Hi all,

Has anyone read the latest Car and Driver article (April 2002) entitled "American Iron"? It is a comparison of the F150, Silverado, Tundra and the new Ram. While the article itself is very fair in some respects, it also boggled my mind in others. As you can imagine the F150 (the oldest design of the four) ranked last in the evaluation. If you look at the individual scores, it ranked last in the following areas: Engine, Driveline, on-road handling, fit and finish, value and fun to drive. It also got killed in the category of on-road ride.

Although I try to remain as objective as possible when weighing the qualities of other manufacturers, it concerns me when the people doing the testing do not equip the vehicles the same way. For example, the F150 and Tundra were both equipped with the off-road package while the Chevy and Dodge were not. Unfortunately, the F150 with the FX4 package is extremely stiff and does not lend itself well to highway driving. This fact came across clear in the test scores. Although I would acknowledge that the F150 does not ride as nice as the Chevy on the highway (having driven both), I would contend there is not a four point difference (5 vs 9 for the Chevy). Additionally, although the engine is older than the rest of the trucks, it still continues to be a focus of Wards Top 10 Engine awards (6 years running -- see list of this years winners below):

-- BMW AG 3L DOHC I-6 (330 Ci)
-- BMW AG 3.2L DOHC I-6 (M3)
-- DaimlerChrysler AG 5L SOHC V-8 (Mercedes-Benz ML500)
-- Ford Motor Co. 5.4L SOHC V-8/5.4L sprchg SOHC V-8 (F-150/F-150 Lightning)
-- General Motors Corp. 4.2L DOHC I-6 (GMC Envoy)
-- General Motors Corp. Duramax 6.6L OHV trbdisl. V-8 (Chev. Silverado HD)
-- Honda Motor Co. Ltd. 2L DOHC I-4 (Acura RSX Type S)
-- Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Altima 3.5 SE)
-- Porsche AG 2.7L DOHC H-6 (Boxster)
-- Volkswagen AG 1.8L turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Jetta 1.8T)


Note that none of the engines in the other trucks made the list. It still continues to deliver the highest torque and greatest towing capacity of any truck in the mix. While we would all like to see more horesepower, I would stilll say that the engine itself definitely ranks amoung the best.

I can accept that the F150 is in need of a new design, more horsepower and (potentially) a better interior. I can also accept that fact that it may lose to the Chevy in an overall evaluation (despite the hard-core F150 part of me). I do find it incredible hard to accept that the overall winner has the weakest engine, the smallest payload and the lowest towing capacity of the bunch -- that being the Dodge Ram. In a war of looks, some would agree that the Ram is the prettiest of the bunch. However, in the war of "trucks" I would seriously have to differ with that opinion. Kind of reminds me of the class bully in elementary school -- looks tough, but if has nothing to back it up if someone called him to the table.

This all being said there were some high points and interesting facts (listed below):

o 0-60 time was third best but 1/4 mile was tied for first (16.7 @ 18mph). This is interesting since the Ford is known for it's low end torque and this data would argue that it has more at higher rpms.

o Best payload/towing capacity of the bunch

o Rated best overall styling (not bad for being 5 years old)

Thoughts?

 

I guess Dodge payed off Car & Driver first/the most.
There are way too many variables. I think we would need to see this comparison repeted several times to come up with real data. You have got to wonder how objective this group was. Why don't they compile a group made up of F150Online members. I think Ford would have a very good chance! We would also have actual experiance with the other makes.
I have not yet been convinced I have to trade in my F150 for a Dodge!

 

This arctical has been brought up time and time again. Usually Car & Driver is pretty far and seem to be unbiased, but I was shocked.
In the Motor Trend issue, The King Ranch won out of all the same trucks, except the Silverado was a 1500 HD.
The Ford 5.4L was said in the back of the artical to out perform the 6.0L Chevy. In the C&D is was beat by a 4.8L, I guess they could have got lemon or w/ zero miles on it, but Im still a little boggled.
Fit and Finish, everyone on this board knows that Chevy's are horable, and even the new Dodge is not stellar. The Tundra is compairable to a Ford, if not a % better.
The ride quality of a Chevy is slightly better that a Ford but like Cyclone said, 4 points in difference I didn't feel ether.

Just like the Motor Trend issue w/ the SUV comparo. The Evoye/Trailblazer had the same 0-60 time as the Mountainer 7.6 sec. But the Explorer and the Merc. engine was said to be sluggish.

I guess they see things differently.

 

To be fair, the same arguement could be made against the Ford since it was tested with the 5.4 and the Chevy and Dodge were tested with the smaller V8's (the 4.8 and 4.9.) As they mentioned in the article (and as we've proven true on this site many times) comparing apples to apples is pretty difficult to do. I think most of us would concede that the Chevy's 5.3 is stronger up high and offers a slighting smoother ride. On the other hand, we have considerably better looking trucks, that even the Chevy guys for the most part would agree are more reliable, and are stronger down low for towing. As you mentioned, depite having the most recent truck available, Dodge still has the the most inefficient motors available offering less power with worse gas milage ontop of the smallest payload and the lowest towing capacity. While I'd admit that painted front end helps the new Dodge out immensely, IMHO the Ford is still MUCH better looking. And last but not least, while I'd concede the Tundra is slightly more reliable and has a smoother drive train, in my opinion Tundra's are clearly the least attractive of the group, are smaller, and are offered with less cab configurations, engine choices, and options. On top of that, there's not many to choose from with most dealerships only haveing a few available on there lot. All in all, considering this is the 7th year the current model F-150 has been available, with newer models available from all of the competition, I think Ford is still pretty competitive. Now it's Ford's turn at bat with there new model.

 

Great points STX/98...

I missed the displacement difference (good catch), however, I would still think that C&D or any mag could potentially do a better job at matching the vehicles up. For example, they could choose standard criteria (like best available V-8 or entry level V-8, standard suspension, standard tire offerings, etc). I guess that would take some fun out of it though -- what would we talk about then?

Regarding the new F150. I completely agree -- by the time this one comes along the other technologies will be the aged veterans leaving the Ford to stand alone on top once again (he says with hopeful anticipation)...

 

Many of C&D's ratings are subjective, but to rate the Chevy ahead of the Ford ( or anything for that matter) in "fit and finish" is just downright puzzling. I've owned 4 new F-150's in the last 8 years; 3 of them being the current platform ( '97, '99 and '01 ) and all were well put together. In '99 I almost strayed to Chevy, going so far as to have one built. When it arrived ( after 4 months! ), I ran screaming from the dealership after I looked it over thoroughly. What a piece of $#it! I then came to my senses and ran to the Ford dealer.

 

This was a truck review done by car guys. I stopped taking it seriously after they b!tched about bumpy rides for the 3rd or 4th time.

 

Clem -- I completely agree. The overall build quality of the Ford can't be beat. The only truck that I believe can give it a run for it's money in this category is the Tundra.

eharri3 -- great point. It does seem that they chose the truck that felt and drove the most like a car...

 

Some of you provide a better analysis than the truck magazines.

Just wanted to mention that before I searched and located my used 99' supercab/flareside 4.6L, I went to more than several bodyshops (while driving a 95' Firebird). Amoung other questions, I asked them all "what domestic truck was built better?" They all stated that the late model ford was built the best and would remain "tight" for years. However, they all stated that the Chevy was lighter and would have a tendency to become "loose" prematurely.

I also have a relative that just purchased a brand new Tundra. After one week, it went back to the dealer several times because the heater quit working and when applying the brake, the oil pressure dropped! My relatives assume this is only an electrical problem, but the dealer has not comfirmed that it only is an electrical problem. After a month, it is still unresolved.

 

car and driver is VERY biased against american made vehicles IMO.

 

i'll agree that chevy's are faster than fords,and they might ride better and i have no idea about a dodge,but if i drove anything else the way i drive my f-150 it would've fallen apart after a month and these trucks with a few mods can beat em all,it allready out-towes em,the f-150 is the best and as far as i'm concerned will always be the best.who wants a rock or some ***** ram when you can have solid steel?i'm not even mentioning the tuna can tundra

 

I use to respect C&D and Motor Trend but any more they all seem biased or bought out for some reason. Not just because of this Ford thing I have felt this way for the past several years. I now read all the reviews take each one with a grain of salt, study to see what all the reviews have in common and then make my own opinions.
I know people that have always driven Chevy's and had problems and went to Ford or Dodge. I also know several that have had Fords and went to a Chevy or Dodge. IMO, I will buy what I think is the best deal for the money. If I find what I think to be a good deal on a decent Chevy or Dodge I would buy it. It just seems with my family we always wind up with Fords.

 

I have owned Dodge and Ford. I am a Ford man at heart, but I married into a Dodge family. I strayed very briefly. I had an 88 Dodge with a 318 4 speed 4X4. It was a strippo, but it was a very good work truck. Towed my Mustang well. But, it was just good as a work truck. Ride beat you to death. Then I bought a 2001 Ram QC 4X4 with a 318 automatic. Should have been the truck I would have kept for 100,000 miles.It was very nice to look at or sit in. Thats it. Any little incline would send the tranny down one or two gears on cruise control. It averaged 11 mpg. Needless to say it went down the road and the wife now drives a Hyundai Santa Fe (cheap baby wagon). So, I bought a 2001 F150 4x4 XL with the 4.2 5 speed. I have raced my buddies identically equipped 4.8 Chevy and gave him fits. Actually pulled a fender on him at 90 mph on the interstate. No way a 4.8 can hang with a 5.4. A 5.3, yeah I would say no problem. I have two coworkers with a new Dodge with the 20 inch wheels, 4x4, and the 4.7 5 speed combo. They lose speed on any incline. 5th gear is useless. One guy even said he tried a test. On the same stretch of road (70 mph), the trip computer showed better mpg in 4th gear than 5th. I think all full size trucks have good qualities. I was bummed about all of the new Chevy hype and the fact that they will surpass Ford sales this year. But, I now think it is only better for the consumer as Ford will have to improve it's truck to remain on top. We have good competition.

 

Hey doods,

ok, i have NOT read the article in car and driver, is it THIS MONTH'S? I am going to go get it, i love reading these kinds of things.
Im going to put my .02 in now, just for the sake of balancing out this. Im not going to go with which truck is better, BUT, whether Toyota sucks or not, they have a 100,000 miles warranty dont they (correct if wrong please!!). I have never been a fan of the "comparison" of thse vehicles, i think they all have pros and cons, and folks don't normally go thru the magazine and say "hey, C&D rated Dodge,Ford or Chevy the highest, im gonna go buy one". They normally drive and look at the options and get what most fits them. As stated earlier, the engine sizes were not the same if i read correctly, that in itself is screwy, its not that hard to get vehicles with the similar engines, 5.3, 5.4, 5.9. Also, i don't like the new rams, they are ugly, and they are way designed aroung the soccer mom, but thats me. When i looked for the truck i did a fairly simple comparison, i went to the three dealers, ford, chevy and dodge, and test drove the half ton trucks with the largest engine that was offered by the manf. First and foremost was power on my list, i came from a 6 cyl ford, and i hated nothing more than driving on the highway and being stuck behind some terd cause i couldnt pass. So i got in the trucks, drove them around the block, stopped, and nailed the gas, Chevy didnt do it for me, Ford was better, but the 5.9 dodge laid me back in the seat, so from that point on i was set, plus it had the solid front axle (only manf to offer in 1/2 ton) and i loved the looks of it. As for towing capacity, i have loaded my truck down with camping equip and a 18ft bass boat and that barely leveled the back end, on my buddies ford he damn near dragged his bumper.
I think it is a matter of what you like, i dont think you can go on those reviews. I think chevy gets it's business from customer loyalty and the folks that remember how a 57 chevy ran or how a 70 chevy truck pulled. Ford has alot of customer loyalty too, as for dodge, well, we all know what happened in the 80's so they sort of lost the loyalty thing. I don't race chevies, they are dogs off the line, but they wind up and catch up fast. Ford has a good top end speed and torque i think, but i havent found a vehicle that matches the low end torque of the dodge which is what i like. For offroading, towing, etc.

k doods, dont flame me, just offering oppinions!!
gonna go get that article now, give me something to read in class !

 

Dodge4x4,

The article is in the latest issue (April 2002). Good post. Just as an FYI, Dodge does have the second best low-end torque around -- the 5.9 posts 335 ft-lbs @ 3200 rpm. The Ford has the best (350 @ 2500 rpm) with the Chevy pulling third with 325 @ 4000 rpm. I owned a Dodge just prior to the Ford and the only real issue I had with it was in the area of reliability. Owned two Fords and never had any major problems. Had problems with the Chevy I owned and the Dodge with is why I returned to Ford. You are right, people will select what "they" like best based on their own personal preferences and experiences.

Good luck