Sorry, but this is a LONG post....

Well folks it's happened to me!

My '99 F150 with the infamous 5.4 has been diagnosed with the dreaded "piston slap".

Let me start out by stating that I love my truck and wouldn't buy any other brand than Ford.

I bought my F150 with just under 32k miles on it. At 33k it developed the head gasket leak and was repaired under warranty. I have a little over 60k on it now and have had no other head gasket problems since. I've been a member of this forum since I bought the truck and followed the posts regarding the leaking head gasket and piston slap problems.

I bought the 100k mile extended warranty from Ford ESP.

Recently I've noticed that, when cold, my truck will sound much like a diesel for a few minutes when first started. The worst of the sound goes away in a few minutes but I still hear a pronounced knock if I drive it before letting it warm up for at least 5 minutes. Okay, my first thought was piston slap. By the way... Thanks to all of you that posted information on the piston slap problem - it was extremely helpful to me. Anyway, I downloaded the audio file of the piston slap problem and sure enough that's what my truck sounds like. I was dissapointed but it's covered under warranty.

Off to the dealer...
I took the truck to the dealer I bought it from and reported the "cold start engine knock" and waited to hear from them that they diagnosed the piston slap problem. Unfortunately, they called me back and said that the sound was normal for my truck - especially with 60k miles on it. That response from them was not totally unexpected after reading many, many posts from you folk regarding your experiences with the dealer on the first visit. Of course I brought up the fact that I was an "informed" consumer and that their initial diagnosis was unsatisfactory. I went on to describe that I had documentation from multiple sources that supported that my truck was, in fact, suffering from the piston slap problem. My engine was built on 3-15-99. From all I read this engine was built before the new update changes took affect.

My truck was left overnight with them to be sure it was completely cold when it was started.

The service writer told me that his hands were tied and that the technician that worked on my truck said that there was a "slight" ticking sound and it went away almost immediately after startup. The service writer told me that he had never heard of any "piston slap" problem and that they rarely replace any engine on an F150. I expressed my extreme dissapointment in his response and explained that I somewhat expected it and told him of my "internet" research material. Anyway, the service writer told me to come in and pick up the truck. I told him that I would be in to pick it up but I was bringing along the FORD TSB information and wanted to talk with the technician that worked on my truck.

I arrived and was generally pushed to just pick up my truck without further discussion. I was finally allowed to speak with the tech after some heated words with the service writer. Luckilly the somewhat frustrated service writer left the service tech and I alone while I showed the TSB to the service tech and discussed my take on the problem. I asked the teck flat out whether or not he had ever heard of the piston slap problem. He said that he had and it was somewhat common. He went on to describe that he definitely heard the knock I described (not a "slight" knock that the service writer described) and that he put my VIN in the computer to check on possible problems. He said he was surprised to find that the TSB's 12798 & 12799 did not come up on his computer. He went on to describe that they "used to" and he was confused why they didn't anymore because he was specifically looking for them. Hmmm... What is Ford trying to hide from their own techs? Some other diagnostic possibilities came up in his database but no mention of any internal engine component problems. This tech, "Tim" said that he felt it was clearly piston slap. Well there were the magic words I was hoping for. I gave Tim a copy of the TSB's and he read them in front of me. His view is that I'm entitiled to a new engine. The service manager was unavailable to discuss this with me so I'm stuck driving a rental car (Chevy Metro) while I wait for the service manager to make a decision.

So even though the dealer has not agreed to replace the engine yet, I'm encouraged by the service technicians diagnosis and willingness to help me out. I'm very dissapointed in the "corporate" response I got from the service writer regarding this situation. He almost word-for-word said what I read on other engine problem posts.

I'm waiting to hear back from the service manager this morning. I'll post an update when I hear more.

I welcome any hints from you folks regarding how to handle this problem if the dealer does not agree to replace the engine as the TSB's so clearly say they will.

Thanks!

 

After my 99 leaker and slapper was replaced with an FQR that also slapped, they told me Ford would not replace it for "just" piston slap...

 

The dealer STILL says this is normal engine noise!!!!

I can't believe this crap!

The dealer is coming back now and telling me that the noise is normal and that I should consider a "decarbon" procedure to eliminate the noise! They say that the FORD TSB's 12798 & 12799 don't apply any more because even after Ford replaced the engines, the noise came back. So what they are telling me is that the new engines have the same problem! I am NOT HAPPY!!!!

I'm going to take it to a different dealer and let them have a stab at it. Hopefully I'll have more luck there!

 

Man mine sounds like a deisel when it starts up too. Is that the first sign of piston slap??

 

Well, I support you in your effort to get a replacement engine. However, there are cases where the replacement engine used more gas and many still had piston slap.

There's also the statistic that piston slap does not translate into engine failure. So far, I have not heard of piston slapping engines failing because of it. There are members here with close to 200k on their slapping engines.

So, if Ford doesn't replace the engine, I don't think you really need to worry that your engine will fail because of it. Just keep regularly servicing the engine with a quality oil and filter.

I know that if my 5.4L engine starts slapping, I'll get it documented towards the end of my warranty period and make a final decision on pursuing the replacement of it. At this point in time, I don't think I will.

 

just got mine(99 f150) back after getting a new engine put in. it leaked and knocked. it had 61000 miles at the time. thankfully i got the extended warenty, as it 100% covered the new motor. luckily the dealer was great, and didnt put up much of a fight over it. so there are some good dealers out there. good luck on getting a new engine.

 

A good number of members had their slappers replaced..only to get an engine that was actually worse than the first. Many were happy with the FQR..however...some said they wished they had kept the original engine. Often times, the only thing wrong with the original engine was that it made the dreaded slapping noise from time to time. The FQR engines would eventually leak oil, use more fuel, have other problems and frequently develop the slap like the original it replaced.

After reading many posts like this, I decided if any of my 5.4s were to develop the slap..I would most likely keep the original engine. So far I've been very lucky....3 5.4L F-150s...and no slap...no leaks. very mild vibration from time to time in the rear from 62-66 mph...but no bid deal.

 

I can honestly say that when my 99 leaker and slapper was replaced with an FQR, the FQR was much stronger and got better fuel mileage. However, from day one, the FQR also has piston slap, but not as bad as the original.

 

Has anyone asked their dealer if we can replace these engines with the Lincoln 5.4 DOHC motor? Does it have similar issues since the bottom half of the motor is the same?

I think the cost to ford is around $4K to replace the 5.4 SOHC. How much more is the DOHC? I'd be more than willing to pay the difference assuming that engine is more reliable.

 

Man, wouldn't that be nice!


e007dw, sorry 'bout your luck. I also had a '99 slapper. The tech listened for two seconds and without hesitation said the magic words. The service manager had no problem offering me a replacement motor, which I declined, seeing that the truck was a lease. I resorted to running synthetic oil (which helps) and only starting my cold truck with noone in sight (embarrassment).

We have all read posts about mixed results with replacement motors. I think it's a good idea to try a couple different dealers - you'd be surprised at the wide range of responses to this problem. The dealer that offered me a replacement without hesitation wasn't a dealer I had ever purchased anything from.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Clem

 

My 99 5.4 had PS since day one. Had the engine changed with an FQR at 30,000 miles. The FQR was great until around 45,000 miles (45K on the truck, 15k on the engine) and it started to slap and also leak at the head gasket. Mine is similar to yours in that the slap isn't as bad but at least the original engine didn't leak.

Sorry guys but I am loosing faith in this modular V8. What I wouldn't give for an old 351. But I love my truck and I won't get rid of it, so I will have to deal with the problems and fix them when the time comes.

kev

 

I have a 2001 Expy with the 5.4 and it developed PS at 10,000 miles. The dealer also told me that it was PS and it was normal noise. I began running synthetic oil and an additive the technician advised called MOA.
What is wierd is that the PS does not happen every morning. The most prominent times is after I have run to Lubbock and back (5hr trip) park it and the next morning it will allways slap. I am thinking it may be something else, say the oil draining past the filter flow back valve. Yes I use the motorcraft 820S. Does anyone have any suggestions?
I took the Expedition in before 12,000 miles, and again before 24,000 miles so that the problem is documented. According to the lemon law in Texas if you have taken it in once before 12k and again before 24k and they are still unable to fix it then you are entitled to pursue the lemon law statute. We attempted to use the lemon law statute on a Windstar in 2000 for busted piston ring (clattered all the time under load) and a long list of other problems having to do with automatic opening side doors that they did not want to fix, or were unable to keep working. I threatened to take it to arbitration and they decided to buy it back and that is when we decided to buy the Expedition.
Like others, I am going to keep the engine I have. A little rattle on cold mornings is better than some of the other problems people are having.

Get it documented so that you have a leg to stand on if and when you have engine failure. Good Luck Jeff

 

007-
If your Service Writer is worth his/her salt, they should be able to plead your case to their Svc Mgr (or Shop Foreman) who in turn would get in touch with their Ford Rep to resolve your problem. The dealership should be striving for complete customer satisfaction, but then I guess that would be in a perfect world, right!!??

Where did you find the numbers for those TSB's you referred to? They aren't filed the way you noted them in your post, which might be part of the difficulty the Tech had in finding them. Could they have been a SSM?

Good luck in resolving your problem!!

 

My 2001 5.4L (build date 12/00) started the slap at 10k miles. Truck now has 22k miles and does it intermittently. Decided to stay away from the FQR nightmare. Had it documented at the dealer just in case I change my mind. I'm meticulous on oil changes (1st at 300 miles, 2nd at 1200 miles and every 3000 since) and use only motorcraft 5W30 w/ 820S filter.

This truck replaced a '97 4.6L Windsor that was REAL REAL bad - got rid of at around 50k miles because I couldn't take it anymore! There were 2 SSM's out for that truck (don't remember the numbers) that stated this noise was normal and there were no long-term durability concerns, but no TSB's. Tried various brands and weights of oil all with 820s filter and nothing helped. I thought the problem was confined to the early 4.6L Windor's but I'm finding out here that is not the case! Should have looked into more before getting the second truck. Oh well.

 

If it is any consolation my 2001 chevy z71 with the 5.3 L engine made the same noise and I recieved pretty much the same response and "it is normal song and dance". This is an extremely common problem with all GM small block V8 since 1999. My buddy has a GMC and his sounds worse than mine...he had to switch to synthetic just to quiet his engine down a little.

It is sad really to pay almost 30k for a truck and shortly after you drive it off the lot it starts to sounds like a diesel. Not that I mind the noise but everything I have research does indicate that piston slap will over time cause damage to the engine. The extent of the damage seems to be based on how bad the engine slaps and how well engine is maintained. Using thicker oils to help provide some extra level of protect against the effects.

I tried to get Chevy to replace the engine even after the service department documented the problem. They basically offered me an extented warranty just for that particular problem and then told me to have a nice day....and I could go to the better business bureau if to file a complaint for retribution. What a pain in the butt, not to mention the screwing I got after investing that much in a truck.

Oh well, I finally told chevy after a few runs around the bush they just lost a customer and many more if I could help it. I sold my truck with 18K on the odo for what I owed and will not buy another chevy...ever....!

I am wanting to get a dodge cummins....my sister has a 2004 4x4 2500 and it is a great truck....it pulls like crazy and gets almost 20 mpg. Take a second to look at the turbo diesel registry for the dodge cummins....www.tdr.com.....satisfaction rate is over 96%. Dodge has on many occasions gone the exta mile for customers without even being asked. They have proactively called new truck owners for buy back or replacement when a few of the trucks were caught in a hurricane and exposed to salt water....lots of it......for some reason they slipped through at the dock. Dodge contacted the owners and offered them new trucks and to replace any accessories the owners installed at no charge.

I would not care if I had bought a new truck and ran into a couple of problems if the company is willing to stand behind their product. I had an experience with dodge on one other occassion with the powertrain warranty on an old 90 ramcharger....they put in a new factory trans and did some engine work such as lifters and rear seal when the truck had 69,000 miles with no questions asked and at no cost to me. My experience with dodge has always been positive.

I wish I could say the same for my current ford truck and the chevy I owned. Just my 2 cents to let you know you are not alone.