Boss96Hog that is such a load of sh*t cars and trucks with the same cid have the same stroke. gas truck engines have the longest strokes of all , the 5.4 and 6.8 are the longest stroke of all gas engines. the 300 six is the longest 6 stroke in any 6 and i cant imagine why ford used this for several decades. why did ford rush to modify the 351C into the lame 400 truck engine. why did ford use the long stroke 460 for so many years instead of the 429. Smaller head ports, valves , and cam designs especially is what determines hp vs torque in same displacement engines. i hope you dont give advice for a living or worse yet build engines.

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2KF150/5.4/LS/Class 3/Blue

 

quote from enok You are mistaken, the 351 cleveland is a small block with a big block attitude. The 400 Modified is a stroked 351 MODIFIED, which is a big block. The 351C never was and never will be a 400.

Obviously if you change the stroke you will get a different cid...Also a engine with a different bore will produce a different cid.

You don't understand why Ford used the 300 for 31 years? Probably because it had more power than any other straight six, and is a better engine than todays v-6's.

[This message has been edited by Pastmaster (edited 07-04-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Pastmaster (edited 07-04-2000).]

 

pastmaster ya its obvious that if you change stroke or bore you change cid...duh. 'obviously you are mistaken', if you can read you will see that bosshog says that a 351W in a car and 1 in a truck perform and rev different due to the stroke...THEY HAVE THE SAME STROKE AND BORE AND CID. he also says trucks dont rev up as much as cars because of their STROKE. he also seems to think long stroke in trucks is better for low end torque. cars and trucks with the same stroke, bore, and cid are generally tuned for Hp or torque by port & valve size, and especially by cam profile. high torque generally having the lowest of all duration and semi-low lift. they certainly dont change the stroke. 'obviously' you dont know much about 351C & 400M either. both are from the same family, 400 is a modified version based on the same common small block with taller deck height and larger journals and gee wiz a longer stroke. v-8 car and truck engines can be modified to reach high rpms, high hp, or high torque the general problem is not the stroke.

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2KF150/5.4/LS/Class 3/Blue

 

I know this is a truck forum but:

In the mustang/Z28 battle, market share is EVERYTHING. Market share determines unit sales, which help to determine profits, which help to add to overall net income, which will evetually increase stock price, which makes shareholders happy.

Don't kid yourself and think that Ford's only motive is to produce the best sports car. Their goal is to produce the sports car that best satisfies market demand. That is determined from market share . . . which they pretty much own in that segment of the market. You don't mess with market share once established. It's hard enough to gain, it's even harder to re-establish once it is lost. Any "tinkering" is done with special projects like the Cobra R. Besides, the R&D/production costs associated with revamping the Mustang line to shave off another 1/2 second in the 0-60 would be outragously expensive and probably not justified given the current succes of the model.

 

Powerlifter405:

Better do somemore homework. Lesson for tonight is:
http://www.wardsauto.com/be2000/default.htm

Not only did the 5.4L Triton capture "Top 10 Engine" honors in 1997, but also in 1998, 1999, and you didn't guess it, 2000! I am sick and tired of hearing people knock the 5.4L.

Maybe your problem could be solved by trading your Ford for a General Maintenance Concern. I traded my 2000 GMC for the 2000 Ford F150, 5.4L due to all of the quality control problems I experienced: clunking driveline, rough idle, highway speed vibration, torque shudder, slipping transmission, and interior trim rattles to name a few.

I'm not saying my Ford is perfect (leans to the left and torque shudder), but at least it isn't in the shop every week.

Due to the fact that I had the GMC, I am speaking from unfortunate experience. You have the best American Made truck hands down.

Jeff

 

never impressed w/ the 5.4 unfortunately.

 

OE812:

I fully agree with ya. I bought a 99 Silverado LS SC 4X4 with the 5.3l and 3:73.
Great pulling power and I liked the design, but couldn't keep it out of the shop due to the quality build problems. I had all the problems you mention, plus, intermediate steering shaft replaced twice (was going out a third time before I traded), and also engine ping that was never rectified (was normal to all the GM geniuses.

I think I like my 2000 F150 more and more every day. It even "feels" more quality built. My Dad was a GM man all his life. Still has a 78 and an 84 4X4 with all original powertrains. Great trucks, but based on the new trucks, they will be the last GM trucks he ever owns too. They just can't match the Ford quality.

His wife now owns a 99 F250 with the V10. Loves it too.

 

It was nice.

 

Yes I know head porting, valve lift and duration, exhaust and intake all determine how an engine will perform. I never claimed to be an engine expert or builder. That was a lot to write in this stupid little "reply" box and hard to keep track of what you are saying when you don't go back and read what you wrote. My goal in writing that was to just get a point across. If you want to go fast, buy a vehicle that was designed for it. If you want a vehicle designed for reliability, the ablity to tow and 4 wheel and whatever the hell else you want to do, buy a truck. Don't expect the truck to perform like top fuel dragster!!!!!

Also consider your alternatives, like buying a Dodge or Chevy. That alone should scare you enough to be happy with your Ford!!!

LOL WoooooooHooooooo!! I didn't know I could edit my posts....just found that little sucker.

[This message has been edited by Boss96Hog (edited 07-05-2000).]

 

Powerlifter:

There is no doubt in my mind that PSD will make you smile so much you get cramps in your face. Also, these motors are so held back from the factory that by getting the computer mod you gain approx 65 HP and 120lbs of torque. That would make a grand total of 625lbs of torque in a 7000# truck. If you ask me, I think they need to be sending these new diesels through with roll cages and 5 point seat belts!!! Best of all, the MPG is awesome. I a have friend that is getting about 16 mpg on this motor pulling a 12,000# trailer that never get's disconnected from the back of the truck. I wish I could have afforded to get one when I ordered my 2001 F150.

The only bad thing I've heard about them is the tranny. At 40,000 miles, my friend has been through 2 trannys. What he was told by the dealer is that since Ford stopped using Aspestos(spelling) in the friction disks of the clutch packs, the new material just can't take the heat from the strain of constantly towing a heavy load. The new material breaks down and causes the tranny to slip. The dealer put a GIANT tranny oil cooler on his truck and that seems to be helping, but he tells me he can fry the tranny anytime he feels like it. His truck is a '99 and maybe the new ones will be different. So if you don't pull a Bobcat around 24/7, the tranny should be fine. This is about the auto trans ONLY, I don't know about the manual trans that's availabe with the PSD.

Now since I got slammed on my last post, I'm gonna say this. I don't claim to be an expert on the PSD. I am just telling you and everyone here what I was told by an owner of a '99 PSD Auto Trans F350 4x2 SC LB.

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Boss™

Just Ordered 2001 F-150 Lariat Wht/Slvr, 4x4, SC, SB, SS, 99L 5.4L, 44E tran, 7700# payload, Class III towing, 3.73LS, Skids, Capts, 4W disc ABS, shift-on-fly, keyless

 

Power--I've been told that the 4.6L weighs about 200lbs more than the 5.0 and costs more to build...

I don't know if this is true, maybe its inflation?
quote from enok: I will reply even though your no longer with us...Yes, the modified is built off of the cleveland, but from there they are different. If they were not different, they would have produced the same result. and won't have been classified as different motors with different outputs Funny, they did have the same problems.

The 6.6l 400M (big block) had a 4" bore and 4" stroke measureing 402.12...It also had a 8.0 compression ratio, the 5.8l 351M had a 4" bore and a 3.5" stroke measuring 351.86. You are right, but the 400 was only in a Modified (big block) form, not a cleveland

The 400m produced 172hp and 298ft/lbs where the 351m produced 163hp and 277ft/lbs...The cleveland produced way more than both.

[This message has been edited by Pastmaster (edited 07-05-2000).]

 

Powerlifter:

I tend to agree with you. I know that GM makes better sports cars. My point (which I think you share) is that Ford has no incentive to change since the stang's are selling so well. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

Besides if I was going to buy a new sports car I could get (Canadian Dollars):

1) Mustang approx 32,000
2) Z28/Firebird approx 35,000
3) Honda Prelude approx 30,000
4) 4 year old used Vette approx 30,000

I think I'd have to go with option number 4 myself . . . although I think I'd wait a few years so I could get the new style. That's my dream car. Mind you, in PG I could only really drive it for 5 months. But hey, that's what a toy is for isn't it?

 

The 351C, 351M, and 400M are not referred to in any Ford literature as anything but small blocks. That Enok is a real jerk but he seems to know his stuff. I did not see that he said that the C and M engines were identical. They are from the same "family" and they share many parts. Ex: complete gasket kit, oil pan, valve covers, oil pump, water pump, cam, 2/3 of the valve train, timing chain, etc. The major differences are due to the longer stroke, taller block, and crank journal size. These 3 engines also share a unique coolant passage system.


Powerlifter405- The power to weight ratio on F-150s prevent them from being extremely fast. Furtunately the aftermarket has come a long way recently. Sounds like you have an excellent truck.

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2000 F150 XLT 5.4 7700 Payload
K&N FIPK Superchip Dynomax Cat Back

 

porter, go away. For those curious, here is the information "porter" used to register...

Remote Host: tl1-19-183.tca.net
IP Address: 208.180.19.183

Same as enok.

Steve

 

Past:
From what I had read in an old 'Mustang and Fast Fords', the 4.6 is lighter than the 5.0.
Iron VS. Aluminum.
At the time of print something to the effect of, with the current spring rates (93) it rose the front end into the air and the car, and I recall the picture pretty well. The reason being it looked almost like a low-rider with the rear scraping the ground. This caused new spring rates to be issued for the 95's i believe when the 4.6 went into actual production.
From what I had gathered from ford, all the new motors are in someway or shape tritons in modular forms. IE same basic motors, just "chopped" into appropriate sizes.

Cougar, Now how usefull would a vette be in Canada, grow up J.K.
Like my self, you get'em cause you want'em.
i think that cars are really useless, but that hasn't stopped my wife and I from planning our 1st project car. 66-69 stang convertible, w/ a stroked out 302 to a 347 or well find a v-10 out of a SD and make a monster cruiser.