Hey to all those that have tried gutting the center post of the stock MAF or removing the rear plate to the MAF, would you mind posting your results, computer calibration, engine/tranny, and year of truck and if you have it chipped.

I will compile a list here and it may give us a clue to why some can do this mod and others cannot. It may be in the computer calibration.

Thanks!

97 4.6/5sp 747D - sucessful


For those who have no idea what I am talking here:

https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...hlight=MAF+mod

 

I was eager to remove the center post of the MAF but read responses pro and con. Nearly 50% of those who did the mod praised it while the other half shelled out big bucks for a new one due to computer problems.

Coincidentally it was an article written by Matt90GT at another "worldly" site that convinced me to try removing the backplate before committing to the actual post removal. I removed the backplate and drove about 30 -35 miles without incident so I went and removed the post and polished the MAF while I had it out. Had I gotten the light on the dash I could have easily replaced the cover and reset the computer without having trashed my MAF.

At the time I had no other mods. The MAF post removal was the very first mod I did. I was bone stock at the time. I never once reset the computer and have had no problems since.

I'm in a 1997 Lariat Supercab - short bed flareside. It's got a 4.6 and 4R70W auto trans, 3:55 LS rear end. Almost 19K miles on the odometer at this time

I don't know the computer code because the sticker is not in the dooor jamb where it should be. I will try to find it on the computer if I can and I'll edit this reply to include it. I guess I'll finally be ready to talk with Mike Troyer once I do!

Sorry for the lengthy reply but I was trying to give an accurate description. C ya!!

 

HI!... For those of you that have done this mod or bought a aftermarket MAF, be WARNED! This mod will cause your MAF to flow more air. Which in turn will cause you to run a LEAN condition on fuel/air ratio. Even the 80mm PRO-M maf unit WILL make you leaner by as much as 2 FULL points on FUEL/AIR ratio. If you have done this mod I would strongly advise you to give MIKE TROYER a call and get a custom SUPERCHIP for it or get your current SUPERCHIP re-worked for the LEAN out condition. Just thought you would like to know this tiny info. Resetting your computer after the MAF mod DOES NOT CORRECT FOR THE LEAN CONDITION!!!!!!!!

 

Not true neal. It is a 2 part deal.

I just want results. If it worked or not.


If you want to make a new thread about the tech behind this great.

 

HI!... MATT : I think you need to give MIKE TROYER , my good freind a call. You are WAY off on this.

 

no neal. thanks again for messing up an info search thread.

do the testing and post the results. Been there, done that, seen it done. Mike may know chips, but not nearly as much as ProFlo does on MAFs. I like mikes comments that the chip makes the truck shift so fast the belt chirps. HAHA, that was a funny one! I respect mike for his computer knowledge.

 

Well seeing the post is contaminated already, ........My chip does in fact cause the belt to chirp when it shifts!

If you remove an obstruction from the path of the air, you have the potential to flow more cfm, however the motor will only suck in what is needed. 1.5 CFM per HP, simply removing the post doesn't make the motor use more air.

The same volume of air will be injested,...... by removing the post, depending on demand, velocity of the air will be reduced, same volume of air in a larger opening it will flow slower.

High demand and the post may or may not be causing an obstruction, if it does, than removal should net gains, if not, it amounts to a waste of time.

I would think that unless the motor is modified, this is a waste of time. Altering the velocity of airflow, may effect the meters ability to provide proper data.

 

HI!... MATT : "MESSING UP A SEARCH THREAD" lol! I could'nt care less! I posted what I KNOW to be the truth from experience, I'm here trying to help some people from messing up their MAFS (50% of the time the maf porting fails) and to save some people their hard earned money. I've seen people do this mod and it has worked and it has failed. More of the time it has failed though. You mention PRO-M. I was on the phone yesterday with their tech department for more than an hour discussing larger MAF's for my truck. They suggested for me to go with the 87mm "BULLET" MAF for my specific application. The stock MAF on our trucks is rated at a 80mm, but once you take into account for the very restrictive sampling tube it actually only flows the same amount of air as a straight through 70mm MAF. The PRO-M 80MM MAF is a blow through design with the sampling tube relocate to a upper chamber so not to cause a ton of restriction and air turbulance. It is a TRUE 80mm MAF. This is straight from the tech department. On a bone stock engine you won't notice the leaner condition as much because of the restrictive exhaust and intake filter set-up. Now you put headers and a free flowing exhaust on (less backpreasure) and a free flowing intake with a open filter element, you have just caused the engine to BREATH better, which in turn increases volimetric effeicency. You must remember that a engine is pretty much one huge vacuum pump. The faster you can get the air into it, the more fuel you can mix with it and the more H.P/TORQUE you make. That's why when people are installing the PR0-M MAF that they are seeing up to a 2 point drop in their air/fuel rato's on the dyno's. Proven fact. If you run an engine too lean for a long period of time you can get bad detonation and severe engine damage can occur. Think of it this way. If you take a 1/4 inch diameter straw and start sucking air through it, it's pretty hard to do. Now you take a 3/4 inch diameter straw and do the same thing, it is much easier to do. The more mods you have done to a particular engine to make it have greater volimetric effeicency the more air is needed to feed it. If this was untrue then a larger MAF would do absolutely nothing for a performance gain and we would all be wasting our time and money buying larger MAF's and porting our stock ones. Just to let you know my belt never squeeled on my truck untill I installed my BAUMANN ENGINEERING shift kit on stage 5. After that I would get a belt squeel everytime during a full throttle upshift from 1ST to 2ND gear. This is caused from the shift being SO QUICK and HARD that the engine will actually rev fast for a split second during the shift causing the crank pulley to spin a bit fast for a split second before the accesories can catch up. This has happened pretty much on every vehicle I've owned in which a severe shift kit has been installed. So it is possible the the greater line preasure created with some SUPERCHIPS can duplicate this slightly. My solution to the belt squeel? I bought a 1 inch shorter belt which causes the belt tensioner to pull on it just a bit tighter causing the belt to crab the drive pulleys slightly better. I hav'nt had a belt squeel in 2 years now.

 

Matt-
Sorry to further ruin your thread, but I've got a question for neal about this.

Neal-
I'm not up on the modular engines the way I should be, but that shouldn't matter. Anyway, why would "porting" a MAF create a lean condition? I thought it was the MAF that determined the amount of airflow for the ECM, helping it to determine the proper amount of fuel to be injected. If the MAF flow was increased, wouldn't that same MAF be able to detect it? Please fill me in on this. Thanks!

Take care,
-Chris

 

Matt,

Sorry, look like the intent of the thread is destroyed already. Hate to add fuel to the fire but....... Good luck if you start another thread. BTW I'd really like to here your opinion on this as I also differ with the thoughts behind most of these posts. I think I know your train of thought. Spend time on the tuner forums?


Pkrwud,

Calibration is the key. Porting and modding will flow in your MAF without changing calibration and the way the computer deals with it. The end result is more air, but traveling at lower velocity through the MAF. This would make the computer think it is less air, which would change the A/F ratios as the computer adjusts for what it thinks is correct. From my understanding it is also possible that this changes the timing curve. The truck senses high load and low intake velocity.



As the systems in these cars and trucks get smarter, it takes different thinking to fool them. Having spent some time on the tuner forums, I've learned that there are a lot more variables involved than most people think. Different calibrations also work in different ways - the Mustang crowd figured this out long ago and will seek out computers of certain calibrations.


Matt may be on to something here. Let's give him a chance to check out his theory, it could benefit many of us.



My '95 MAF is stock. Matt, if you have any scoop on the earlier truck calibrations I'd appreciate it. Post here or if you want, my email address is in my profile.

 

Thank you very much! That explains it perfectly. I was thinking in terms of volume, not velocity. I'll pass my L1 one of these days!

Thanks again!

Take care,
-Chris

 

Matt,

I would suggest surveying only the 97-98 metal MAF sensors. The Plastic ones do not lend themselves very well to modification. I have one of the plastic ones. I cut the tower down. having done that it set a MAF code. I was lucky that I was able to glue back the tower parts and now it is about 1/8 inch shorter.
I doesn't set a code and it has not become unglued. As you most likely know, some PCM have broad enough parameters that they are able to compensate for the decrease in obstruction of the MAF. I am guessing that your survey is to discover which PCMs are able to compensate. Looks like this will be hard to do.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier

 

HI!... PKRWUD : The whole key is that the MAF sensor has been pre-calibrated from the factory to adjust it'self for a certain amount of air flow from the factory set-up. The PCM then has a pre-set program to adjust it'self to a limited certain amount of calibration to adjust to the MAF. When you go to a larger aftermarket MAF or port the stock one you mess up this pre-set calibration. So when the MAF indeed flows a larger quantity of air, the MAF can't adjust to it fully. Therefore the PCM can only add enough fuel to the signal that the MAF sends to it. Which in turn can cause a LEAN conditon depending on the amount of material removed from a stock MAF or how much larger a aftermarket MAF you have installed. Hope this helps you understand a bit better how the whole theory goes. It's kind of hard to explain to someone without being there to show them.

 

Would increasing the injector size at the same time help compensate for the lean condition. I have thought about going with the C&L *0mm MAF unit with a 75mm throttle body and going from 19 to either 24 or 30 on the injectors. would this cause too much of a problem with the computer?



97 F150 XL 4X4 reg cab long bed
4.6 auto w/ B&M shift kit....kicks ***
open airbox w/ k&N
True Dual exhuast w/ Dynomax race magnum bullet mufflers
exiting before rear tire on pasenger side
Auto Meter 3 3/4 dash mounted Tach
8mm Beldon wires
Proggresve rims w/ Kelly MSR 285-75-16
tool box
cool blue headlights
60/40 seat from a '99
12 disc JVC changer and head unit

 

HI!... MY97F1504X4 : Increasing your injectors size won't help in this case and can actuall make you run even leaner. For instance I still have the factory 80mm MAF on my 5.4. It is still calibrated to support a 19lb injector which is the stock injector size for the 5.4. I have installed FMS 24lb injectors on my 5.4 with plans to do the PRO-M 87mm "BULLET" MAF about a week later. Well because of a FUNDS problem, I never got around to installing the aftermarket MAF. My truck is running really lean on top end right now. At the dragstrip my truck runs out of fuel (fuel starvation) at about the 1100ft mark. 1/4 mile is 1320ft. Now I had MIKE TROYER make me a SUPERCHIP "FLIP-CHIP" that was recalibrated for the lean out problem assosiated with the PRO-M units. Now I can't run this new chip until I get the PRO-M. Just for a test, I called MIKE T and asked him what would happen if I ran the recalibrated chip with my stock MAF. He told me because he richened up the fuel ratio by about 2 full points because of the PRO-M lean out problems that installing that chip with my stock MAF would cause me to run SEVERELY rich. Well I decided to install it and see what would happen. MAN! My truck hauled a$$ more than ever! I could hit 128MPH with only half throttle where with my other chip I had to go FULL throttle to get that speed. The only problem is because of the new chip was set up for a PRO-M that it was messing up my tranny shift points, so I could'nt run the chip. As for fuel injectos, you must remember that a 19lb injector can support up to 304 H.P at the flywheel. If you are not making this much H.P, you DO NOT need to upgrade. The set-up for determinating the required fuel injector goes like this : Take your FLYWHEEL H.P and divide it by 2, then take that # and divide it by the # of cylinders you have. In your case 8. You don't gain H.P by going to larger injectors unless you are maxing out the current ones, causeing you to lose H.P. You can force a injector to flow more by simply adjusting the fuel preasure regulator to flow more fuel, but that is'nt an option on our trucks since we don't have an adjustable fuel regulator. Are's are pre-set from the factory.