowboy's) and the synthetic stuff they were using was about $1700 a barrel. Well our stuff that had the same specification was around $800 a barrel.
Also go out and look for some Redline synthetic or Royal Purple, or NEO synthetic and I would bet you $1 that Amsoil is cheaper or just about the same price.
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Senior Member
Joined: Nov 1999
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From: Clarksville, Tennessee
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by signmaster:
Conocoan,
Simply put, when I used Amsoil it was causing a leak after approx 3000 miles of use. The leak wasn't present when the oil was new, and never happened with other oils. Obviously something was taking place within that time frame. The local distributor couldn't explain it other than to offer that it must be caused by oil contamination due to blow by. If this was true, then obviously the other oils weren't affected by this "problem".
The conventional oils used in the vehicle were Castrol or Penzoil, the other synthetic was Mobil 1. Mobil 1 and Amsoil filters were used with all oils.
I have a friend who had a similar experience. We were talking about it and decided to try an idea. He is a painter by trade and suggested we take some timings with a viscosity cup. The oil from his bike only had about 2000 miles on it when he drained it. It flowed quicker through the cup than the new Amsoil did.
We quickly concluded that this didn't prove squat, that all oils must change somewhat after use. So he kept the times in his toolbox. At the next change with conventional oil he did the same thing, comparing new to used. The change in the flow of the conventional oil was actually less than the change in the Amsoil.
I don't know if oil analysis would show any problems like this. I'm not against synthetics, my experience with Mobil 1 was good. I won't try Amsoil again unless someone can provide a logical answer to the problem I encountered; then MAYBE.</font>
Conocoan,
Simply put, when I used Amsoil it was causing a leak after approx 3000 miles of use. The leak wasn't present when the oil was new, and never happened with other oils. Obviously something was taking place within that time frame. The local distributor couldn't explain it other than to offer that it must be caused by oil contamination due to blow by. If this was true, then obviously the other oils weren't affected by this "problem".
The conventional oils used in the vehicle were Castrol or Penzoil, the other synthetic was Mobil 1. Mobil 1 and Amsoil filters were used with all oils.
I have a friend who had a similar experience. We were talking about it and decided to try an idea. He is a painter by trade and suggested we take some timings with a viscosity cup. The oil from his bike only had about 2000 miles on it when he drained it. It flowed quicker through the cup than the new Amsoil did.
We quickly concluded that this didn't prove squat, that all oils must change somewhat after use. So he kept the times in his toolbox. At the next change with conventional oil he did the same thing, comparing new to used. The change in the flow of the conventional oil was actually less than the change in the Amsoil.
I don't know if oil analysis would show any problems like this. I'm not against synthetics, my experience with Mobil 1 was good. I won't try Amsoil again unless someone can provide a logical answer to the problem I encountered; then MAYBE.</font>
What you should have done is kept using Amsoil for say another 10,000-20,000 miles and possibly the seal swell agents in Amsoil synthetic would have cause the leak to either slow or stop completely.
BTW, I would rather contend with a small leak knowing that my engine is running smoother,and the inside is free of sludge and varnish,
Also there are some differences to Mobil 1 and Amsoil. Generally Amsoil has more additives to combat soot and acid formation. Also Amsoil has more of the expensive ester basestocks than Mobil 1 which are better for high temps, but also are more prone to find their way out through seals and such.
Just because they say synthetic, doesnt' mean that the oils are exactly the same.
I hope this explaination made sense. If not you can email me and I will try to help you further.
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Joined: May 2000
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From: NW Louisiana, USA
Signmaster,
Thanks for the kickback and, I understand your logic. Had I been using Mobil 1 trouble free, changed oils and then developed problems, well I too would be apt to blame the only thing that’s changed. Which in this case is Amsoil. I also applaud your attempts to compare the two oils in the real world using the facts at hand.
Msparks says:
Simply put its about 3,000 miles when amsoil has started to clean out your engine from sludge and varnish. At that time probably any or your gaskets that were cracked or shrunk would allow some oil to get by.
---------------------------------------------
I guess that’s plausible. But how much pre-existing sludge and varnish can any engine oil clean out? I can see this happening to a certain degree but my understanding is that detergents in oil just keeps the contaminates suspended so they can be trapped by the oil filter.
---------------------------------------------
Msparks says:
What you should have done is kept using Amsoil for say another 10,000-20,000 miles and possibly the seal swell agents in Amsoil synthetic would have cause the leak to either slow or stop completely.
---------------------------------------------
Seal swelling agents? No offense, but you have to admit that sounds like a good line from a snake oil salesman. I’m not saying it’s not true, just never heard of anything like that. Which of course is what this thread is all about. Education.
Here’s what I think. I tend to doubt that Amsoil caused the seals to start leaking. I would think that if they were going to leak, they would have leaked with Mobil 1. But, that’s just my opinion based on the belief, (and hope) that Amsoil is similar to Mobil 1, just better.
On the pro side of synthetics. I once made the mistake of buying a finish mower that attaches to a 4-wheeler. It had an 8 horse engine which wasn’t near enough. The 4-wheeler had to creep through the grass in Louisiana heat. The engine would get so hot that it would burn your legs through your pants. I ran it like that for one summer before selling the mower. During that time I ran Mobil 1 20w50 and the engine never showed any adverse affects or lost any compresion. I think that says a lot for Mobil 1 and Honda engines.
[This message has been edited by Conocoan (edited 01-29-2001).]
Thanks for the kickback and, I understand your logic. Had I been using Mobil 1 trouble free, changed oils and then developed problems, well I too would be apt to blame the only thing that’s changed. Which in this case is Amsoil. I also applaud your attempts to compare the two oils in the real world using the facts at hand.
Msparks says:
Simply put its about 3,000 miles when amsoil has started to clean out your engine from sludge and varnish. At that time probably any or your gaskets that were cracked or shrunk would allow some oil to get by.
---------------------------------------------
I guess that’s plausible. But how much pre-existing sludge and varnish can any engine oil clean out? I can see this happening to a certain degree but my understanding is that detergents in oil just keeps the contaminates suspended so they can be trapped by the oil filter.
---------------------------------------------
Msparks says:
What you should have done is kept using Amsoil for say another 10,000-20,000 miles and possibly the seal swell agents in Amsoil synthetic would have cause the leak to either slow or stop completely.
---------------------------------------------
Seal swelling agents? No offense, but you have to admit that sounds like a good line from a snake oil salesman. I’m not saying it’s not true, just never heard of anything like that. Which of course is what this thread is all about. Education.
Here’s what I think. I tend to doubt that Amsoil caused the seals to start leaking. I would think that if they were going to leak, they would have leaked with Mobil 1. But, that’s just my opinion based on the belief, (and hope) that Amsoil is similar to Mobil 1, just better.
On the pro side of synthetics. I once made the mistake of buying a finish mower that attaches to a 4-wheeler. It had an 8 horse engine which wasn’t near enough. The 4-wheeler had to creep through the grass in Louisiana heat. The engine would get so hot that it would burn your legs through your pants. I ran it like that for one summer before selling the mower. During that time I ran Mobil 1 20w50 and the engine never showed any adverse affects or lost any compresion. I think that says a lot for Mobil 1 and Honda engines.
[This message has been edited by Conocoan (edited 01-29-2001).]
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 1999
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From: Clarksville, Tennessee
It's true about the seal swell issue.
PAO's have a natural tendency to swell seals,
and Esters have a tendency to shrink seals.
Hence the reason a carefully blended base of different type of synthetics are needed to get a desired effect
Mobil 1 used to be straight PAO, now they have reformulated with a Tri synthetic blend.
Amsoil has been blending different synthetics for years, but it seems that Mobil invented "tri-synthetic". LoL
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From: Virginia Beach, VA
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by msparks:
Simply put its about 3,000 miles when amsoil has started to clean out your engine from sludge and varnish. At that time probably any or your gaskets that were cracked or shrunk would allow some oil to get by.
What you should have done is kept using Amsoil for say another 10,000-20,000 miles and possibly the seal swell agents in Amsoil synthetic would have cause the leak to either slow or stop completely.
BTW, I would rather contend with a small leak knowing that my engine is running smoother,and the inside is free of sludge and varnish,
Also there are some differences to Mobil 1 and Amsoil. Generally Amsoil has more additives to combat soot and acid formation. Also Amsoil has more of the expensive ester basestocks than Mobil 1 which are better for high temps, but also are more prone to find their way out through seals and such.
</font>
Simply put its about 3,000 miles when amsoil has started to clean out your engine from sludge and varnish. At that time probably any or your gaskets that were cracked or shrunk would allow some oil to get by.
What you should have done is kept using Amsoil for say another 10,000-20,000 miles and possibly the seal swell agents in Amsoil synthetic would have cause the leak to either slow or stop completely.
BTW, I would rather contend with a small leak knowing that my engine is running smoother,and the inside is free of sludge and varnish,
Also there are some differences to Mobil 1 and Amsoil. Generally Amsoil has more additives to combat soot and acid formation. Also Amsoil has more of the expensive ester basestocks than Mobil 1 which are better for high temps, but also are more prone to find their way out through seals and such.
</font>
I had used the Amsoil engine flush before putting the Amsoil in. I didn't like the idea that some of this solution would be left in the engine. Of course this worried me more after the oil was in. I decided to do a filter change at 2000 miles or so in case of any extra grime being filtered out after the flush. Then change the oil at 4000 or so miles.
At right around 3000 the leak showed up. Found the source, and convinced myself it had something to do with the engine flush solution. So I changed the oil, the leak stopped and didn't show up again until a few months (and another 3000 or so miles) had passed.
My main concern lies with the fact that in 3000 miles use, something had changed to allow the oil to leak. Even after the second change, the leak didn't occur until the oil had some miles on it.
My second concern was one of being lazy. Cleaning the driveway every couple of weeks took more time than changing the oil every 5000 miles.
I appreciate your response though, and do understand how different formulations would have different properties.
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From: Clarksville, Tennessee
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by signmaster:
I had used the Amsoil engine flush before putting the Amsoil in.
</font>
I had used the Amsoil engine flush before putting the Amsoil in.
</font>
I personally think it would be better to do an early filter change(1-3 thousand miles) than to use the engine flush if it is not necessary.
Do you still have the Amsoil in?
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From: Hawaii
I've been using Amsoil oil and filters since '89. I'm not a dealer, I'm not a "preferred member", I'm just a user.
No one has mentioned Amsoil's ability to resist molecular shearing. MS is the mechanism that causes oil to break down.
I've read numerous studies regarding oil and filters, and from what I've seen I don't plan on using anything else. So to all you non-believers, keep it up because my local dealer has a limited stock, and I don't want to have to start ordering the stuff if I can help it.
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'00 5.4L AUTO 4X4 Lariat (Black/Silver)
'02 F-350 PSD CC DRW 6SPD 4X4 Lariat (order this year)
www.hawthorn-engineering.com
No one has mentioned Amsoil's ability to resist molecular shearing. MS is the mechanism that causes oil to break down.
I've read numerous studies regarding oil and filters, and from what I've seen I don't plan on using anything else. So to all you non-believers, keep it up because my local dealer has a limited stock, and I don't want to have to start ordering the stuff if I can help it.
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'00 5.4L AUTO 4X4 Lariat (Black/Silver)
'02 F-350 PSD CC DRW 6SPD 4X4 Lariat (order this year)
www.hawthorn-engineering.com