I was actually going to mention the part about the letting it idle for a 'long' time and then only drive a couple of miles in my post, but it was starting to read like a boring love story, so I kept it short...

I know that's what caused your sludge problem... Why it didn't do it in your Exploder might be that it's a V6 and warms up faster on a short trip..

I'll drive the wifes Rav4 when I've got to make a quick trip to the store that's a mile away.. Did it this morning as a matter of fact, when it was about 35* outside..

By the time I got back home, the Rav was just about to full operating temp... Might be because I think the whole cooling system is maybe 2 gallons... Our F150's have around 5 gallons of coolant to warm up!

All I know is my truck is pumping out hot air from it's vents after it's cold start and go by the time I'm getting onto the freeway, which is about 2 miles away...

When I flush the rad, I'll take it on a 3 mile loop around my neighborhood to get it to operating temp faster then just letting it idle up to it's temp.

Again, it's all what works best for you and what you choose to do... I'm not saying what I do is always the right thing to do... Believe me, I've made a lot of mistakes in my life!!

Mitch

 

Electric fans help for a faster warm up. If I start the truck (with mechanical fan) and drive to work ill never see any rise on the temp gauge, but if I take the car (E-fans) Ill see proper operating temps.

Labnerd, contrary to your belief, it was a Shell video. I wasnt able to find it online (it was 7 years ago when I was in college when i seen it) but I found an Esso one that is vary similar. This one is about heavy equipment but they demonstrate a 0 weight to a 10 weight at 5 minutes in on the video in a 4 banger car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiQy...eature=related
I have no idea why you feel the need to talk down on me... Must be because Im Canadian

 

excellent video shifty, very informative. makes me wish i could use a oil pan heater for winter.

labnerd, would i really have to worry about sludge if im driving for 30 minutes after the warmup?

 

I let mine idle for 30 secs. and i'm off. The only problem I have is I live on a busy street and soon as you pull out of my drive way the truck aint warmed up and somones on your butt. So sometimes you gotta punch it when cold.

 

Or slam on the brakes... That will back them off quite a bit.

 

I never thought of that!!

 

Seriously, it works for the tailgaters.

 

I've been avoiding the remote start in the mornings because of this... idle down and go and it uses less gas too

 

Not stopping and at stoplights/stop signs and ped x-walks uses less gas too...

 

if it takes Min's for the cams to get oil all of theses motors would lock up soild. my buddys oil pump went bad in his 5.4 expy and within about 15 seconds the motor locked up.

maybe its on an OHV motor?? SOHC and DOHC motors the cams are pressurized with oil thats why these motors have crazy oil pressure. when i first start my truck it has almost 80-90PSI of oil pressure at 20* or colder.

ill have to pop the filler cap and see how long it takes oil to get on the first part of the cam.

i have a remote start sometimes i let it run. sometimes i just fire it up and go.

 

You guys may think Labnerd is talking down to you, but I for 1 disagree. He knows his stuff!!! I don't give a rat's behind if I learn something new that I can "take to the bank" from somebody I don't care for, I'm the only one losing if I reject it. For those of you who this applies to, take the chip off your shoulder and don't wear your feelings on your sleeve. You'll learn a whole lot less in life if you don't! This thread is filled with a lot of the stuff you can "take to the bank". But some of it you better not or they'll arrest you for passing counterfeit. I am hard pressed to remember the time Labnerd EVER passed counterfeit here. Take it for what it's worth, it's not counterfeit!

 

What I love is my wife still believes you need to floor it to start a vehicle. I'm afraid to hear what the engine would sound like initially @ -20 but thankfully my blood pressure plugged up my ears!

The newer mechanical fans that operate off an electronic clutch resolves the older issue of engines taking awhile to warm up. But, the best medicine really is to not let these engines idle all the time but I still do in the winter.

 

I don't believe that anyone commenting so far really deserves to be talked down to. There are multiple issues at play here. The experience of someone who grew up in the milder climes of the US (SoCal or S. Texas, for example) will naturally be different than someone who grew up in Canada.

Back in the pre-FI days when the start-up process was controlled by mainly mechanical devices (bi-metal springs, no computers, etc.) in the fuel system, warming up was all too common - especially as an individual's car got older. That all changed starting in the 80's. Nowadays everything is much more organized and under control. Thermocouples and electric actuators have replaced the less reliable mechanical components of old, and since around the mid-80's we have the supremely useful feedback of O2 sensors to give the ECM instant feedback on the quality of the exhaust stream where, as we all know, getting to the optimum temperature as quickly as possible along the way, is highly important for efficient combustion and reduced exhaust emissions.

Truly, these are marvelous developments - for the fuel system. But the engine oil - that's a different matter all together. Whether it's dinosaur or synthetic, the battle between cold and viscosity has not changed nearly as much. Cold is cold, and if you have the wrong oil (including oil that is just too old) it can take MUCH longer than any of us care to think for that oil to reach critical areas of the engine - and, as the above video points out, WITHOUT the knowledge of the driver.

I worked with a colleague from Vancouver a while back who, upon graduating from engineering school, interviewed with a mining company, as he put it, "way north in the Canadian wilderness.". This was in a place which was inhabited only because of the mining potential. It was winter when he visited, and he said it was so cold that no one shut their engine off during the dead of winter, period, because if the engine got cold, the engine would not start, period. When they got to work, they left their personal vehicles running in the parking lot while at work. When they got home at night, the engine would idle all night in the driveway. All winter. (Every vehicle that lived there was diesel, and, no, he didn't take the job, btw.) of course, if a vehicle was garages, the situation wasn't quite the same, but I'm referring to the totally un-garaged ones. Did oil viscosity play a major roll in that? Without question, it did. An extreme case, to be sure, but very relevant to the matter at hand.

Do they still do that? I dunno. My guess is that they do, because engine oil hasn't change that much in the ensuing years. (Of course, there are other factors as well - the electrical system, for example).

Someone also mentioned something about an engine that crapped out 15 or so seconds after the oil pump failed. Again, I don't know for sure, but my guess is that the oil pump didn't "just fail" for something like that to occur. Whatever was going on probably had been going on for some time before it became known to the owner via obvious symptoms. Whatever seized had been starved for longer than 15 seconds, maybe starve periodically over a period of days, weeks, or months. But that's just a guess.

Someone else also mentioned that oil pressure hits a certain value (80 or 90 psi, if I recall correctly) right away. Well, keep in mind that pressure is not the same thing as flow. I think the pressure sending unit is generally located right after the oil filter on pretty much all engines, and the oil filter is the first place the oil goes after the pump. So, even if you're pumping molasses, yeah, I believe that the pressure will hit a decent operating value right away, but that doesn't mean you have oil FLOW at the cam towers at that point. It just means the oil is on the way. And again, as the video points out, the driver is totally unaware of the FLOW status.

So, should I warm up? I believe all virtually all car designers these days design their vehicles for relatively quick (by that I mean in less than a minute) drive off, because it's better for both the environment and the wallet, and also because it's POSSIBLE, regardless of temperature, because of that marvelous engine control system. So that's what I do. BTW, I live in Colorado, I drive an '02 Harley edition (supercharged), and I run Mobil synthetic year round. And I drive gently until the temperature gauge tells me I'm at op temp.

Should you warm up? Again, I dunno. My first question to you would be "how good is the oil in your vehicle right now?"

Best regards to all.

 

Amen to that! I drive buses at my campus for my second job and I average 5 in the International :O I think the big older ones with the Detriot Diesels are 2-3 mpg

 

I dont think that within 15seconds of an oil pump failing, the motor seized. There was probably issues with the pump prior or there was a blockage.
Ive drained oil out of a V6 ohc and ran the snot out of it in 1st gear to purposely blow it. After 2 min it was still running.
My brothers mustang blew the connecting rod off number 7, ripped the oil pump off and sent it into the side of the pan. It was a pushrod motor but we still drove the car home, shook like a bastard but still ran.
Ive rebuilt many motors that have died due to oiling problems, and none were never instant like that.

Im not at all offended by him, I just find it funny that he has no doubt im wrong. I know what I saw/learned while in school for my trade. Im just passing info about oil in cold weather. Alot of guys will never see the temps I see on a yearly bases when its -40 out and hearing the truck slowly turning over due to thickened oil from the cold

Excellent post my friend.
In a extreme cold snap, yes they still do leave cars/trucks running. People will leave their diesels running more often because of the fuel will gel and that glow plugs can only do so much.
You are right about pressure and flow. If you have a total blockage to both heads, you will still see pressure at the gauge but no flow to the top end.