OIL
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,160
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From: Clarksville, Tennessee
Are synthetics necessary or worth it?
Well I was reading an Automobile magazine about the BMW 323i and it calls for a 15,000 mile oil change interval.
There is no way a conventional oil will last that long, without losing its viscosity.
When an x-30 weight oil gets hot it does not become a 30 weight oil, it carries the properties of a 30 weight oil at that temperature, so a 30 weight oil at 200 degrees is pretty thin, you can belive me.
So if you think that when you add a 5w30 oil that when it gets hot it get thicker you are wrong. It actually get thinner just the same as a straight weight 30 would do.
Synthetics will hold their desired visosity far longer than any conventional oil will. Also they will not resist the formation of sludge and varnish.
http://www.exxon.mobil.com/mobil1_ra...est/index.html
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Lube-Direct
New Lubrication Forums
[This message has been edited by msparks (edited 03-24-2000).]
[This message has been edited by msparks (edited 03-24-2000).]
Well I was reading an Automobile magazine about the BMW 323i and it calls for a 15,000 mile oil change interval.
There is no way a conventional oil will last that long, without losing its viscosity.
When an x-30 weight oil gets hot it does not become a 30 weight oil, it carries the properties of a 30 weight oil at that temperature, so a 30 weight oil at 200 degrees is pretty thin, you can belive me.
So if you think that when you add a 5w30 oil that when it gets hot it get thicker you are wrong. It actually get thinner just the same as a straight weight 30 would do.
Synthetics will hold their desired visosity far longer than any conventional oil will. Also they will not resist the formation of sludge and varnish.
http://www.exxon.mobil.com/mobil1_ra...est/index.html
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Lube-Direct
New Lubrication Forums
[This message has been edited by msparks (edited 03-24-2000).]
[This message has been edited by msparks (edited 03-24-2000).]
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,160
Likes: 0
From: Clarksville, Tennessee
""Use a 15W40 oil? Why not -- when it breaks down, it 'reverts' to the 15w -- and
would you rather have a 15w or a 5w during your peak hour of need?""
If it is conventional oil you can be assured that it will break down. The oil can last so long, but it will last longer than a 5w30 because the 15w can take higher temps before it will be broken down.
And actually your additives have a limited life span, conventional oils have "cheaper additives" and are only designed to last 5-7 thousand miles, wheareas synthetics have more expensive base stocks, and therefore more expensive additive packages that will last 50,000 miles or more. Because synthetic base stocks don't break down like conventional oil does. No matter what brand!
Go to my forums, I have posted a bunch of articles that go into detail about all of this.
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Lube-Direct
New Lubrication Forums
[This message has been edited by msparks (edited 03-24-2000).]
would you rather have a 15w or a 5w during your peak hour of need?""
If it is conventional oil you can be assured that it will break down. The oil can last so long, but it will last longer than a 5w30 because the 15w can take higher temps before it will be broken down.
And actually your additives have a limited life span, conventional oils have "cheaper additives" and are only designed to last 5-7 thousand miles, wheareas synthetics have more expensive base stocks, and therefore more expensive additive packages that will last 50,000 miles or more. Because synthetic base stocks don't break down like conventional oil does. No matter what brand!
Go to my forums, I have posted a bunch of articles that go into detail about all of this.
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Lube-Direct
New Lubrication Forums
[This message has been edited by msparks (edited 03-24-2000).]
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 191
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From: Kalamazoo, MI USA
If sparky keeps making statements like: "If it is conventional oil you can be assured that it will break down", he'll Never be able to sell a conventional oil with any credibility.
Hmmmm. Did I understand this correctly?
Ford wants no more than 5,000 mile change intervals, and...
...Mr. Lube-Direct admits that conventional oils are "designed to last 5-7 thousand miles"...
...and he further admits that the additives in (I assume the product that he represents) are a "more expensive additive packages that will last 50,000 miles or more"...
...doesn't that mean that if you ask the question "Are you wasting your money? If you change at 3000 miles -- yes" makes sense?
...and doesn't it make sense that, in gearboxes, where you can take advantage of the "more expensive additive packages that will last 50,000 miles or more" synthetics have a clear advantage?
Sparky, your point is ?
Hmmmm. Did I understand this correctly?
Ford wants no more than 5,000 mile change intervals, and...
...Mr. Lube-Direct admits that conventional oils are "designed to last 5-7 thousand miles"...
...and he further admits that the additives in (I assume the product that he represents) are a "more expensive additive packages that will last 50,000 miles or more"...
...doesn't that mean that if you ask the question "Are you wasting your money? If you change at 3000 miles -- yes" makes sense?
...and doesn't it make sense that, in gearboxes, where you can take advantage of the "more expensive additive packages that will last 50,000 miles or more" synthetics have a clear advantage?
Sparky, your point is ?
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,565
Likes: 1
From: Columbus, Georgia
Excellent information! I'll have to try out your oil forum msparks.
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2000 F-150 XLT, 4x2, Superchipped 5.4L Supercab, Styleside, Black with silver two-tone, 3.55 rear, class III towing package with heavy duty cooling package, 4 wheel disk ABS, overhead console, sliding rear window, keyless entry, dark graphite interior, in dash CD, factory leather wrapped steering wheel, Pendaliner bedliner, K&N air filter, rubberized undercoating, cabin filtration system, Bugflector II, 5W-30 Mobil 1, engine build 10/4/99
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2000 F-150 XLT, 4x2, Superchipped 5.4L Supercab, Styleside, Black with silver two-tone, 3.55 rear, class III towing package with heavy duty cooling package, 4 wheel disk ABS, overhead console, sliding rear window, keyless entry, dark graphite interior, in dash CD, factory leather wrapped steering wheel, Pendaliner bedliner, K&N air filter, rubberized undercoating, cabin filtration system, Bugflector II, 5W-30 Mobil 1, engine build 10/4/99
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,160
Likes: 0
From: Clarksville, Tennessee
jgorka,
If you really knew what synthetic oil was capable of you wouldn't belive it!
http://amsoil.com/lit/g1343.pdf
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Lube-Direct
New Lubrication Forums
If you really knew what synthetic oil was capable of you wouldn't belive it!
http://amsoil.com/lit/g1343.pdf
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Lube-Direct
New Lubrication Forums
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
From: Kalamazoo, MI USA
Sparky: What makes you think I DON'T? You yourself wrote: "...Also if you are changing your oil every 3,000 opposed to 5,000 you are losing money too. Any modern oil should easily make it to 5,000 miles. And most synthetics can go beyond that..."
Did you Read the posts?
It is undisputable that contaminants which are the byproducts of combustion are the killer of engine oil -- bar none.
That synthetics have better resistance to temperature and shear is not disputed.
That using the best is never in dispute -- unless the tradeoff in cost vs benefit renders it senseless.
When price is no object, then it doesn't matter.
You've got you back up, ears shut, and fingers a typin' -- but not making any point.
Fact is, nobody has compelling evidence that engines are going to last any longer or shorter by using a synthetic changed at 3,000 miles vs a good current conventional oil in today's automotive engines.
Without going way outside the limits of warranty requirements for engine oil change intervals, there's no economic value in using synthetics (in engines).
Nobody can fault using the best -- but still, at times -- good enough is 'good enough'.
Under normal conditions, using synthetic oil in your engine is like peeing your pants while wearing a dark suit...
...it may make you feel good and warm, but nobody will ever notice.
Did you Read the posts?
It is undisputable that contaminants which are the byproducts of combustion are the killer of engine oil -- bar none.
That synthetics have better resistance to temperature and shear is not disputed.
That using the best is never in dispute -- unless the tradeoff in cost vs benefit renders it senseless.
When price is no object, then it doesn't matter.
You've got you back up, ears shut, and fingers a typin' -- but not making any point.
Fact is, nobody has compelling evidence that engines are going to last any longer or shorter by using a synthetic changed at 3,000 miles vs a good current conventional oil in today's automotive engines.
Without going way outside the limits of warranty requirements for engine oil change intervals, there's no economic value in using synthetics (in engines).
Nobody can fault using the best -- but still, at times -- good enough is 'good enough'.
Under normal conditions, using synthetic oil in your engine is like peeing your pants while wearing a dark suit...
...it may make you feel good and warm, but nobody will ever notice.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 632
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From: DOT BOMB CITY!
AGAIN: IF you don't keep vehicles very long or are not planning to keep it long, NONE OF WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MATTERS!
Another point: 3000 mile intervals are the AVERAGE. If you drive a lot on the highway you can extend that interval with conventionals. The cold starts are whats killing your oil. A poorly running engine will also add to the demise of the oil. Conventionals CAN NOT handle anywhere near the punishment of a half decent synthetic!
Again: If your LEASING your vehicle, you change it at the intervals BY THE MANUAL... Who the hell cares what that engine looks like at 36,000????? Or even 60K... Or 100K...
One thing I CAN say: If your doing any kind of heavy towing you can bet you had better use synthetics WITH a oil & trans cooler! That I can garauntee you will do MAJOR damage to your engine with conventionals. I've seen a guy blow 3 engines pulling cattle. He won't use synthetics or a cooler!
[This message has been edited by Rand (edited 03-28-2000).]
