My mobil1 bottle says it's 100% sythentic, exclusive of carrier oil. What exactly is "carrier oil" and doesn't that mean my oil is NOT 100% synthetic? Thanks, m.a.t.

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1999 XLT SC, bright red, 4.2l, 5 speed, MAAP stainless nerfs, Prime Designs bug deflector, Astro Euro-Lid II, Mobil 1.

 

Yes, that's what it means.
Kevin

 

OIL MAN,
PLEASE CLARIFY...
HOW MUCH CARRIER OIL????

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Black 1997 F-150 Supercab Flairside. 4.6L with Jocobs DIS, K&N Generation II, Cat back Exhaust (my own, nice rumble). 17" Off Road wheel pkg. Lots of body mods. 4 yrs old and still turns heads...

 

The additives are diluted in a mineral oil and then the whole thing is blended together.

 

Y2K,
That's close enough I'll leav it at that.
Kevin

 

Yes I knew that it wouldn't get the cigar -- but was close enough for demonstrative purposes. If it was that easy, I'd be selling Jimmy-G's Slipp-Oil at K-Mart -- right next to Marvel Mystery Oil.

Tell me, what are your thoughts about Rislone (the SJ additive)?

Or for that matter -- any type of 'rejuvination' of the spent additives in otherwise long-lived oils (like Mobil 1)?

 

Oil additives are cooked in a specific order and should not be added to an oil later. Any additive that is added to an oil at a later time could result in an unbalanced additive package. For instance, some oils use a lot of Magnesium as a detergent/dispersant and very little calcium. This would be the type of oil that is made for long oil drains. If you start using an additive that has mostly or add calcium it could react with the other additives and have an adverse reaction. For example if you take a base oil and add an anti-wear additive have it tested and see that it works well. Then take that same type of base oil and add an anti-foaming additive and have it tested and it works well. Then take that same base oil and add the anti-wear and anti-foam additives and neither one works well. That's why they call it an additive package, so that all the additives work well together and don't fight each other.

By using an oil like LE or Amsoil, you will be buying the type of additive package that was made for longer oil drains and should not have to add anything to it.

Sincerely, Kevin

 

Oh, that jogged my memory. When I was doing lube sampling while developing an extended lube program with what then the Emery Oil guys, I remember all of the issues with mixing gear oils with different additive packages together. I'll just have to go into my archives for some of those caviats. While I understand your technical and general issue -- isn't it true that oils classed as SJ MUST be able to live together (SAE guideline or ASTM guideline, or whomeverthehell is the reigning body nowadays)?

The reason that I bring this up is this theory:

Mobil 1 is very 'pure' (read: base stock very stable) -- and does not have much in the way of additives which, as additives go, would add significant life (defined as resistance to acid, antifoam, etc) -- since the oil, by itself, is stable enough to pass the tests which allow it the SJ or SH rating.

Further hypothesis: That adding the SJ/SH additive package (such as Rislone) would not hamper the otherwise marvy properties -- but would indeed assist with additional detergents etc..

I have a personal theory -- and have gone on record here in the F-150 message board in a couple of places -- which is that the infamous "piston slap" that so many people truly believe they hear is really collapsed valve adjusters -- (further theory: due to leak-down of the lifter - exacerbated by the use of 5W oil) or sticky adjusters.

If sticky lifters, then an added detergent would seem useful.

Think about that overnight and see if you can make a case in support of those theories.

 

Oil Man, I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to educate us a little about your field. It's much appreciated. A lot of great info on this post and others. [Brown noser Eh?]

 

Y2K 7700 4x4,

I wonder then if that theory of needing extra detergents would help on the Piston Slap,

Maybe someone would be willing to try Delvac1 Diesel oil they make it in 5w-40 which is still 5w for the ford start-up protection, you might lose a little on the mpg side, but it might be worth a try,

Also the Delvac1 is SJ rated here is the specs: http://www.mobil1.com/mobil_lubes/on...ac1/index.html

Another contender for this "extra" detergent would be Amsoil's Heavy duty Diesel Oil 5w30
It is also SJ Rated. http://www.amsoil.com/products/hdd.html

Does any of this make sense?

You above post got me to thinking about this and it just might be worth a try.


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Lube-Direct


New Lubrication Forums

 

Y2K... Others,

The basics of the idea here are good ones, however there are some organic chemistry thoughts that should be brought up. Please bear in mind that I'm in no way an organic chemist, just what I've picked up here and there.

Lets say you have an oil load that has been doing its job of keeping the engine clean and as a result has had its original TBN of 10 (a measurement of mg of Potassium Hydroxide) reduced to a TBN of 6.2. Now if you change your filter, are running extended drains and need only to add backup oil. For the sake of this example, lets say you need to add 1 qt of fresh 10 TBN oil. The overall average of your TBN does not increase in a direct proportion to the additive you've added (like on a 1 to 5 ratio for a 5 qt sump). The TBN will most likely be 7.0 as when your additives get depleted they begin to function on a less capable level and any increase in that additive has to overcome the lackings of the original additive package to become effective.

That's why it has always been better to start with a better oil and work from there. I would also agree with Oil Man, in that you don't want to start mixing oils with different basestocks/additive packages, as you just don't know what you will get.

Its kinda like mixing up pie ingredients, mix up an apple pie made from Washington Red apples and an apple pie made from Golden Delicious will get you a pie that tastes like neither.

This ones a bit confusing, I hope that you can all bear with me. I thought this point important enough to expound upon.

Randy

 

Y2K,
This one is a hard one to explain, but here goes.
Not all oils use the same additive for SJ detergents. Mag,Cal,Barium are all used and sometimes in the same formula, BUT when used with other additives in concentrations that will work together for the better of all the additive package. Not all oils are just SJ they might be CG-4 or CH-4 which adds another additive chemistry to meet that API spec also. By adding just an SJ oil to an oil that is an SJ, CG-4 you would be making the balance of additives out of the realm of working together.

Example;
The pie thing, Lets say you make a pie with apples, and after you eat 1/3 of the pie and it sits for 2 days (not in my house) you then think it needs 2 more eggs and you stur in the eggs and cook it again. Do you get a better pie??? I wouldn't eat it and I would not add anything to my oil that was not the same formula.

Thad, Thank you, and your welcome. I'll keep on trying to help.

Sincerely, Kevin

[This message has been edited by Oil Man (edited 08-01-2000).]

 

Thanks, Randy and Kevin.

MSparks: I have tried in vane over several threads to get any evidence that piston slap exists -- yes, I've read all (well, a reasonable amount) of the very good histories and summaries -- and this one is the proverbial 'BigFoot' of F-150-land.

While I am ready to accept that Ford has/is/may/did/will replace engines with that symptom -- NOBODY (please, someone prove me substantially wrong) has peeked into one with anything better than perhaps a scope. No measurements. No testimonials. No reports from ONE mechanic/technician who has been commissioned by Ford to fix/repair/replace any piston -- not one.

I have worked on engines in an earlier life. Aside from my 30-year-old Briggs&Statton, I have heard fewer slappy engines than I have fingers on my left hand (am a Guitar player, so I think there are four + one thumb).

The audio postings of alleged slappy engines at least INCLUDE noisy valve-train audio in them (only three come to mind -- two on this board, and one link to another private web).

The fact (?) that the pistons for the Lightning and Vanilla trucks are Substantially different further causes me to scratch my head. What are the chances of those very very different composition and manufacturing pistons being of the same size/growth/shrinkage characteristics??

Mind-boggling.

Sure, the common thing here would be piston bore. But geez -- a monkey with an ID mic can tell if a bore is too big or not -- and since the symptoms occur early on -- it suggests that the bores would need to be huge from the get-go.

What does make a lot of sense to me is that the valve train has a 'feature'. Ford has said that this feature will run for ever and ever. So will ticky-tickers.

Couple these with the fact that we're now using 5W oil -- and that means a thin base-stock (chime in here OilMan and MSparks and LE) -- but thin oil will squish out from hydraulic adjusters easier that thick oil will. If these things have any worthwile springing in the valving --then couple those two together and my theory is starting to cement in my mind.

I wish someone with a 'slappy' engine would run some 15W40 in it for a week.

If it is truly a slapper -- 90W oil won't affect the slap any more than ECO of years past would.

I'm sitting here with Shania blasting thru quad speakers and a nice footrest shaking my feet -- and the TV in a little 2" block in the corner of my screen.

This board is my evening entertainment -- and I enjoy the mental gymnastics afforded by several of you.

And look forward to the next thread.

CU tomorrow!



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Y2K™ Jim Gorka

Toreador Red, Keyless XLT SC SB 5.4L E4x4 4wDisc/ABS, 3.73LS, Skid, HD 7700# Towing, LT-245's on Chrome, Tube-Steps, Captain's, 6CD, Tonneau, named: "Nick"

 

Y2K,
I've seen pistons that you could almost put a quater down beside and did not hear piston slap. I believe that the problem comes from the thinner oil plus the low pressure oil pumps. I have heard newer engines that if idle for a while start to get a tapping noise or could be like a slap noise. I believe it to be the upper end not getting enough oil, but I can't prove it it's just my theory or educated guess. Those same engines will not have the noise is just given a little rpm, which brings the psi up and puts oil where it should be and in the right amount. They do this for increased fuel mileage gained from less fluid friction.

Kevin

 

This switch to 5w-30 all over the country may be causing some issues, however I think that there may be some opportunities to rhuemanate here about the causes.

1) If the move to a lower weight oil was prompted because of lubrication/movement of oil problems (and it was, from what I've seen) than maybe the new grade of oil is a bit too light and the pump has a problem keeping the pressure up at lower rpms. Thus when you go to a higher rpm, the pump has more pressure to give and the noise goes away.

2) We are, once again, dealing with the garbage that the oil industry, by and large, forces us to deal with. Oil has some qualities that allow it to 'cling' to engine parts and to reduce drain-back of the oil from the higher parts of the engine. Of course, to enhance this ability costs money and our friends using the Group I/II basestock (LE excluded) aren't going to do that. So the uneducated user puts X brand in his truck in compliance with Ford's wishes and all of a sudden get this noise from his engine after start up. This could be the upper portions of the engine the require oil to run properly complaining about the lack of oil as the oil has all drained back into the pan.

As Y2K 7700 4X4 has pointed out, we have no real evidence that this is a wide-spread problem from a purely mechanical point of view and as such maybe we should get into some other reasons why this is happening.

Randy