351?
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From: Abilene
Ford did make a 351M & 400M engine that had Cleveland 2V heads but it has 429 & 460 bell housing bolt pattern.
If you remove the valve cover on a Cleveland you'll see that the valve train is canted and the Windsor is straight, also the freeze plug's are different so you don't have that big plug like on the Windsor. Also the Cleveland should have the smaller sparkplug's and the exhaust looks like it coming out the bottom of the head and the Windsor looks like more a side exit.
The easy way is just to look at the thermostat housing.
If you remove the valve cover on a Cleveland you'll see that the valve train is canted and the Windsor is straight, also the freeze plug's are different so you don't have that big plug like on the Windsor. Also the Cleveland should have the smaller sparkplug's and the exhaust looks like it coming out the bottom of the head and the Windsor looks like more a side exit.
The easy way is just to look at the thermostat housing.
Last edited by RacingJake; Nov 30, 2007 at 09:17 PM.
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From: western washington
Originally Posted by jethat
I have a 71 mach I with a 351c and while I claim not to be a Cleveland "expert" I know for sure it was manufactured 70-74 and that was all. (except in Australia were it was made until about 82) They came late in 70 and thats why some 70 mustangs have Windsors and the later ones have Cleveland's. There were no 351w's in 71-73 mustangs. It was supposed to replace the 351W but it was a hard motor to get passed the new EPA regulations. Ford can cancelled it in 74. It is however superior to the Windsor.. The 351M 400 is the simular block design as the Cleveland but they had the large block bell housing..
sorry.. you got most right, but they did put many 351W in 71-73 mustangs and torino's. The H code in the VIN number ment you got a 351 with a 2BBL carb. It could be either a W or a C. The Q code was a cobra jet 351C. The M code was a ram air 351C. The only W in a Ford from 1971-about 1987 (when ford put a 4bbl 351W in a truck again.. could be 1987 or later.. I can't remember) was a 2bbl. The only 4BBL 351 from 1971-1973 was a C. Many say the C ended in 1974... I have never seen one in anything newer than 1973. The 351C has the same bell housing and motor mount location as any other small block Ford. The 351M and 400 (no 400M.. and there is no modified or midland.. that is a myth) have big block bellhousing patern and there own motor mount location. The 351C never came in a truck. The FE engines were dominate in trucks until after the 351C was finished. The C was never intended to replace the W... it was a performance engine from the early design stages. But the windsor plant had a hard time keeping up with production and the C was put into service to meet demand. I have had several of these engines and are about my favorite. They are the best looking engine when dressed up too. The W is just ugly IMHO.
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From: Utah
No they did not put any 351w's in 71-73 mustang torino couger ranchero's. H code was 351c-2v f code was 302w. I've looked at hundreds of them and never seen one with a 351w that came that way stock. Now Ford has done some weird stuff so is it possible a FEW 351w's made it in them from the factory? Maybe but officially 351w ended in 70. I have a brother in law who has a 71 H code mustang with a 351c-2v and a couple friends. Mine is a 351c M code. some M codes had the ram air and some did not. the 351c still came in rancheros torinos in 74 I've also heard that it made it into a few LTD's in 74 Your right about everything else... the 351c was the best looking engine to come out of the muscle car era period. It was also the best performing. The fastest non Shelby mustang was the Boss 351 until the modular 4.6 cobra svt came out in the late 90.s.
Edit you may be thinking about 70 when an H code could have been a 2vW or a 2vC
this is my car.
Edit you may be thinking about 70 when an H code could have been a 2vW or a 2vC
this is my car.
Originally Posted by chris1450
sorry.. you got most right, but they did put many 351W in 71-73 mustangs and torino's. The H code in the VIN number ment you got a 351 with a 2BBL carb. It could be either a W or a C. The Q code was a cobra jet 351C. The M code was a ram air 351C. The only W in a Ford from 1971-about 1987 (when ford put a 4bbl 351W in a truck again.. could be 1987 or later.. I can't remember) was a 2bbl. The only 4BBL 351 from 1971-1973 was a C. Many say the C ended in 1974... I have never seen one in anything newer than 1973. The 351C has the same bell housing and motor mount location as any other small block Ford. The 351M and 400 (no 400M.. and there is no modified or midland.. that is a myth) have big block bellhousing patern and there own motor mount location. The 351C never came in a truck. The FE engines were dominate in trucks until after the 351C was finished. The C was never intended to replace the W... it was a performance engine from the early design stages. But the windsor plant had a hard time keeping up with production and the C was put into service to meet demand. I have had several of these engines and are about my favorite. They are the best looking engine when dressed up too. The W is just ugly IMHO.
Last edited by jethat; Dec 1, 2007 at 03:09 PM.
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From: Utah
351c 351M and 400's are the same engine family. Any Cleveland head will fit on a 351m or a 400. All 351m and 400(with an extremely rare exception) were 2v heads the same that came on 351c's a custom manifold is required to put 4v heads on a 351m-400 but it can be done.
Originally Posted by RacingJake
Ford did make a 351M & 400M engine that had Cleveland 2V heads but it has 429 & 460 bell housing bolt pattern.
If you remove the valve cover on a Cleveland you'll see that the valve train is canted and the Windsor is straight, also the freeze plug's are different so you don't have that big plug like on the Windsor. Also the Cleveland should have the smaller sparkplug's and the exhaust looks like it coming out the bottom of the head and the Windsor looks like more a side exit.
The easy way is just to look at the thermostat housing.
If you remove the valve cover on a Cleveland you'll see that the valve train is canted and the Windsor is straight, also the freeze plug's are different so you don't have that big plug like on the Windsor. Also the Cleveland should have the smaller sparkplug's and the exhaust looks like it coming out the bottom of the head and the Windsor looks like more a side exit.
The easy way is just to look at the thermostat housing.
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From: Utah
no 400m. ford has only ever made 1 400. No letter was needed to differentiate it.
Originally Posted by RacingJake
Ford did make a 351M & 400M engine that had Cleveland 2V heads but it has 429 & 460 bell housing bolt pattern.
If you remove the valve cover on a Cleveland you'll see that the valve train is canted and the Windsor is straight, also the freeze plug's are different so you don't have that big plug like on the Windsor. Also the Cleveland should have the smaller sparkplug's and the exhaust looks like it coming out the bottom of the head and the Windsor looks like more a side exit.
The easy way is just to look at the thermostat housing.
If you remove the valve cover on a Cleveland you'll see that the valve train is canted and the Windsor is straight, also the freeze plug's are different so you don't have that big plug like on the Windsor. Also the Cleveland should have the smaller sparkplug's and the exhaust looks like it coming out the bottom of the head and the Windsor looks like more a side exit.
The easy way is just to look at the thermostat housing.
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From: Abilene
The 400M replaced the 400C and is a 400 version of the 351M using the 351 Windsor crankshaft??
Ford only used the “M” designation to distinguish it from the 351 W (Windsor) and the now discontinued 351C (Cleveland). The “M” designation has now become know to mean “modified” or “Michigan”, even though the 351M was produced at both the Cleveland foundry and Michigan casting center.
Just adding some fuel to the fire
Ford only used the “M” designation to distinguish it from the 351 W (Windsor) and the now discontinued 351C (Cleveland). The “M” designation has now become know to mean “modified” or “Michigan”, even though the 351M was produced at both the Cleveland foundry and Michigan casting center.
Just adding some fuel to the fire
Last edited by RacingJake; Dec 1, 2007 at 11:00 AM.
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From: Utah
Nope. 1 400 thats all. surely you could prove there was more than one? A link to a part # or something? I already know you cant do it because there aint one.
Originally Posted by RacingJake
The 400M replaced the 400C and is a 400 version of the 351M using the 351 Windsor crankshaft??
Ford only used the “M” designation to distinguish it from the 351 W (Windsor) and the now discontinued 351C (Cleveland). The “M” designation has now become know to mean “modified” or “Michigan”, even though the 351M was produced at both the Cleveland foundry and Michigan casting center.
Just adding some fuel to the fire
Ford only used the “M” designation to distinguish it from the 351 W (Windsor) and the now discontinued 351C (Cleveland). The “M” designation has now become know to mean “modified” or “Michigan”, even though the 351M was produced at both the Cleveland foundry and Michigan casting center.
Just adding some fuel to the fire
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From: western washington
sorry jethat... the 351W was the main engine in the H code cars. A 351C 2bbl could be there, but most where 351W in the cougar, mustang, and torinos. Maybe in your area you got more C's than W's... but nation wide W's were the most common H code engine. I have owned several H code cars. All had the 351W in it. I have only seen one or two with the C in it.
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From: Utah
No I'm not wrong. Here is a link that proves it..
some cut-n-paste..
The Mach 1 entered 1972 virtually unchanged except for options and some minor trim changes. For 1972, the "MUSTANG" block letters on the deck lid were replaced with "Mustang" in script, which is the only way you can tell a '72 Mach 1 from a '71 without looking at the serial number. Engine options decreased sharply for '72, limited to a base 302-2V, a 351C-2V, a 351C-4V Cobra Jet, and a low-compression Boss 351 called the 351C High Output. Gone was the 429 Cobra Jet big-block. The 351C High Output engine in a '72 Mach 1 is rare indeed, sporting that elusive "R" engine code enthusiasts are always seeking. This engine was nothing more than a Boss 351 solid-lifter engine with a lower compression ratio, netting 275 horsepower at the drive wheels. Nineteen seventy-two would be the last year for a brute high-performance V-8 in the Mach 1.
The writing was on the wall for high-performance Mustangs by 1973. Ford brought the Mach 1 back for '73 with nice styling upgrades, an array of new colors, and the retention of three V-8 engines: the 302-2V, the 351C-2V, and the 351C-4V Cobra Jet. What you may find ironic is the availability of Ram Air with the 351C-2V but not the 351C-4V Cobra Jet. This was rooted in the emissions-certification issues Ford had wi
Here's the link..
http://www.mustangandfords.com/thehi...h_1/index.html
Your turn. Prove ANY 351w's came in 71-73's
some cut-n-paste..
The Mach 1 entered 1972 virtually unchanged except for options and some minor trim changes. For 1972, the "MUSTANG" block letters on the deck lid were replaced with "Mustang" in script, which is the only way you can tell a '72 Mach 1 from a '71 without looking at the serial number. Engine options decreased sharply for '72, limited to a base 302-2V, a 351C-2V, a 351C-4V Cobra Jet, and a low-compression Boss 351 called the 351C High Output. Gone was the 429 Cobra Jet big-block. The 351C High Output engine in a '72 Mach 1 is rare indeed, sporting that elusive "R" engine code enthusiasts are always seeking. This engine was nothing more than a Boss 351 solid-lifter engine with a lower compression ratio, netting 275 horsepower at the drive wheels. Nineteen seventy-two would be the last year for a brute high-performance V-8 in the Mach 1.
The writing was on the wall for high-performance Mustangs by 1973. Ford brought the Mach 1 back for '73 with nice styling upgrades, an array of new colors, and the retention of three V-8 engines: the 302-2V, the 351C-2V, and the 351C-4V Cobra Jet. What you may find ironic is the availability of Ram Air with the 351C-2V but not the 351C-4V Cobra Jet. This was rooted in the emissions-certification issues Ford had wi
Here's the link..
http://www.mustangandfords.com/thehi...h_1/index.html
Your turn. Prove ANY 351w's came in 71-73's
Originally Posted by chris1450
sorry jethat... the 351W was the main engine in the H code cars. A 351C 2bbl could be there, but most where 351W in the cougar, mustang, and torinos. Maybe in your area you got more C's than W's... but nation wide W's were the most common H code engine. I have owned several H code cars. All had the 351W in it. I have only seen one or two with the C in it.
Last edited by jethat; Dec 1, 2007 at 06:40 PM.
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From: Abilene
There was a time when I was going to to put Cleveland heads on my 302 but instead I just bought some Vic Jr heads. It would of been a nice project to do getting the mod to work. Hardest job would of been the manifold mod.
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From: western washington
Originally Posted by jethat
No I'm not wrong. Here is a link that proves it..
some cut-n-paste..
The Mach 1 entered 1972 virtually unchanged except for options and some minor trim changes. For 1972, the "MUSTANG" block letters on the deck lid were replaced with "Mustang" in script, which is the only way you can tell a '72 Mach 1 from a '71 without looking at the serial number. Engine options decreased sharply for '72, limited to a base 302-2V, a 351C-2V, a 351C-4V Cobra Jet, and a low-compression Boss 351 called the 351C High Output. Gone was the 429 Cobra Jet big-block. The 351C High Output engine in a '72 Mach 1 is rare indeed, sporting that elusive "R" engine code enthusiasts are always seeking. This engine was nothing more than a Boss 351 solid-lifter engine with a lower compression ratio, netting 275 horsepower at the drive wheels. Nineteen seventy-two would be the last year for a brute high-performance V-8 in the Mach 1.
The writing was on the wall for high-performance Mustangs by 1973. Ford brought the Mach 1 back for '73 with nice styling upgrades, an array of new colors, and the retention of three V-8 engines: the 302-2V, the 351C-2V, and the 351C-4V Cobra Jet. What you may find ironic is the availability of Ram Air with the 351C-2V but not the 351C-4V Cobra Jet. This was rooted in the emissions-certification issues Ford had wi
Here's the link..
http://www.mustangandfords.com/thehi...h_1/index.html
Your turn. Prove ANY 351w's came in 71-73's
some cut-n-paste..
The Mach 1 entered 1972 virtually unchanged except for options and some minor trim changes. For 1972, the "MUSTANG" block letters on the deck lid were replaced with "Mustang" in script, which is the only way you can tell a '72 Mach 1 from a '71 without looking at the serial number. Engine options decreased sharply for '72, limited to a base 302-2V, a 351C-2V, a 351C-4V Cobra Jet, and a low-compression Boss 351 called the 351C High Output. Gone was the 429 Cobra Jet big-block. The 351C High Output engine in a '72 Mach 1 is rare indeed, sporting that elusive "R" engine code enthusiasts are always seeking. This engine was nothing more than a Boss 351 solid-lifter engine with a lower compression ratio, netting 275 horsepower at the drive wheels. Nineteen seventy-two would be the last year for a brute high-performance V-8 in the Mach 1.
The writing was on the wall for high-performance Mustangs by 1973. Ford brought the Mach 1 back for '73 with nice styling upgrades, an array of new colors, and the retention of three V-8 engines: the 302-2V, the 351C-2V, and the 351C-4V Cobra Jet. What you may find ironic is the availability of Ram Air with the 351C-2V but not the 351C-4V Cobra Jet. This was rooted in the emissions-certification issues Ford had wi
Here's the link..
http://www.mustangandfords.com/thehi...h_1/index.html
Your turn. Prove ANY 351w's came in 71-73's
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From: Utah
I don't see the link. 302 Windsors did come in 71-73's but no 351's..
Originally Posted by chris1450
Here is a link. scroll down to 1972 and 1973. they list both the windsor and clevland engines for the torinos
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From: western washington
oops... forgot to post the link. scroll down to 1972 and 1973 and it shows that torinos had either the 351W or C as a 2bbl.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Torino
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Torino