DEX-COOL
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: correctional facility
Then what, pray tell my little boneheads, will the use of Dex-Cool or switching anit-freezes do? No one has answered that, have they? dustoff shot his mouth off that it wasn't used in the F150--and he was WRONG!! Ford's service recommendation is based ENTIRELY on the assumption that the cooling system will be merely drained and refilled and not flushed. Guess who makes the anti-freeze used by Ford? Any guesses, morons? Try PRESTONE. Dex-Cool has the same boil over protection, the same freeze protection, the same corrosion protection, same pH, same conductivity, and same base chemical as green anti-freeze. There are no special hoses, radiator caps, gaskets, or thermostats for Dex-Cool. EXACTLY what will mixing the two types of anti-freeze destroy? Maybe sven/olga, the "engineer" of dubious qualification can tell me? How 'bout it, olga? Does your little owner's manual tell what the torque pattern on the heads is? It must be a real ***** hot piece of "literature" if it has all of the really intricate and indepth maintenence procedures for an entire vehicle. WOW! I am SOOOOO humbled and IMPRESSED!!!! Please educate me, oh wise ones.
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Dec 1997
Posts: 9,417
Likes: 11
From: Windsor,Ontario,Canada
Kilroy,
"Again, morons, the Ford service manual has NO PROCEDURE for flushing a cooling system, GET IT?" I disagree. Ford F-150 Shop Manual Section < 303-03-43 Engine Cooling, General Procedures, Flush-Engine and Radiator > details the NO PROCEDURE.
Kindest regards
Jean Marc Chartier
------------------
00 F-150 XLT SC Flairside 4x4 4.6 w/5spd 3.55LSD
Warn XD9000i, skid plates, Draw tite class III,
Rancho RSX Reflex shocks,
Borla Cat Back
Modified Air Cleaner Outlet Tube
and air box, Shortened MAF sensor tower,
K&N air filter,
Superchips
"Again, morons, the Ford service manual has NO PROCEDURE for flushing a cooling system, GET IT?" I disagree. Ford F-150 Shop Manual Section < 303-03-43 Engine Cooling, General Procedures, Flush-Engine and Radiator > details the NO PROCEDURE.
Kindest regards
Jean Marc Chartier
------------------
00 F-150 XLT SC Flairside 4x4 4.6 w/5spd 3.55LSD
Warn XD9000i, skid plates, Draw tite class III,
Rancho RSX Reflex shocks,
Borla Cat Back
Modified Air Cleaner Outlet Tube
and air box, Shortened MAF sensor tower,
K&N air filter,
Superchips
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
From: Minnesota
I am just reading this post for the first time, and really beginning to wonder what the heck is going on....I have to say that if you KIDS are going to argue, do it else where...not here.
I just have one question for anyone that wants to answer it....Why is it now that Chevy, who put the extended life Anti-freeze in their trucks, is now advising the owners to flush out the Anti-freeze at 30,000 miles (I think that is what I read), and add new? It is because it is eating the radiator, and the hoses....
Sounds pretty cut and dry to me, why add something that is going to cause one manufacturer problems, when the manuals clearly state not to use anything other than what the vehicle came with.....even Ford adds "green/yellow" anti-freeze when the system is flushed.....I know, had the engine rebuilt, and also replaced, and still has green anti-freeze in the cooling system!!!! Just my two cents worth....even my brother-in-law that is a mechanic said not to use anything other than what was originally in the vehicle!!!!!! He has flushed his chevy extended life anti-freeze now, and is wondering what is going to happen to his engine, cooling system, and what ever else that came in contact with...
I just have one question for anyone that wants to answer it....Why is it now that Chevy, who put the extended life Anti-freeze in their trucks, is now advising the owners to flush out the Anti-freeze at 30,000 miles (I think that is what I read), and add new? It is because it is eating the radiator, and the hoses....
Sounds pretty cut and dry to me, why add something that is going to cause one manufacturer problems, when the manuals clearly state not to use anything other than what the vehicle came with.....even Ford adds "green/yellow" anti-freeze when the system is flushed.....I know, had the engine rebuilt, and also replaced, and still has green anti-freeze in the cooling system!!!! Just my two cents worth....even my brother-in-law that is a mechanic said not to use anything other than what was originally in the vehicle!!!!!! He has flushed his chevy extended life anti-freeze now, and is wondering what is going to happen to his engine, cooling system, and what ever else that came in contact with...
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
From: DOT BOMB CITY!
CONTRADICTION????
KILROY posted some info including the following quote -
"Ford's service recommendation is based on the assumption that most will simply drain and refill and not flush out their system."
OTHER QUOTES FROM OTHER PEOPLE:
"Use only FORD G05 Engine Coolant (yellow in color) or a premium coolant that meets FORD specification WSS-M97B51-A1"
"DO NOT USE Ford extended Life Coolant F6AZ-19544-AA (Orange in color)"
"DO NOT USE a DEX COOL® engine coolant or an equivalent engine coolant that meets Ford specification WSS-M97B44-D."
"My wifes car (2000 model) uses DEX-COOL® (silicate free) extended life
coolant..and the owners manual states:
If coolant other than DEX-COOL® is added to the system, premature engine, heater core or radiator corrosion may result. Damage caused by the use of coolant other than DEX-COOL® is NOT covered by your new vehicle warranty."
------------------------------
Q1: If its not damaging to your vehicle to replace the coolant with other than what it recommends, then WHY doesn't Ford say ITS NOT RECOMMENDED??? THis is usualy the type of language used by car manufacturers. Moreover, Ford specifically states NOT to do what KILROY says its ok to do!
KILROY: So your saying its ok to switch from one to the other? Even though Ford uses specific language to the contrary...Based on what?
Your saying Ford is being so nice to tell us this because they dont want us spending too much money on the extended life products and adding them to the cheap stuff because you end up with expensive short term coolant? How nice of them!
Or could it be that Ford thinks people might mix the two and think they are protected for 100K or 150K when in fact they have diluted the extended coolant to a 30K coolant???
------------------------------------------
Its usually a good idea to adhere to the recommendations by the manufacturer. In other words, stick to the owners manual.
Does the Ford shop manual or ANY other manual say SPECIFICALLY that its ok to go from one to the other?
Maybe the Engineers at Ford know something more than KILROY? Maybe not?
Maybe it takes time for the Engineers to see the long term effects of the new coolant?
Maybe the Engineers at Ford are testing engines to see if its ok to switch back and forth over the life of a vehicle?
There just might be more to this than meets the eye?
If in fact Ford does NOT use special seals or any other special materials for the use of the "orange" stuff AND if in fact the chemical compositions of the "orange" stuff will not harm the run-o-the-mill cooling systems... Then whats all the hype about?
[This message has been edited by Rand (edited 08-08-2000).]
KILROY posted some info including the following quote -
"Ford's service recommendation is based on the assumption that most will simply drain and refill and not flush out their system."
OTHER QUOTES FROM OTHER PEOPLE:
"Use only FORD G05 Engine Coolant (yellow in color) or a premium coolant that meets FORD specification WSS-M97B51-A1"
"DO NOT USE Ford extended Life Coolant F6AZ-19544-AA (Orange in color)"
"DO NOT USE a DEX COOL® engine coolant or an equivalent engine coolant that meets Ford specification WSS-M97B44-D."
"My wifes car (2000 model) uses DEX-COOL® (silicate free) extended life
coolant..and the owners manual states:
If coolant other than DEX-COOL® is added to the system, premature engine, heater core or radiator corrosion may result. Damage caused by the use of coolant other than DEX-COOL® is NOT covered by your new vehicle warranty."
------------------------------
Q1: If its not damaging to your vehicle to replace the coolant with other than what it recommends, then WHY doesn't Ford say ITS NOT RECOMMENDED??? THis is usualy the type of language used by car manufacturers. Moreover, Ford specifically states NOT to do what KILROY says its ok to do!
KILROY: So your saying its ok to switch from one to the other? Even though Ford uses specific language to the contrary...Based on what?
Your saying Ford is being so nice to tell us this because they dont want us spending too much money on the extended life products and adding them to the cheap stuff because you end up with expensive short term coolant? How nice of them!
Or could it be that Ford thinks people might mix the two and think they are protected for 100K or 150K when in fact they have diluted the extended coolant to a 30K coolant???
------------------------------------------
Its usually a good idea to adhere to the recommendations by the manufacturer. In other words, stick to the owners manual.
Does the Ford shop manual or ANY other manual say SPECIFICALLY that its ok to go from one to the other?
Maybe the Engineers at Ford know something more than KILROY? Maybe not?
Maybe it takes time for the Engineers to see the long term effects of the new coolant?
Maybe the Engineers at Ford are testing engines to see if its ok to switch back and forth over the life of a vehicle?
There just might be more to this than meets the eye?
If in fact Ford does NOT use special seals or any other special materials for the use of the "orange" stuff AND if in fact the chemical compositions of the "orange" stuff will not harm the run-o-the-mill cooling systems... Then whats all the hype about?
[This message has been edited by Rand (edited 08-08-2000).]
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
From: DOT BOMB CITY!
I have seen plenty of printed material quoted from Ford's owners manuals that tell us NOT to switch...
I have seen NOTHING from Ford saying its ok to switch. Shop or owners manuals....
HOWEVER, KILROY tells us its ok...It must be ok...
We're all "boneheads" and "morons" lets follow KILROY!!! Thats the LOGIC only "boneheads" and "morons" follow....
I like KILROY'S logic!
I could be persuaded to agree with KILROY's initial premis on this subject. I just don't agree with his THICK, OBTUSE, and ILLOGICAL way of convincing people!
BTW: Jumping to conclusions is exactly what Engineers try to avoid. We learn this VERY early on! If Ford's Engineers have a recommendation, it could be because they have not concluded for themselves.
KILROY, you should call Ford immediately with your findings. I think they would appreciate all the money you could save them with R&D!!
Please retort with something other than your usual rhetoric (boneheads and morons)! Its so unlike a mastermind! Since you are a mastermind you should act like one!
[This message has been edited by Rand (edited 08-08-2000).]
I have seen NOTHING from Ford saying its ok to switch. Shop or owners manuals....
HOWEVER, KILROY tells us its ok...It must be ok...
We're all "boneheads" and "morons" lets follow KILROY!!! Thats the LOGIC only "boneheads" and "morons" follow....
I like KILROY'S logic!
I could be persuaded to agree with KILROY's initial premis on this subject. I just don't agree with his THICK, OBTUSE, and ILLOGICAL way of convincing people!
BTW: Jumping to conclusions is exactly what Engineers try to avoid. We learn this VERY early on! If Ford's Engineers have a recommendation, it could be because they have not concluded for themselves.
KILROY, you should call Ford immediately with your findings. I think they would appreciate all the money you could save them with R&D!!
Please retort with something other than your usual rhetoric (boneheads and morons)! Its so unlike a mastermind! Since you are a mastermind you should act like one!
[This message has been edited by Rand (edited 08-08-2000).]
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
From: DOT BOMB CITY!
KILROY QUOTE:
"Ford's service recommendation is based ENTIRELY on the assumption that the cooling system will
be merely drained and refilled and not flushed."
How do you know what Ford service manual is based on?
Does it state those words at the beginning of the area that describes coolant replacement, flushing, etc...???
[This message has been edited by Rand (edited 08-08-2000).]
"Ford's service recommendation is based ENTIRELY on the assumption that the cooling system will
be merely drained and refilled and not flushed."
How do you know what Ford service manual is based on?
Does it state those words at the beginning of the area that describes coolant replacement, flushing, etc...???
[This message has been edited by Rand (edited 08-08-2000).]
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
From: DOT BOMB CITY!
KILROY QUOTE:
"I don't know what kind of an engineer you are Sven, but I'm assuming you're the kind who designed the fuel lines on the old space shuttles, or the kind who authorized the
use of shoddy steel in the Titanic, or maybe even the kind who designed the escape hatch in the Apollo 7. "
Obviously KILROY has never heard of people making mistakes and mis-calculations. People make mistakes. Its human nature.
KILROY, since you obviously make yourself appear very wise. Describe for us the life cycle of an Engineering process! How about describing one or two Engineering processes.
How about an easy one, prototyping?
What is your background again? What is your level of education? How old are you?
Dazzle us with your background and profound knowledge professor!
"I don't know what kind of an engineer you are Sven, but I'm assuming you're the kind who designed the fuel lines on the old space shuttles, or the kind who authorized the
use of shoddy steel in the Titanic, or maybe even the kind who designed the escape hatch in the Apollo 7. "
Obviously KILROY has never heard of people making mistakes and mis-calculations. People make mistakes. Its human nature.
KILROY, since you obviously make yourself appear very wise. Describe for us the life cycle of an Engineering process! How about describing one or two Engineering processes.
How about an easy one, prototyping?
What is your background again? What is your level of education? How old are you?
Dazzle us with your background and profound knowledge professor!
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
From: Minnesota
Rand-
Very good points, I want to see what Kilroy has to say about those questions....should be very interested, and might have to get out the dictionary inorder to read it, because he is such a "Mastermind" or maybe a master of something else.....
Looks like there is also a thing called common sense among the rest of my fellow F150 owners not to follow one person, but rather follow the masses or general consensus.
So who is really the "Bonehead", "Moron", or what ever else Kilroy has called us? Looks to me like he made the mistake of not only starting something when it is one agianst roughly 6,000 board members....hum can we all say the odds are stacked agianst him?
Very good points, I want to see what Kilroy has to say about those questions....should be very interested, and might have to get out the dictionary inorder to read it, because he is such a "Mastermind" or maybe a master of something else.....
Looks like there is also a thing called common sense among the rest of my fellow F150 owners not to follow one person, but rather follow the masses or general consensus.
So who is really the "Bonehead", "Moron", or what ever else Kilroy has called us? Looks to me like he made the mistake of not only starting something when it is one agianst roughly 6,000 board members....hum can we all say the odds are stacked agianst him?
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
From: DOT BOMB CITY!
Thanks. Kilroy has a bad habit of calling people names. He has attacked me before. I've made it a point to stand up to him!
He's not as sharp as he thinks. He can contribute some interesting info but usually ends up making a poor arguement and calling people "morons","boneheads","nuckleheads", and whatever other stones he can throw due to his lack of being able to persuade, or should I say control?
He's not as sharp as he thinks. He can contribute some interesting info but usually ends up making a poor arguement and calling people "morons","boneheads","nuckleheads", and whatever other stones he can throw due to his lack of being able to persuade, or should I say control?
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
From: DOT BOMB CITY!
Just a little statistical information for your viewing pleasure:
------------------------
KILROY QUOTES IN ORDER:
WHERE THE *******
Read Prestone's recommendation, bonehead
Where THE ******* does
Read Prestone's statements, knucklehead.
manuals are written for non-mechanical type people in Neanderthal
These idiots who've
Uh, dumbass
asinine, argumentative morons
you and that other bonehead
Let me give you morons another
Again, morons
Tell me, morons, EXACTLY
pray tell my little boneheads
Any guesses, morons?
How 'bout it, olga?
a real ***** hot piece
---------------------------
Hey KILROY, GET IT?
Out of the 12 postings KILROY used his profound rhetoric in 9. Thats a wopping 75%...
See a pattern?
Kilroy, I think you should stop spending so much time watching, "UH", Beavis and Bonehead. Its affecting your rhetoric!
------------------------
KILROY QUOTES IN ORDER:
WHERE THE *******
Read Prestone's recommendation, bonehead
Where THE ******* does
Read Prestone's statements, knucklehead.
manuals are written for non-mechanical type people in Neanderthal
These idiots who've
Uh, dumbass
asinine, argumentative morons
you and that other bonehead
Let me give you morons another
Again, morons
Tell me, morons, EXACTLY
pray tell my little boneheads
Any guesses, morons?
How 'bout it, olga?
a real ***** hot piece
---------------------------
Hey KILROY, GET IT?
Out of the 12 postings KILROY used his profound rhetoric in 9. Thats a wopping 75%...
See a pattern?
Kilroy, I think you should stop spending so much time watching, "UH", Beavis and Bonehead. Its affecting your rhetoric!
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
From: Oregon, IL
Sorry, about the last one. I just had to get it out of my system.
Kilroy, I'm a mechanical engineer, not a chemical engineer. I have no idea what the chemical compostions of the different types of antifreezes are. Ford pays ChemEs big bucks to know that stuff.
I very highly doubt Ford assumes much about anything when it comes to engine design. They know there are people like you and companies that want to sell expensive antifreeze that are going to want to use extended life coolant in their trucks. This is why they specifically state NOT to use it. For the general public, it's enough to know that Ford says not to use extended life coolant.
As for the owners manual. It covers general maintenance, operation of controls, and fluid specifications and capacities. If you consider torquing head bolts general maintenance, I'd hate to see the condition of your vehicles. I suppose if it were a top fuel dragster, then I'd consider head bolt torque, among many other things, general maintenance, but not a pickup truck.
Kilroy, I'm a mechanical engineer, not a chemical engineer. I have no idea what the chemical compostions of the different types of antifreezes are. Ford pays ChemEs big bucks to know that stuff.
I very highly doubt Ford assumes much about anything when it comes to engine design. They know there are people like you and companies that want to sell expensive antifreeze that are going to want to use extended life coolant in their trucks. This is why they specifically state NOT to use it. For the general public, it's enough to know that Ford says not to use extended life coolant.
As for the owners manual. It covers general maintenance, operation of controls, and fluid specifications and capacities. If you consider torquing head bolts general maintenance, I'd hate to see the condition of your vehicles. I suppose if it were a top fuel dragster, then I'd consider head bolt torque, among many other things, general maintenance, but not a pickup truck.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
From: Buena Vista CO USA
By the way KILROY, there was nothing wrong with the design of the "fuel system" on the shuttle. If you were referring to the Challenger accident it was not the "fuel system" that caused it, as everyone in the free world knows except maybe you. GET IT!!
