Can you please get me links to any pertinent info? I can't see where they can mandate no 87 octane - but I CAN see where they can mandate E10. They have had 87 octane E10 around Chicago for over 15 years.

 

I've just been hearing about it through my wife and everyone she works with complaining about it, and listening to my wife each night telling me her day and how she is getting cussed out from the station owners for not being able to get them the 87 competitvely and of course the increasing prices across the board on all the fuels and oils tehy distribute each day.

Quick search and found this, appears to be an ethanol mandate....

http://www.mpca.org/newsletters/2007/103107.htm

I'll have her ask around tomarrow and If thats not what they are talking about I'll let you know. Becasue thats not the way that the plant manager explained it to me while we were outside smoking last month.
He said point blank we (meaning him and I) won't beable to get our 87 anymore. He drives a Chevy or a Jeep or a Motorcycle all of them have the same issues I have with 92.

 

Surprisingly as rusted as my manifolds were , the bolts all came out easy - once I had it jacked up and the inner fender removed - I had both manifolds off in about 20 minutes - My flange bolts were rusted down to a pencil lead thickness before they finally broke

Before even attempting fixing yours , I would look at the exhaust to manifold flange bolts . If they looked badly rusted ,there going to break off in the manifold, once they do that - it's a PITA to drill them out.

If it were me, I would order new manifolds since there only $27 a piece on ebay (ebay store) before taking on that project - You'll need Felpro Gaskets, New Flange Bolts and New studs (Stainless)

I've heard that some have a hard time with the manifold - head bolts , but I haven't on my 98..

 

If they say they can only get 92, the oil companies are yanking everyone's chain. Dumping 10% ethanol in 87 only results in 89 to 90 octane. I would think the oil companies would love to refine the base gas to 85 octane then add the mandated ethanol to get 87 out of the mix - the lower the octane, the cheaper it is to refine it.

Are you telling me that the 87 octane E-10 I'm buying now at Walmart is really 92? My truck runs great on it, no matter what it is.

What do you think the 89 at Casey's is? It's 87 gas with ethanol added and it's a dime CHEAPER than their pure 87.

 

It looks like on mine I'd have to take a motor mount off and jack the side of the engine up to get the passenger side out.
Does it slide out some where I didn't see?
I didnt look in the front.....

 

Yea but octane is cheaper than heptane
The higher the octane the less heptane (or equivelant chemical) so higher octane is cheaper gas.
Thats why "No E" Super and Premium are $.10 a gallon less than Regular.

I dont know what Casey's does, I don't buy there.
I get mine straight from the vendor 90% of the time, it saves me middle man and less chance for tank contamination by eleminating time in 2 tanks. During transportaion to the station and the sations tanks. So far they have resisted producing "E" until now.
If I find myself needing it else where, then I call my wife to get a location of a DC or atleast a vendor where ever I'm at.

 

Pss, I think your confused about Octane.
Octane is the resistance to knock by the total additive package or of the peticular fuel.
While Heptane is a part of the total package, it's not proportinal or inversely proportional to Octane.
There are many fuels that have inherently high Octane ratings without any Heptane.
For example;
Methonal is a wood alcohol, has no additives and is rated in the 116 to 118 octane range.
Gasolines 'can be' formulated to nearly as high.

I hate to say this but you people in the midwest have poor state goverment actions driven by special interest that may indeed try to force people into very difficult situations for there gains.
We all have those kinds of actions to one degree or another but when they take away what you need to function; it's going to far.
If you sit and let it go, you all deserve it.

 

Octanes resitance to knock "kinda sorta", is due to the resistance it gives the igniting fuels to igniting under pressure, if it wasnt there then all engines would work like a disel engine. Thats where you get the knock, it's actually the engine dieseling. Otherwise wouldn't need a spark plug, becasue it would ignite from the pressure. How ever the unstableness of those fuels such as methanol or other alcohols, heptane, propane, butane or kerosene or any other liquid combustable fuel in that heat range. Is that igniting under pressure is not percise. It may ignite at 90 psi one time and 110psi the next with curent engine designs and technology. We are not able to metter the fuels fine enough to get proper timing. Since we can't then Octane or equivelent must be added to prevent it from igniting until sparked.

The reason you can get above 100% rateing is simple. 100 + rating is Aviation grade. In the case of AvGas, 100 is the gasoline's performance rating, not the percentage of actual octane in the gas. The addition of TEL boosts the compression level of the gasoline -- it doesn't add more octane.

But in road gas it is the percentage of octane "or equivelent" to heptane "or equivelent.
Not everyone uses Octane anymore nor do they even use heptane anymore. There are about a dozen of each chemecila with the same properties each refinery chooses to use. Probably what ever they can get the best deal on if I was guessing but procedures may also determine which one is used too. At that level I am not as educated.

 

Look it up, in reference to a spark ICE.
No kinda sorta about it.

 

I understand that Missouri has an ethanol initiative scheduled to take place sometime in the near future, forcing a certain percentage of the average gasoline fuel consumption to be ethanol.

My concern is the supposed use of octane ratings to encourage this as an apparent back-door measure. Again, not totally up to speed on the logistics of what all is happening, but it doesn't sound good at first blush.

I understand the octane ratings to be the guaranteed minimum for the fuel - 87 for regular, etc. There is no maximum that I am aware of, although it would be in the suppliers' best financial interest to keep the actual value as close to the minimum as possible. So, I don't think that selling 92 octane fuel from an 87 pump is illegal.

At any rate, octane is the currently accepted measure towards prevention of detonation in gasoline engines - however the numbers are obtained. I think cetane is the measure used for diesels - another variant on the hydrocarbon fuels.

Basically, it appears that ethanol can generally promise higher performance at a cost of lower economy. I'm out of the hot-rod, lead-foot, burn-rubber days, give me the fuel that the manufacturer spec'd out for best overall operation.

 

The octane rating as others have said only applies to the fuels ability to resist detonation. Ethanol has much less energy or BTU's than gasoline. For that reason fuel consumption goes up with ethanol. Theoretically it is good for performance use but you have to use significantly more of it than the same amount of gasoline with the same octane rating. The whole ethanol idea is a bad one. We shouldnt be making the energy sector compete with the food sector.

 

A 4six might be more difficult because the block isn't as tall. The 5.4L - I swiveled over the frame rail and then swiveled back up. I was able to get most , if not all of the manifold to head bolts out with a Bosch cordless impact

Pulled the manifold right thru the wheel well - Hell , When I installed the header on the passenger side , I just removed the starter and the AC bracket - she slid right into place.. Once you remove the plastic inner fender well it become self explanatory- it's not bad at all IMO..

The passenger side of the 4six motor is a different story. The manifold in relation to the frame rail is a delima - there to freakin close ..That's also why it's hard to find headers for that motor.

Why am I talking about headers ?? Oh well, I hope I helped in some way

 

Kinda sorta meaning not in the way most think it does.

I know you know but for everyone else.

Yes physically adding octane "removing heptane" will prevent premature detenation, when it exist 100% of the time. So will adding water.......... but I digress.
If a vehicle calls for 87 and knocks on it, so needs 92+..... If it hasn't been mechanically modified for more commpression...... that premature detenation "spark knock" is either from from hot spots in a cylinder(s), or retarded timing. Not from compression of the fuel. Fixing Hot spots and retarded timing are not the intended use for adding octane "removing heptane". Adding octane "removing heptane" will cause more damage 100% of the time in those cases.

 

Your talking headers becasue thats now where I need help.
You may have helped alot and saved me some cash and having to listen to that embarrasing annoying tick anymroe.
I'll go look tomarrow and I may tackle it tomarow as well.

I do have the 5.4.

It sure didnt look that easy when I first looked at it, but I was laying down changing teh oil while taking a break from fighting and slightly aggrevated with removing the COP on the #5 cylinder. Eventually just grabbed hold of the COP and ripped it out with my bear hands, removed the bolt with vise grips and went and bought a new bolt and COP. LOL
It came out and I got the plug changed, by gosh!!!!! LOL
But i didnt think about going out the side with it. I was trying to figure out a path out the bottom. :o

ETA:
I was going to tackle the drivers side and maybe passenger side door lock actuators tomarrow.
Wonder whats the chances of getting the manifold and locks fixed.....

 

Cop 5 is right up front - that should of been easy - I think it's a 7mm bolt .. Yea , when there stripped it slows things down a bit

My door locks quit working once . Couldn't figure it out , they both quit working at the same time .. A week or two went by and I worked on something else under the hood and had to reboot the computer after .

Well , The Power windows have been working great since .. - The computer was just buggy

Sometimes just zapping the parameters (PRAM) will straighten her up..

If you want to TEMP fix your manifold - High heat Gold W/Copper , made by Permatex will seal between the manifold and head . It has a 700 degree rating and your only @ 250 - 300 degrees in that area. It only 5 bucks and that chit is awesome..

Good Luck