Does this sound normal...or not?
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From: MS
Does this sound normal...or not?
With all the discussion about PS, i'm sure there are a few paranoid F-150 owners out there...and i may be one of them...I own a 99 F-150 5.4(5/99) with 17,000 miles.
Other than intermitant belt noises, and a occational pop' from my a/c compressor, no major complaints...
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On COLD mornings when I start my engine, everything sounds normal, mabey a little lifter noise for a second or two, but nothing out of the ordinary...... After my engine has a few minutes to get warmed up and lubricated, I head off... For the first 5 minutes +/- I hear a pretty loud tap-tap-tap (lifter?) sound from the engine. If I just kinda' coast down the road until the engine is fully warm, its not bad, but if i have to accelerate 2k rpm's+ the sound gets pretty loud. Now after the temp. guage creeps all the way up to normal, its all clear. I let my engine warm up for about 10 minutes the other day, and i didn't hear much out of the lifters....(did i answer my own question..lol) I had a honda civic that did the same thing for 125k...when it was cold, it made all kinds of racket' until it was fully warmed up...
---Are there other 5.4's out there that are experiencing the same sounds on cold starts, this may be normal for these DOH cam engines...I just wanted to check it out with some of you....Thanks for all the previous feedback...
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1999 F-150 XLT SuperCab 2WD, Gold/Tan, 5.4L
MFG date 5/99
Mobile1/802s
[This message has been edited by ksdoxey (edited 09-29-2000).]
Other than intermitant belt noises, and a occational pop' from my a/c compressor, no major complaints...
---
On COLD mornings when I start my engine, everything sounds normal, mabey a little lifter noise for a second or two, but nothing out of the ordinary...... After my engine has a few minutes to get warmed up and lubricated, I head off... For the first 5 minutes +/- I hear a pretty loud tap-tap-tap (lifter?) sound from the engine. If I just kinda' coast down the road until the engine is fully warm, its not bad, but if i have to accelerate 2k rpm's+ the sound gets pretty loud. Now after the temp. guage creeps all the way up to normal, its all clear. I let my engine warm up for about 10 minutes the other day, and i didn't hear much out of the lifters....(did i answer my own question..lol) I had a honda civic that did the same thing for 125k...when it was cold, it made all kinds of racket' until it was fully warmed up...
---Are there other 5.4's out there that are experiencing the same sounds on cold starts, this may be normal for these DOH cam engines...I just wanted to check it out with some of you....Thanks for all the previous feedback...
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1999 F-150 XLT SuperCab 2WD, Gold/Tan, 5.4L
MFG date 5/99
Mobile1/802s
[This message has been edited by ksdoxey (edited 09-29-2000).]
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From: Gilbert, AZ, USA
KSDOXEY,
I would take it to the dealer and explain in detail (like you did here) and have them look at it. At least you'll have it documented. And MAKE sure they write a full ticket on it and give you a copy. At least then you'll have it on their "letterhead", even if they "lose" it.
I don't know enough about the valvetrain yet (manuals are BO'd from Helm - www.helminc.com ). "Supposed" to be here next week. If the valvetrain does have a hydraulic component in it, it may be a partially collapsed lifter (thinking similar to pushrod motor).
If there are still no useful posts by the time I get the manuals, I'll let you know what I find.
As far as my '97 5.4L, I have nothing like that at 44K miles.
GET THE TRUCK INTO THE DEALER.
Tony
I would take it to the dealer and explain in detail (like you did here) and have them look at it. At least you'll have it documented. And MAKE sure they write a full ticket on it and give you a copy. At least then you'll have it on their "letterhead", even if they "lose" it.
I don't know enough about the valvetrain yet (manuals are BO'd from Helm - www.helminc.com ). "Supposed" to be here next week. If the valvetrain does have a hydraulic component in it, it may be a partially collapsed lifter (thinking similar to pushrod motor).
If there are still no useful posts by the time I get the manuals, I'll let you know what I find.
As far as my '97 5.4L, I have nothing like that at 44K miles.
GET THE TRUCK INTO THE DEALER.
Tony
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Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Phillips Ranch, CA USA
The noises you describe are pretty normal. Always have the dealer check it if you not sure. Especially if it's under warranty. I think you did answer your own question, though. Same thing here on noise except I noticed the 5.4 is slightly louder, because it's slightly bigger. Since switching to a full synthetic oil on my 4.6 I've had to let mine warm up a minute also and then it all goes away once it's up to temp.
I bet that if you complain loud enough and long enough about you 5.4 at the dealer they'll build you a new one. Just a thought. It's easier for them to say yes and swap it than it is cleaning up another PR nightmare.
Not that you even need one at all. Just saying. The only real way to tell if you had the slap would either be. a) debriss in the bottom of the pan or oil filter (piston shavings) OR b) have Ford tear it down and see. It sounds like you don't have a problem to me, just because my 4.6 makes the same general grunts and growls and it isn't a PS candidate.
Between the big 3, it seems like Ford always wins for the most valve train noise. I forgot what my 383M sounded like. I just remember the 350G being very quiet.
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97 XLT SC w/63k mi. 3:55, 4.6L, 3.5" Fabtech coils w/arms & 2" add-a-leafs, snug lid, Tow package, 6CD, Auto, avg. 17.2 MPG w/ Goodyear GA 255/75/16's
future mods:BFG 285/75/16's, Trans-go shift kit,
80-90k mi. mods: 3" spindles, centerline rims with 35's
<creativepen@yahoo.com>
I bet that if you complain loud enough and long enough about you 5.4 at the dealer they'll build you a new one. Just a thought. It's easier for them to say yes and swap it than it is cleaning up another PR nightmare.
Not that you even need one at all. Just saying. The only real way to tell if you had the slap would either be. a) debriss in the bottom of the pan or oil filter (piston shavings) OR b) have Ford tear it down and see. It sounds like you don't have a problem to me, just because my 4.6 makes the same general grunts and growls and it isn't a PS candidate.
Between the big 3, it seems like Ford always wins for the most valve train noise. I forgot what my 383M sounded like. I just remember the 350G being very quiet.
------------------
97 XLT SC w/63k mi. 3:55, 4.6L, 3.5" Fabtech coils w/arms & 2" add-a-leafs, snug lid, Tow package, 6CD, Auto, avg. 17.2 MPG w/ Goodyear GA 255/75/16's
future mods:BFG 285/75/16's, Trans-go shift kit,
80-90k mi. mods: 3" spindles, centerline rims with 35's
<creativepen@yahoo.com>
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From: MS
White Monkey,
Thanks for the feedback. Because i have experienced this with other vehicles i've owned, i figured it was normal...My motor would have to be making alot of racket' in order for me to let my local dealer get his paws under my hood...i dont trust them any more than i can trow them...which isn't far. I stoped by a while back and asked them about the valve noise and PS..."Never heard of it"...just what i expected....
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1999 F-150 XLT SuperCab 2WD, Gold/Tan, 5.4L
MFG date 5/99
Mobile1/802s
Thanks for the feedback. Because i have experienced this with other vehicles i've owned, i figured it was normal...My motor would have to be making alot of racket' in order for me to let my local dealer get his paws under my hood...i dont trust them any more than i can trow them...which isn't far. I stoped by a while back and asked them about the valve noise and PS..."Never heard of it"...just what i expected....
------------------
1999 F-150 XLT SuperCab 2WD, Gold/Tan, 5.4L
MFG date 5/99
Mobile1/802s
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Posts: 632
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From: DOT BOMB CITY!
All the OHC engines I've owned sound a little noisy when cold. I had slap on my original engine. Got 50K outa that one. Now I have 11K on the new engine. Had our first real cool/cold night here in Virginia last night. About 40-45 or so.... When I started the engine (which was hard to start I think becuase I have about 2 gallons in the tank??) the engine did make a valve sound a little for about the first 30 seconds. Not bad, but NOTHING like the slap sound!
The difference between slap and valve is quite clear! The slap sounds more like someone hitting the side of your block with a very small sledge hammer. A very deep metal-to-metal sound. The valves are much higher pitched. Sounds more like the knock from bad gas, out of time, or wrong octane. A poping sort of chatter!
The slap sound comes from underneath the engine, where as the valve sound comes from the top side!
I personally think a little valve chatter will hurt nothing, but apparently some of the experts say your engine should sound the same when you start it as it does when its been running for an hour....
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Rand
98 Ford Expedition 4X4 XLT
5.4, 3.73s, 17" wheels,
Homemade 3" "COLD" Air-Box
mod, SuperChip, Amsoil
everywhere but tranny, Perma-
Cool combo 6 pass trans/oil
cooler (FQR 5.4 @ 50K)
The difference between slap and valve is quite clear! The slap sounds more like someone hitting the side of your block with a very small sledge hammer. A very deep metal-to-metal sound. The valves are much higher pitched. Sounds more like the knock from bad gas, out of time, or wrong octane. A poping sort of chatter!
The slap sound comes from underneath the engine, where as the valve sound comes from the top side!
I personally think a little valve chatter will hurt nothing, but apparently some of the experts say your engine should sound the same when you start it as it does when its been running for an hour....
------------------
Rand
98 Ford Expedition 4X4 XLT
5.4, 3.73s, 17" wheels,
Homemade 3" "COLD" Air-Box
mod, SuperChip, Amsoil
everywhere but tranny, Perma-
Cool combo 6 pass trans/oil
cooler (FQR 5.4 @ 50K)
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From: DOT BOMB CITY!
Oh, BTW: 10 minutes of a loud tap is NOT normal! You've got a problem or one coming! I'd taker in!
Have you tried different fuels? Your running 87 Octane right?
A good de-carboning might help....
Might try an internal engine cleaning product with a synthetic oil.
You ARE using the recommended weight oil RIGHT? 5W30 or 0W30??
Try a 0W30?
Might be masking the problem...Taker in!
[This message has been edited by Rand (edited 09-29-2000).]
Have you tried different fuels? Your running 87 Octane right?
A good de-carboning might help....
Might try an internal engine cleaning product with a synthetic oil.
You ARE using the recommended weight oil RIGHT? 5W30 or 0W30??
Try a 0W30?
Might be masking the problem...Taker in!
[This message has been edited by Rand (edited 09-29-2000).]
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From: Clemson SC US of A
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From: Shoreline, WA
I have the same noises you described in my 6/99 5.4L. I left it at the dealer overnight and they said they heard nothing out of the ordinary. They might have said that no matter what but at least now I have documentation. I have to say it’s a load off my mind to hear others with the exact same problem. Wasn’t sure if I had PS or not. My 98 had it. The noise emitted from my 99 is definitely different. It may be a bit of a rattle-trap on cold mornings but that’s ok. I’ll bet my OHC’s will be in better shape than the OHV’s used in the competitor's motors after 100,000+ miles!
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99XLT 4x4, 5.4L, Ext Cab/Short Box.
K&N Air Filter, Mobil 1 (5W-30), Motorcraft Filter.
Assembled 6/99.
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99XLT 4x4, 5.4L, Ext Cab/Short Box.
K&N Air Filter, Mobil 1 (5W-30), Motorcraft Filter.
Assembled 6/99.
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Posts: 272
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From: Minnesota
Ksdoxey-
My word on this is one from very great expirence...Go to the dealership, and complain of a cold enigne knock, and more than likely you are going to walk away with a new enigne in your truck. I had that done to my truck after the passenger side head gasket was replaced once due to an oil leak, and then it leaked agian, then I heard the knocking really bad....Well guess what, my enigne is leaking agian from the passenger side head agian....Goes into the shop on Monday to either get fixed or to get me a new truck.
**Another thing...my truck has just been a lemon...you name it, I have either had it, had it fixed, or needs to be fixed. I have had the tranny replaced due to the torque converter "blowing", door cracks, roof crack in the gutter, and now door rust..I just want out of this truck...so I can get my F250 or F350 with the V10 or Powerstroke!!!!**
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1999 F-150 4x4 Offroad, SuperCab, Prairie Harvest Gold, 5.4L Triton w/ K&N Air Filter, Lund Interceptor Bug Guard, Lund Headlight Covers, Lund Screenfront Grill Insert, Vent Visors, Smittybilt Outland Sport Bumper Gaurd w/ Hella 500 & 550 Driving lights, Access Roll-up Cover, Bedliner, Ford Reciever Hitch Cover, Taillight Covers, Bridgestone Dueler AT's
Future Mods:
Gibson Cat-Back Exhaust, Nerf bars, 4" Suspension Lift, 3" Body Lift, 35" Tires
Link to Pictures:
zing.com
My word on this is one from very great expirence...Go to the dealership, and complain of a cold enigne knock, and more than likely you are going to walk away with a new enigne in your truck. I had that done to my truck after the passenger side head gasket was replaced once due to an oil leak, and then it leaked agian, then I heard the knocking really bad....Well guess what, my enigne is leaking agian from the passenger side head agian....Goes into the shop on Monday to either get fixed or to get me a new truck.
**Another thing...my truck has just been a lemon...you name it, I have either had it, had it fixed, or needs to be fixed. I have had the tranny replaced due to the torque converter "blowing", door cracks, roof crack in the gutter, and now door rust..I just want out of this truck...so I can get my F250 or F350 with the V10 or Powerstroke!!!!**
------------------
1999 F-150 4x4 Offroad, SuperCab, Prairie Harvest Gold, 5.4L Triton w/ K&N Air Filter, Lund Interceptor Bug Guard, Lund Headlight Covers, Lund Screenfront Grill Insert, Vent Visors, Smittybilt Outland Sport Bumper Gaurd w/ Hella 500 & 550 Driving lights, Access Roll-up Cover, Bedliner, Ford Reciever Hitch Cover, Taillight Covers, Bridgestone Dueler AT's
Future Mods:
Gibson Cat-Back Exhaust, Nerf bars, 4" Suspension Lift, 3" Body Lift, 35" Tires
Link to Pictures:
zing.com
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From: MS
MNFORD99,
I concidered bringing it in, but after reading the post on PS on this site...I just dont think its PS. I really doesn't make any noises(other than an occation belt noise) on cold starts while sitting parked. I only hear this tapping while accelerating and only for the first 5 miles or so and only on cold mornings. With this type of discription i believe i would get the run-around and be wasting my time going to the dealership.
---
I have a 98 ford explorer that has had the check engine light on practically since day 1. I have brought it in to be checked out a total of 7 times and they put it on the computer, reset the computer...send me on my way. During this process they changed 4or5 parts on the engine. The light is still there. The wierd thing is...my explorer runs perfect...it just always has that ******* light gleeming in your face....
---
(does this engine utilize some type of hydraulic cam followers? Mabey im not giving them enough warmup time to fully pressurize??...just a thought?)
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1999 F-150 XLT SuperCab 2WD, Gold/Tan, 5.4L
MFG date 5/99
Mobile1/802s
I concidered bringing it in, but after reading the post on PS on this site...I just dont think its PS. I really doesn't make any noises(other than an occation belt noise) on cold starts while sitting parked. I only hear this tapping while accelerating and only for the first 5 miles or so and only on cold mornings. With this type of discription i believe i would get the run-around and be wasting my time going to the dealership.
---
I have a 98 ford explorer that has had the check engine light on practically since day 1. I have brought it in to be checked out a total of 7 times and they put it on the computer, reset the computer...send me on my way. During this process they changed 4or5 parts on the engine. The light is still there. The wierd thing is...my explorer runs perfect...it just always has that ******* light gleeming in your face....
---
(does this engine utilize some type of hydraulic cam followers? Mabey im not giving them enough warmup time to fully pressurize??...just a thought?)
------------------
1999 F-150 XLT SuperCab 2WD, Gold/Tan, 5.4L
MFG date 5/99
Mobile1/802s
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 272
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From: Minnesota
KSDOXEY-
Well it is up to you, but I just figured I had nothing to loose. Mine did the exact samething that you describe yours as doing...it would make a little noise sitting idling, and then it sounded like something was wrong under acceleration....Turns out that when the engine was replaced by Ford, they dropped the pan, and found that the Lower Crank Bearing was completely shot, and that was partly making the noise...not just the piston slap/knock!!!! Just some words of advice...Don't take any crap from Ford Dealerships...they aren't making your payments, you are!!!
My brother-in-law is starting as a mechanic at the Ford dealer that I bring my truck to this monday....and that is really going to scare me when he will be able to tell me what else might go wrong with my truck..
[This message has been edited by MNFORD99 (edited 09-29-2000).]
Well it is up to you, but I just figured I had nothing to loose. Mine did the exact samething that you describe yours as doing...it would make a little noise sitting idling, and then it sounded like something was wrong under acceleration....Turns out that when the engine was replaced by Ford, they dropped the pan, and found that the Lower Crank Bearing was completely shot, and that was partly making the noise...not just the piston slap/knock!!!! Just some words of advice...Don't take any crap from Ford Dealerships...they aren't making your payments, you are!!!
My brother-in-law is starting as a mechanic at the Ford dealer that I bring my truck to this monday....and that is really going to scare me when he will be able to tell me what else might go wrong with my truck..
[This message has been edited by MNFORD99 (edited 09-29-2000).]
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From: MS
MNFORD99,
You said your truck is going back to the shop monday? Has FORD already replaced your original engine? And this one is giving you problems? Which engine had the shot lower bearing, the one you are currently driving? How many miles before symptoms appeared? Dino or Synth?
Man, i wish you all the luck. Keep me up to date on your engine...drop me your email address, i wouldnt mind asking you a few more questions....
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1999 F-150 XLT SuperCab 2WD, Gold/Tan, 5.4L
MFG date 5/99
Mobile1/802s
[This message has been edited by ksdoxey (edited 09-30-2000).]
You said your truck is going back to the shop monday? Has FORD already replaced your original engine? And this one is giving you problems? Which engine had the shot lower bearing, the one you are currently driving? How many miles before symptoms appeared? Dino or Synth?
Man, i wish you all the luck. Keep me up to date on your engine...drop me your email address, i wouldnt mind asking you a few more questions....
------------------
1999 F-150 XLT SuperCab 2WD, Gold/Tan, 5.4L
MFG date 5/99
Mobile1/802s
[This message has been edited by ksdoxey (edited 09-30-2000).]
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 116
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From: Phillips Ranch, CA USA
ksdoxey,
At 17k mi.'s now is the time to find out whatcha got going on under the hood if anything. A visit to the dealer complaining about a problem is a good insurance policy. If you have it in for the same problem 4 times before basic warranty is up and they can't fix it they have to buy it back. (these laws are differ. in diff states, search lemon laws...)
Still, it sounds like you love this truck as much as most of us here love ours. I hope for your sake it's just the normal clack clack of the cold hydraulic lifters. Ask 10 people, get 10 different answers.
------------------
97 XLT SC w/63k mi. 3:55, 4.6L, 3.5" Fabtech coils w/arms & 2" add-a-leafs, snug lid, Tow package, 6CD, Auto, avg. 17.2 MPG w/ Goodyear GA 255/75/16's
future mods:BFG 285/75/16's, Trans-go shift kit,
80-90k mi. mods: 3" spindles, centerline rims with 35's
<creativepen@yahoo.com>
At 17k mi.'s now is the time to find out whatcha got going on under the hood if anything. A visit to the dealer complaining about a problem is a good insurance policy. If you have it in for the same problem 4 times before basic warranty is up and they can't fix it they have to buy it back. (these laws are differ. in diff states, search lemon laws...)
Still, it sounds like you love this truck as much as most of us here love ours. I hope for your sake it's just the normal clack clack of the cold hydraulic lifters. Ask 10 people, get 10 different answers.
------------------
97 XLT SC w/63k mi. 3:55, 4.6L, 3.5" Fabtech coils w/arms & 2" add-a-leafs, snug lid, Tow package, 6CD, Auto, avg. 17.2 MPG w/ Goodyear GA 255/75/16's
future mods:BFG 285/75/16's, Trans-go shift kit,
80-90k mi. mods: 3" spindles, centerline rims with 35's
<creativepen@yahoo.com>