I"m in the process of adding a vortech. I ordered the Walbro pump today but next on the list is injectors. I'm having trouble figuring out what is compatible. I would like to find a good set of used injectors but don't know what will fit? How do I know what is compatible with my 2002 5.4? There are a lot of used general ford/mustang injectors out there? Will these work? What is different? The height and the plug style or something? Any suggestions on where to find a good used set?

 

Here is some info you will need to think about.
For injector info go the Flatlander Racing website and to their fuel injector applications section.
Read it and understand first before sizing injectors.
Next, what method of fuel control will you be using? PCM program modifications or an FMU control unit? The injector size used is dependent on which you will use.
If the reprogram method, the air meter may have to be changed as well as going to large injector sizing.
With the FMU method the injectors size won't need to be as large.
In either case, to get the most and be safe, a tune should be done by a shop that knows what trucks can accept for tune and not just cars due to the big weight difference.
ACCEL injectors have them in small steps so as not to over or under fuel the application providing the 'home-work' is done correctly.
A mistake here means blown head gaskets and other damage possible.
Don't take this to lightly and good luck..

 

Bluegrass,
I have seen that site but can't find any application info on it..... Thought I had seen it before but now I don't see it. Was it on another site?

I'm trying my best to figure out the fuel issue. I want to make sure I get this stuff right. I"m not quite sure which way I want to manage the fuel. I'm not sure about how the two differ. The one thing I'm not familiar with is the fuel system and how the computer or FMU control it. I will definitely be adding a new mass air meter with the injectors. I just have to figure out what size.

What are the pros and cons of the FMU versus PCM program changes? I want what works best, don't mind spending a little extra money rather than skimping. My only problem is no one locally that I know of has experience with this stuff.

 

u should have the EV1 style injectors which are the most common ive got a set of 24lb injectors and a MAF but those are good for about 380fwhp. so id recomend atleast 30lb injectors.

 

Let me try to get you started on all this.
To fully understand, injection needs to be sized for the realistic max expected power level.
Under full PCM control, the injectors will operates at their normal system fuel pressure but be sized and have a fuel pump that will supply the volume to feed the expected power level.
What this means, said another way is, 19 lb injectors will support a max power level of about 264 hp under supercharge conditions and at standard fuel pressures of 40 psi.
Going to 24 lb injectors under the same condition should support 335 hp.
This data is found either by calculation or from tables.
Note injection is PCM driven with high volume fuel system behind it.

Second example using Fuel Manegment forcing injection to flow more fuel.
The same 19lb injectors driven by an FMU will feed about 325hp at an operating fuel pressure of 60 psi the FMU causes the fuel system to rise to.
This system also must have a fuel pump that will supply the fuel volume to feed the power level at elevated 60 psi pressure level. A note on this is the fuel pump cannot be endlessly be raised to feed more power because the pressure to volume is an inverse function. As soon as the two cross over, the pump is at max for feeding the motor. In addition, an injector has a limit of flow.
Increasing the injector size to 24 lb requires the fuel pump capacity to be raised in order to feed a max power level, even with an FMU.

The aboves are at max running system levels and does not include much safety margin before beginnning to lean out at top end.
Usually sizing for 15% safety is enough. This comes from the BSFC number that is given in the calculations for the intended application.
BSFC of .45 is more for a N/A while .55 to.65 is more for supercharging application.

I hope this begins to give you some insight because entering into these applications without, can cause a lot of hassle with the motor if all is not in balance and understood.
When supercharging, fuel octane must go to the max available and ignition timing adjusted accordingly, On your engine you have no control unless a tuner is used with a program installed.
Fuel under raised combustion pressures, speeds combustion as though it's octane were less than what it is, hence the need to use higher octane to counter this effect.

I would enlist the use of an engineered kit with all the parts sized. This takes away all the engineering you have to learn and allows a safe tune level with reliable results when installed per instruction.

On the above examples, there are a lot of things left out.
On an PCM based operation, you need a SCT tuner and a program custom written for your application. This accounts for boost level, injector sizeing, air meter calibration, fuel pump sizing, ignition timing curve etc.
On an FMU based system, the fuel pump, injector sizing, the FMU to boost ratio set in the unit, timing curve (still by tuner) etc.
All the above is not set in stone but an intent to get you to see most all that is involved.
BTW, I installed and have been running a Kenne Bell on a 5L for 4 years.
Collected the parts that was in an engineered kit, a few pieces at a time, learned all the supercharging science needed as applied to my motor and it turned out to be a success on Speed Density engine control.
Good luck.

 

Bluegrass,
I really appreciate all of your help, I'm trying to figure this all out. I may have to run the 19lb injectors and the FMU for a little while but the big plan is to get the mass air meter and the new injectors with a custom tune.
Where are you getting the injector data from? I couldn't find it on the site you mentioned. I would like to try to do the calcuations. I'm not sure what the guestimate would be for power with all my planned modifications.
Dynatech headers, magnaflow exhaust, Vortech, bigger injectors(as needed), mass air meter, and 75mm throttle body.

 

What type of blower, centrifigal or positive displacement?
How much boost?
A rule of thumb is about 18 hp per 1psi boost. If you run 6 psi, that would be about 100 hp +/-.
From that point you begin to figure injector flow rating for whichever method you will use to control fuel as well as the pump capacity needed.
Headers and air meter power add guess might add another 20 hp or so.
With these estimated figures, your 5.4 rating at a conservitive 220 hp + 100 + 20 = about 320 hp.
If useing FMU fuel control, I would be looking at 21 to 24 lb injectors as a min.
A positive displacement blower will begin to make boost low in the 1800 rpm range. This means the FMU will begin to raise fuel pressure on the injectors very early in the rpm band. the FMU boost to pressure ratio would be in the 10 to 1 range. That means that for every 1 psi boost, the fuel pressure rises 10 psi in order to force feed the motor down low.
If a centrifigal blower were used, the FMU ratio would be lower in the 6 to 1 range because the blower boost comes on later in the 3000 rpm range +/- depending on the drive pully ratios so fuel does not need to come in so early.
With all this, the PCM also is changing the injector duty cycle as it normally does.

For fuel pump capacity, here is some rules that will keep you close for capacity.
24 lb injectors will need at least 115 ltr/hr at 40 psi for 380 hp.
30 lb injectors will need 144 ltr/hr .
That's about as much as you should need to start with.
Caution; do not just go bigger on injector size "for the future". It's a mistake many make, then they wonder why they cannot get the motor tuned with so much fuel being dumped in.
Injectors donot meter fuel very well in a controlled manner at injector pulsewidths much under about 5% , nor are they able to closeup quickly and reliably under very high fuel pressure so should be ideally operated within a 10 to 80 or 90% pulsewidth rule.
Take the time to study this long enough to understand all the relationships that exist.
Another fuel injection site you may find useful is www.rceng.com/technical.htm

 

wow i wanted to do a small upgrade on my injectors but this is too confusing to kno what i can and cant do... thanks for the info on all this

 

Thanks for that link, that was exactly what I needed. I think I can calculate everything and at least get in the right neighborhood to begin with.
Its a vortech supercharger I'm adding so I'm guessing 6-8psi. To begin with I"ll be using the FMU but that won't last long, just until I get time to install the headers and exhaust and get it to a tuner. Then I'll make the PCM changes and ditch the FMU. I already have the Walbro 255lph pump so I hope fuel pressure will not be problem, shouldn't be according to what I have calculated.
I'm gona guess at 350-375 hp range, which according to the calculator, puts me in the 30-32 or maybe a 36lb injector range if I get a little more HP than planned.
Thanks for taking the time to help me with this, I was more worried about this part of the mod than anything. I don't want to damage the motor or waste money by guessing wrong the first few times around.
The one thing I am struggling with, I find plenty of injectors, but no one really lists what they will work on or the application. Faster150 said EV1 but most of what I see just says Ford or either for a mustang? Will these all work if the connectors are the same? How can I tell if they work or not? THe plan was to find a set off of Ebay, probably a used set from a Mustang guy if they will work.

 

the EV1 is rectangular connector and the EV6 is kind of half oval half square and yes injectors off a mustang will work.

 

As long as I get the one's with the right connectors, everything else should work out fine? So sticking with the Ford Racing injectors everything should be pretty interchangeable as long as the connectors are correct? The reason I ask about mustang injectors is because there are a ton of used one's out there and I'd like to find a cheap set of those that are barely used.

So something like this should work?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/musta...spagenameZWDVW

Could one of these adapters be used if necessary?
https://www.casperselectronics.com/M..._Code=newitems

 

yes those injectors will work thats what i am running. and no u dont need the adapter for them

 

ANyone have any experience with Rochester injectors? From what I read they have a very good spray pattern.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ROCHE...ayphotohosting

 

i wouldnt get those. rochesters are usually a single pintal hole very inefficient spray pattern go with bosch style 4 port injectors.

 

Faster150
How can you tell which ones will work and which one's won't? Is there an application list somewhere or something? I see a lot of different kinds but no way to tell what the difference is. I'm sticking with either the Bosch or the Ford Racing but I still have no idea what will work. Is it the height or the type or all of the above?

How about these? Won't buy them from here-just a reference for the picture.

http://www.racetronix.com/0280150967.html