Well then I guess I need to try some of that e85. Maybe next time I head down to St Louis. Does anyone know of a good station on I55 out of Chicago that has e85 for $1 less?

 

I've yet to hear of any E85 station anywhere in the country where it's $1 less than gas. I kinda think you are dreaming there.

 

Hmmm....

There is no cost savings, reduced mileage offsets the lower price, which is only lower because of gov't subsidies, which means we are ALL paying for E85 whether we use it or not.

"Cleaner burning" ignores the environmental impact of all the fuel, chemicals, and water used in the growth/refinement.

Corn being shifted to E85 production has changed the market for corn and raised the price of almost all groceries we buy, which again means we are ALL paying for E85 whether we use it or not.

The ONLY reason corn is being used over something with much more potential such as switchgrass is because the ever powerful farm lobby has prevented money from going to the development of other sources.

It is physically impossible to grown enough corn in this country to produce enough E85 to make any significant dent in our fuel supply, it is the farm lobby and corrupt politics that has pushed massive amounts of tax dollars into E85 production.


"really good thing" my ***.....

 

UM..... NO... How much ethanol have you bought? At over a Dollar/gallon cheaper (than 87 octane-- since E-85 is 105 octane it's a bad comparison anyway), it easily overcomes the 15-20% loss in fuel economy.

Um.. No. There are no Gov't payments or price support on corn. One reason it's cheaper, is because there aren't as many taxes on E-85 as compared to gasoline. (In georgia there is a $.46/gallon tax on gasoline) All of the inputs of E-85 are already taxed, and retaxed, so a larger portion of the cost of E-85 goes to taxes anyway!


Have you forgot about the fact that the leftovers from ethanol production, (distiller's grain) is used for feed anyway!

NO. The price of your groceries have gone up for 2 reasons. Commodities are traded on a WORLD MARKET. The enormously weak American dollar makes everything cost more! When the dollar is weak, the dollar-denominated commodities are regarded as hedges.

Also, have you noticed that the price of fuel has more than TRIPLED in the last few years?!!!!! You know it takes fuel to grow, ship, process, package, and ship the stuff to the store, right? There's your higher food prices. So do you blame ethanol for the HUGE spike in the price of wheat ,cotton, canola, and soybeans too?

I'm so sick of people blaming everything on Ethanol! It's WONDERFUL for the economy. Almost 100% of all costs of the production of ethanol are DOMESTIC. It seems that everybody is against foreign energy independence.

NO. The reason corn is being used, is because the infrastructure is already up and running for corn. Nobody is geared up for switchgrass!!! As far as I know, there isn't even a market for it in the USA.

Look at Brazil. Nuff said.

Don't get me started about corrupt politics. Too many of my friends have died in the stupid war in Iraq, about some terrorists that were from Egypt, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia! We can spend 700 BILLION dollars and 4,000 American lives there, but GOD no; We can't grow our fuel or have health care!

It's a Great thing. Almost every bit of the money spent on E-85 gets turned around back into the country where it gets taxed, and you tell me you'd rather buy oil, and subsidize some rich terrorist group in the middle east?

People are so brainwashed these days by what they hear on TV. Ya know, not everything on TV is true. About 100 yrs ago, everybody told Orville and Wilbur that powered flight was impossible, and look what a little research and some stubborn ambition did for them.

I'm grumpy. I'm going to sleep.

 

$2.89 here in Georgia. Gasoline is still over $4 in most places.

 

In Minnesota for sure, and I believe other states, ethanol production is highly subsidized. If not for gov't subsidies it would cost more than gas.

Its obviously not the only cause, or not even the primary cause. However, corn being shifted to ethanol production has brought the price up. Farmland being shifted to corn has affected other crops. That means feed for livestock and poultry is more expensive. That raises the price of meat, dairy, eggs, etc... Not opinion, fact.


And I'm sick of corrupt politicians shoving a non-viable fuel source down my throat and spending billions in tax money on it.

No, the reason corn is the primary source is because the farm lobby has kept it that way. Why aren't we geared up for switchgrass or other sources? Because there hasn't been funding for it. Why hasn't there been funding for it? Because the farm lobby has kept it that way.

'Nuff said' if you don't have a clue, they don't use corn, they use sugarcane. Also, ethanol production accounted for 18% of Brazilian fuel in 2006, its not like the whole country runs on it. They also have problems with "food vs fuel" and how the industry has affected the country in negative ways.

Totally irrelevant to the discussion. I'll say it again, it is physically impossible to grow enough corn in this country, even if ALL of it were shifted to ethanol production, to make any kind of significant dent in our oil usage. That means we are pissing money down a hole until more efficient base material is focused on.

I'd rather not **** money down a hole and fund gov't subsidies for a non-viable fuel with my tax dollars. Thats not progress, thats foolish. I'm not against ethanol, just corn based ethanol. I want to see other base materials pushed, not corn, then we will have started on a path to help curb foreign oil usage....

 

Never seen e85 forsale

 

That's a temporary situation. It's far from the norm. I'll bet when your gas drops back down to $3.30 or so, E85 will still be sitting at $2.89.

 

I hear they exist, but hard to find. I'm showing there are eight in Ilinois where the price is a $1.00 or more less.

e85 prices IL\

Problem is, all in all, this is just too much work. I don't know if I'll pass by any of these when I need to refill.

 

The avg price of gas is around $3.65 or so. Not sure how you can say most places are over $4.

Also, what do you mean when you say what goes into the production of ethanol (corn) is taxed more than oil? I'd say perhaps oil produced by foreign companies, but we also tax a ton per gallon of gas, something like 15% of the total price. If Exxon produces gas then they get taxed all over the place, not sure how it's any different with ethanol.

 

The price of e85 followed the price of gas as it rose this year, and after July it started to drop along with gas. I'm not sure why the price of e85 would follow the price of gas? That does seem to support Roush's point that e85 is govd subsidized.

Either way, I need to save enough in price to cover the 25% loss in mpg. At $4 25% is $1. Now that the price has dropped $.90 is enough.

Maybe some day I'll have navigation in the truck which will show me where the e85 stations are. That's what I need. You can create your own POIs, I"m sure someone has made a POI for e85 stations.

 

Had to do a little looking for the exact number, E85 is subsidized at $.51 cents per gallon.

According to e85prices.com Minnesota's current avg E85 price is $2.60 and gas is $3.27. Thats more than $.51 difference, but the gas is taxed more heavily, so the cost of the base fuel is higher for E85 before the subsidies and taxes are applied. The price difference in MN is around 25% so its currently enough to cover the mileage drop, but it certainly isn't saving much. If you look at how the price of E85 tracks the price of gas up and down it also goes to show just how corrupt everything is, something that is only 15% gasoline should be affected very little by fluctuations in gas prices, yet the two track together almost perfectly.....

A little bit of looking shows that the sugarcane used in Brazil is up to 8 times more efficient in ethanol production than corn, and yet everything we have pushed at us here is corn based, thats because corn is the super awesome bestest and has nothing to do with political corruption, right chester8420?

Right?

Oh wait, that doesn't seem to make sense.......

Any yet politicians keep telling us how great corn based E85 is?? They only have our very best interests at heart, right?

 

Chester, where the hell have you found e85 in GA?

 

I have not been able to fill up, ever, on E85 because I go no were near the available stations that sell it. I really would like to fill up on it a few times to make my own decision on it.

On a different note, the way that America produces ethanol is not the best way to do it. The best way I have heard is actually a method used to make Biodiesel out of a certain type of algae. The algae is made up of around 50% oil that can just be squeezed out and filtered to be used as fuel for all diesel's. After the organism has been used up and can't be squeezed anymore, they can be fermented into producing ethanol! It truly is a double wammy and has been adopted in Texas, back in April. This is such a better way to produce fuel then using corn because it has a better production yield and doesn't use as much land. It could be stacked into levels to make giant ethanol producing skyscrapers. If America actually adopted this, we could be exporting this stuff to other countries, and be paying so little for it that people from the 50's would think they were getting ripped off back in the day!

http://gas2.org/2008/03/29/first-alg...-april-1-2008/

I first heard of this in my Biology class about a month ago.

 

79.6 million acres of corn planted in 1999.
81 million acres of corn planted in 2004.
87.3 million acres of corn (estimated) planted in 2008

That's hardly a huge shift to corn... a mere 10% increase in corn acres over a 9 year period. And have you noticed the price of fertilizer lately? It has gone through the roof! It is 5X the price it was 2 years ago, and it's the primary expense of most crops. Most of the price increase this year is due to China. They are buying up large ammounts of our domestic fertilizer instead of using their own. Our weak dollar makes our fertilizer very cheap for them. Quit blaming everything on ethanol, IT IS NOT THE PROBLEM!

Well, I'd love to grow switchgrass, but there isn't any money in it. And if McCain gets the president seat (and I think he will), then he will probably not fund research for anything like that. He's against E-85 all together.

Ethanol has over 50% of the GASOLINE MARKET. 18% when you consider all the fuels used (diesel etc)

How many stations do you see using E-10? Almost all of them in Georgia do. That alone is a big dent if you ask me!

With research, I'm sure we can genetically engineer something a crop (corn or otherwise) to be a super producer of starch or sugars. I agree that it is not the best crop to use, but it is available and up until recently, it was very cheap. But as of now, there is not a better crop available.

I know, and it makes me sick!!

You are very cynical. Do you know where and how sugarcane grows? It is a labor intensive crop, and (since it's a tropical plant) it probably wouldn't do good in most parts of the country.... Nobody says it's the best, it's just all we have right now...