Engine Blueprint

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Oct 10, 2010 | 02:13 PM
  #1  
OGTerror's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,075
Likes: 0
From: Yorba Linda, CA
Engine Blueprint

Some of you may know this but for those who don't, I have approved to have a new engine installed in my truck.

Reason:

After the added modifications to my truck and using the components at its fullest the engine and transmission on my truck cannot/couldn't handle my constant abuse.

Transmission has been rebuild with upgraded off road components similar to component found in trophy trucks.

Now, a new engine is being worked on after I approved to have it blue printed by the folks at Performance Associates located in San Dimas, CA.


An engine blueprint is something beloved of racers and car enthusiasts as the engine is set at its proper factory specifications. This often isn’t the case when the car rolls off the production line. It allows the vehicle to perform exactly as it’s supposed to perform. Usually with increased horsepower and much greater reliability than you might otherwise find.

1 - Why An Engine Blueprint?

The standard production car engine isn’t made to the exact tolerances many people think. In fact they’re quite loose, so the performance certainly isn’t all it could be. An engine blueprint takes those proper factory specifications for the engine and makes sure all parts conform to it exactly, to the minutest tolerances.

It’s mostly employed by racers, and in every respect, an engine blueprint is a new engine, since the parts have to be replaced. Whether it’s engine studs or piston rings or the carburetor.

The increase in performance is invariably dramatic and enough to satisfy those who put vehicles through their paces around the race track. It takes time to make changes to everything in the engine and it’s certainly not cheap, costing around $2,000. The end product, however, is an engine you can trust. While having an engine blueprint job you can also make other engine modifications, too.

2 - What An Engine Blueprint Does

An engine blueprint tears the engine apart and rebuilds it exactly the way the designer meant it to be built. Even items like the water pump are replaced with highly efficient ones.

There’s absolute attention to detail, with piston bores made perfect and extremely careful cleaning of the heads, for instance, as well as the engine block. You’re more than paying for a new engine, you’re paying for the perfect engine for your vehicle. Which is exactly what you need if you’re racing.

3 - Who Uses it

An engine blueprint isn’t something every driver will want for their vehicle. It’s not worth the money to them. For those who truly depend on their engines and want the very best out of them, such as the hot rod driver, they can be worth every cent of the price.

Racers are always pushing their motors as hard as they can, all the way to the limit, and they want an engine that’s not going to fail them as they do that. The sheer reliability and performance of a car that’s had an engine blueprint is hard to beat.

The level of detail is far beyond anything most mechanics attempt, even on an engine rebuild. All parts are checked and often magnafluxed, in an attempt to determine cracks that might be below the surface, not visible to the naked eye.

4 - The Advantages

An engine blueprint job will give you an engine you can trust when racing. It still needs a great deal of maintenance, but it’s far less likely to break down on you on the circuit, and could repay the amount you’ve spent many times over in cutting repair bills and gaining your trophies.
Information obtained Here
 

Last edited by OGTerror; Dec 2, 2010 at 06:45 PM.
Reply
Old Oct 10, 2010 | 02:39 PM
  #2  
azmidget91's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,719
Likes: 0
From: Maricopa, AZ
hopefully you get this all done and stop having problems
 
Reply
Old Oct 10, 2010 | 03:08 PM
  #3  
FATHERFORD's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,102
Likes: 0
From: Waco/Houston
Pretty much any "built" engine is blue printed...

I'm looking just to go with MMR's Manley rod/piston, rings, and ARP bolts, balanced and block bored/honed at a local shop, and file fitting the rings myself. I bought a factory short block for $200 which is a NVH block and 8 bolt forged crank. The MMR setup is $999, machine work is $400-500. Through in bearings, arp main bolt kit, oil pump, and possibly a home made crank scraper and I'll have a solid motor that can support over 1000rwhp for around $2000 give or take.

Sell my old shortblock for $200-400 and ill have 1800ish in a built shortblock...

It pays to know how to do your own work.
 
Reply
Old Oct 11, 2010 | 02:28 PM
  #4  
OGTerror's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,075
Likes: 0
From: Yorba Linda, CA
^^^ Really, is that cheap and simple huh.

I'll call Randy tomorrow and cancel my order and do it myself then. That will save me 8 grand.

Thanks for the info bud.
 
Reply
Old Oct 11, 2010 | 03:54 PM
  #5  
JimmysotherFORD's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
From: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted by OGTerror
^^^ Really, is that cheap and simple huh.

I'll call Randy tomorrow and cancel my order and do it myself then. That will save me 8 grand.

Thanks for the info bud.
um if you where gonna pay $8,000 for a built motor, maybe you shouldn't do it your self.

a built motor should never cost $8,000. full on race motors, you'll only spend 5-6 grand. if your gonna pay $8,000 for a motor it better have a shiny new supercharger on it.
 
Reply
Old Oct 11, 2010 | 04:27 PM
  #6  
OGTerror's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,075
Likes: 0
From: Yorba Linda, CA
Originally Posted by JimmysotherFORD
um if you where gonna pay $8,000 for a built motor, maybe you shouldn't do it your self.

a built motor should never cost $8,000. full on race motors, you'll only spend 5-6 grand. if your gonna pay $8,000 for a motor it better have a shiny new supercharger on it.
8 grand, hell no! How about this, it is coasting me 10 grand no supercharger.
 
Reply
Old Oct 11, 2010 | 04:42 PM
  #7  
Norm's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,278
Likes: 0
From: Seabrook,NH
Does that include a reach around?
 
Reply

Trending Topics

Old Oct 11, 2010 | 06:23 PM
  #8  
jgger's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,581
Likes: 6
From: Corona, Crazyfornia
I know an old Drag racer/engine builder (he's past away now) but his motors went for about 20-25k. I think he had a waiting list also.
 
Reply
Old Oct 11, 2010 | 07:48 PM
  #9  
OGTerror's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,075
Likes: 0
From: Yorba Linda, CA
Originally Posted by Norm
Does that include a reach around?
Nope and it doesn't even include the Vaseline.
 
Reply
Old Oct 11, 2010 | 09:18 PM
  #10  
Labnerd's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,226
Likes: 42
From: So. Texas
OGT, blue printing of a modern engine is really not necessary. The "facts" as listed in the advertising hype is just that, advertising hype. The Triton engines are not built anything like the old FEs or Y model engines. They use the latest technologies to make these engines and they are pretty well made. Little is to be gained from a blue print. If you are taking the truck to them and leaving it to come back later for a complete new engine to already be installed with some mods, the price may not be out of line. But for a stock engine, it's a rip.

Performance Assoc., I've had 2 engines from them back when I was racing squirt boats. The first 385 series popped on the first run. My father in law took it back to Cali on his next trip and had them rebuild another one. It lasted the entire season with a 10,000 rpm rev limiter on it. It was making right at 2800 HP. So I'll assume they still do good work. I would hate to have to venture a guess at what one would cost today.
 
Reply
Old Oct 12, 2010 | 12:09 AM
  #11  
Klitch's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,920
Likes: 5
From: Washington
I'm not seeing how you guys are jumping up and down about 8k into a motor.

complete fresh bottom end for mine cost just about $1800, new bearings, rods, pistons, and crank. all forged. Tossed in a stud girdle for good measure and future potential modifications.

Block prep (clean, flux, yadda yadda) $600

Modified heads $2500 (rough)

Bang $5k.
No gaskets, no tensioners, no new timing chain. I mean come on all those little parts add up fast too. I think the front end of the motor cost about $275 (chain,guides etc.) I mean hell, even a fresh oil pump is like $300 for a good one! I mean if you dont consider every thing you SHOULD replace w/ a fresh motor...
 

Last edited by Klitch; Oct 12, 2010 at 12:18 AM.
Reply
Old Oct 12, 2010 | 06:35 AM
  #12  
FATHERFORD's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,102
Likes: 0
From: Waco/Houston
Originally Posted by Klitch
I'm not seeing how you guys are jumping up and down about 8k into a motor.

complete fresh bottom end for mine cost just about $1800, new bearings, rods, pistons, and crank. all forged. Tossed in a stud girdle for good measure and future potential modifications.

Block prep (clean, flux, yadda yadda) $600

Modified heads $2500 (rough)

Bang $5k.
No gaskets, no tensioners, no new timing chain. I mean come on all those little parts add up fast too. I think the front end of the motor cost about $275 (chain,guides etc.) I mean hell, even a fresh oil pump is like $300 for a good one! I mean if you dont consider every thing you SHOULD replace w/ a fresh motor...
If he is doing EVERYTHING including labor then yes... 8-10k halfway makes sense...

MMR, JLP, JDM, WWM, etc will sell you a complete warranted short block for 3k give or take a few hundred... You have to remember the 04 up trucks already have the Stronger NVH block and the 8 bolt forged crank(the same that came in lightnings/ford gt's). The crank alone is nearly $400 new. I looked around for what was about 3 hours and found a 06 F-150 5.4 complete long block for a whopping $350...

Heads depend on how and who you send them too.. Everyone is within a few CFM of eachother, but with HUGE variances in price. Shop around on that one. IF his heads are still good for anywhere from $1000-2000 dollars can get him a bad@$$ port job with some oversized valves etc. Brand new worked heads around 3k... Personally I would just find a good used set of stock heads for $100-200 and send them in for work and save a good chunk of change.

The guys talking $25k for an engine are not in the same level that would be put into our trucks... I've worked on engines that cost 85k... They have a bunch of 1 off exotic pieces. A factory block, factory forged crank, some h-beam rods with forged pistons will never be around that price.

Down here in Houston I know for fact for $10k you can drop off a broken motor truck, come pick it up 2 weeks later with a built shortblock, slightly worked heads, a whipple supercharger, injectors, tuner, custom dyno tunes, etc.
 

Last edited by FATHERFORD; Oct 12, 2010 at 06:46 AM.
Reply
Old Oct 12, 2010 | 11:27 AM
  #13  
OGTerror's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,075
Likes: 0
From: Yorba Linda, CA
FatherFord, how many 5.4 engines have you taken out of a truck like mine and how proficient have you been at building the engine to spec and standing behind it for 2 grand.
 

Last edited by OGTerror; Oct 12, 2010 at 11:36 AM.
Reply
Old Oct 12, 2010 | 04:49 PM
  #14  
ONELOWF's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,805
Likes: 2
From: NEVADA
Originally Posted by OGTerror
FatherFord, how many 5.4 engines have you taken out of a truck like mine and how proficient have you been at building the engine to spec and standing behind it for 2 grand.
He does not have to stand behind it, but has to drive it! lol

He has the skill set to do the work, so only costs are parts and machine work.

Personally, I would just use the telephone....." Hi MMR? here's my CC number. "
 
Reply
Old Oct 12, 2010 | 08:37 PM
  #15  
FATHERFORD's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,102
Likes: 0
From: Waco/Houston
Originally Posted by OGTerror
FatherFord, how many 5.4 engines have you taken out of a truck like mine and how proficient have you been at building the engine to spec and standing behind it for 2 grand.
You are acting like building engines and putting it in a vehicle is rocket science....

You really don't take the engine out of the truck for one thing. You take the cab off the frame.

I've built plenty of engines and stand behind them.. I don't do it for other people though at cost. That is bad business practice I don't even do work for other people anymore, you couldn't pay me enough to work on other peoples cars. I quickly learned that if the builder/me is not involved in every part of the build process the customer, their friend, their "awesome" tuner screwed something up in the process point the finger at everyone but their selves..

Someone once had the ***** to blame me for their engine knocking. I built it, put it in their car, fixed all the screw-ups when they rewired the harness, and got the car running. There were a few things to do which we went over, which one was not to drive the car until the radiator fan was installed. I gave him a hell of a deal.

He called me that weekend telling me the engine was knocking. I told him to stop driving the car and I would come look at it on Saturday. That Friday night he was out in his car at the local cruise spot bad mouthing me. I just happen to show up and see him.... The car had a massive water puddle under it over heating.. He never installed the fan and overheated the engine... He had been racing all week and that night...

Come to find out he couldn't afford to feed his children, and was 3 months late on his house payments. He was trying to get his money back.

That was the last time I did work for anyone...

Really not sure what you are trying to prove though...
 
Reply



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:34 AM.