Jet, that was my argument to the hubby. But, advancements in science blah, blah, blah. I wanted other opinions, he had plans on attacking my truck this week. Yeah no.

 

It's NOT new. These scams have been coming up ever since I can remember and I'm OLD.. Every gas crisis since the 70's some guy comes out with a deal that turns water into hydrogen..

 

Yes, -very good. -Nope, I'm not going for that. Pointless ? I disagree, -hopefully you'll learn. Then again, look how much time you just wasted on me....

Assumption does begin a s s. - Clever girl, maybe school is paying off.

The first two reply's to your post had meaning. The fact that you don't appreciate that, even a little, pretty much cuts thru your phony baloney or makes you transparent.

Save your crap for someone else, it won't work on me.

 

Brew, Did some one P in your Wheaties this morning? This is a forum for asking questions. You are being a little more harsh than usual.

 

Yes, Jim, you are usually a big help to members, but you are a little harsh here. Ease up a bit.

 

RhondaRocks, as a straight answer as I can give you- they don't work at all as a fuel generator. I've seen hundreds of these contraptions come thru the center to be tested and not one did anything but drain the wallet of the buyer. There are several issues here that you might want to know. Hydrogen is a very poor fuel for an internal combustion engine. You have to use a tremendous amount of it to get any power at all. Then your vehicle has to be tuned to use the fuel. So for those two items, you can't carry enough of it to matter and the engine is not tuned to use it. But that doesn't mean that water injection is a total waste. What we found out in WWII is that a water injection system will clean the internals of carbon deposits better than any chemical cleaner to date. I would assume that the poor mileage of the Focus was helped by the cleaning effects. My girl has a focus and I get 42-44 mpg hiway and 32-34 town with the 2.0 engine with A/C running. She has an automatic tranny in hers. For your truck, expect nothing and you won't be disappointed. They are a waste of money but if it makes the hubby happy, it shouldn't hurt anything unless you make short trips. Short trips and a water vapor injection is going to make a ton of sludge. If you are driving a 5.4, sludge is yer worst enemy for engine life. If the truck still has any warranty and should you have any kind of engine failure, yer on yer own as Ford is not going to warrant the engine. This is another Buyer Beware.

For a little history on Brown gas also known in the States as hydrogen generators, Mr Brown was from Australia where he came up with this "miracle" fuel that you can make on your own. After being sued numerous times for fraudulent claims, the Australian Gov't will no longer allow him to do any business at all in Australia. He is now selling his "kits" worldwide to anyone with very little grey matter and is clueless how the computerized internal combustion engine works. Like I said above, some engines respond to the cleaning effects but to use hydrogen as a fuel is a joke.

 

 

CHILL THE HELL OUT. If people knew the answers they wouldn't be on the forum. Not everyone is a mechanical whiz! Different people have different aptitudes.

 

Yeah I know... I think this is stemming from.... "President Bush has made a challenge to the American people to begin running our cars on hydrogen as soon as possible, and has allocated over one billion dollars for research to find out how to do that."

http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/...ar/h20car2.htm

 

Nice job protecting the shirt fellas. It's not at all about asking questions. That was added only after. Thought most would have been smarter than than that.

Honestly, what this was really for is the cut down to two long term members of this site, AFTER pointing the OP in right direction. My reply being the first of two directing the OP to what it was, "a joke". The second reply suggested the theory being the or the same nature. Yes they were short, blunt, not pretty and pink, but to the point. The OP crapped on them. I would back up any member in the past IF they were correct.

It's been a long run, -fun for the most part. Thanks and good luck

jbrew.

 

I'm with you jbrew, if people are too lazy to research for themselves let them waste their time and money. She obviously did not search this forum or any other sites as this topic has been picked apart many times here and never has anyone posted proof of any gains, just hearsay crap like Rhonda is claiming here. Does your hubby have any mechanical engineering or automotive industry background? I'm going to guess, No. Funny thing is, neither are required to understand why this cannot work, simple chemistry can do that.

I'll make it very simple to understand why this cant work since you seem to need things broken down for you. First off, the basic piece of hardware known as a hydrogen fuel cell doesn't produce hydrogen to burn in a combustion engine, it reacts chemically to produce electricity to power an electric motor. That is not what you have. You have a jar of water using electricity generated by the vehicle to disassociate (split) water into hydrogen and oxygen. You then burn the hydrogen for supposed MPG gains, but here's your problem, you aren't creating enough hydrogen to even move a foot. Here's why... Stay with me college girl, here come some numbers.

While hydrogen has more energy per pound than gasoline (61,100 BTUs versus 20,900 BTUs) the issue is that hydrogen is much, much less dense (less pounds per gallon) than gas or diesel. A gallon of gasoline weighs about 6 pounds. So that gallon of gas has 125,400 BTUs (6 lbs x 20,900 BTU/lb). Now a gallon of liquid hydrogen only weighs about 0.567 pounds and yields only 34,643 BTUs (0.567 lb x 61,100 BTU/lb).

Of course you aren't making liquid hydrogen, you're making a gas. In its gas form hydrogen is even less dense. Even at 5,000 psi gaseous hydrogen only has a density of about 0.25 pounds per gallon, but the real kicker is you're not creating the hydrogen at 5,000 psi, but at atmospheric pressure, say about 15 psi. So now you're talking about a gallon of hydrogen that weighs about 0.00075 lbs and has an energy of about 46 BTUs. That's the equivalent of 0.00036 gallons of gasoline.

Now do you understand why this can't work, there isn't enough energy in what little hydrogen you produce to make a difference. To top it off, you risk running your engine lean (which would increase MPGs, not the addition of any hydrogen) which can increase engine temps and damage components in your engine.

Wow, working 2 jobs while going to school, do you want a cookie? Why not just have your mommy pay for your gas in addition to your clothes? Is it that you are you learning that nobody likes spoiled brats or would it emasculate your husband?

- NCSU

 

Just a footnote to what I posted earlier.

When I first started researching this technology around the middle of 2008 (when gas was shooting through the roof), I knew that it couldn't be as simple as splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen gasses (using the vehicle's alternator), then burning those gasses in the engine, since that's just a perpetual motion machine. Yet, people had documented proof that their mileage was improved after installing these "systems" (there was a main website -- www.water4gas.com -- that sold the bulk of them). Heh, I see that site is still in business even now...man, there's no shortage of rubes out there. So if people were getting better mileage, yet the basics were just a perpetual-motion machine, what was the reason? This is what I wanted to find out.

By digging through various other materials where people had done a more in-depth analysis, I came across the finding that the "electronic module" you install along with the water4gas system, just put a resistor network into the engine's air-management sensors, which caused the sensors to give bogus readings to the engine computer. Obviously, the leaner you run an engine, the less fuel it will use. But if that was all there was to it, ALL the manufacturers would be doing it. (Cue the conspiracy theories about how the automakers are in collusion with the oil companies...but I don't believe it.)
No, the reason that the automakers run their engines at a certain fuel/air ratio is because it's the ratio that is overall most-efficient, produces the right balance of combustion temps (less NOx emissions, longer engine life) and so forth. If you choose to run your engine overly lean as a way to save money on gas, it's your choice...but at least you should know that's what you're really doing, and that replacing a wrecked engine is a LOT more expensive than the fuel savings you might get from decreasing the fuel/air ratio.

Note: The way I eventually solved this was to trade my '07 F-150 for an '11 with an EcoBoost. THAT was the right way to do it.

 

NCSU since you have apparently not understood the 'mommy' comment. It was blatant sarcasm directed toward someone who assumes I expect to be treated better than others, such as your comment also implies. No one supports me other than myself, thus includes my spouse.
To put this to rest:
I am NOT a expecting a "cookie" by working my way through school. I'm fully aware many others have done so. I asked the question merely to assertain if any 'new' very recent developments have came about since science & technology progress rapidly. (Ok this next bit will be heavy on sarcasm--->.) I'll be sure to do my 20 hail Mary's for the sin of omitting the key words 'new, recent, current developements' within my original thread. An obvious fast track to h#ll on this forum is leaving out such critical wording. <---- End sarcasm.

What I do appreciate is the time & effort from those, yourself included (minus your implications of myself & husband being spoiled & stupid, I'll assume your mensa membership is still valid right?). Said light heartedly so don't get all twisted.

What I DO NOT appreciate is the implication that my husband & myself are completely stupid or spoiled. We both work hard the same as most & nothing is given to either of us. I asked the question hoping to gain current up to date info, not to be accused of being stupid or spoiled. I never had a problem with someone having a difference of opinion, only blatant rude comments that serve no purpose. Is there anything else I need to clarify regarding the issue?
Rhonda

 

The most important thing my dad taught me as a kid was "... you just don't get something for nothing..."

I view pretty much all of life through this lens ...

 

You've earned the right to get a little ornery IMO. This has came up on this board many times and is usually a spammer/con man and not legitimate so I can see why jbrew would go off. I dont think that was Rhonda's intention here and all she just posted a question albeit a rehashed one..