I've even had problems with Bosch and Autolites on the ole windsors. Motorcraft in everything for me.

Adrianspeeder

 

Mode 6 showed no misfire counts on any cylinders. I could monitor power balance and see cylinders at random dropping out; the way it was acting, I thought I had one or more coils breaking down, dumping RF interference and causing other good coils to act weird as well. I stress tested all the coils and they all passed.

I wouldn't recommend Bosch plugs to anyone except if they're used in an OEM application.

 

I hadn't forgot about ya, and I'm glad that you got your truck squared away.

Now if I can fix the other problem children I'm dealing with, I'll be getting somewhere...

 

The data streams I took while the engine was missing and done over several weeks, showed the effects of the missing in the printouts of battery traces, the ECT traces and the IAC traces.
Looking at the system drawings suggested to me how this would propagate to other parts of the system including the transmission control.
There would be times that a violent miss would occurr as if the ignition was totally cut off for an instant but the truck never left me down at any time.
I did see at times some DTC and HEX codes that seem to be unrelated to the problem so feel they were falsely triggered by this situation as they did not repeat very often.

EDGE USE:
I learned to interpet the conditions that cause the EGR to open during light load cruising. (EGR routine in the PCM).
The monitor display has to be set up to see spark advance, and instant fuel milege. What you see is a point off idle that just keeps enough power to run the truck at cruise. The spark advance will go into the 30°+ range and the fuel will be cut showing instant mileage in the 30s.
If you try to keep these numbers near maxed, the mpg should be also maximized.
Using this method, I got a best reading of average mpg up the 18.6.
But this is the average for the run time and changes from road loading, speed changes and not your final gas mileage per tank filling because of stop and go and time in lower gears will affect the final gas mileage at fill up. But it's pretty close to still being right overall. The average readings can't be reset at fill up so is one reason it is not quite the same as the tank fill method of figuring actual fuel mileage.
The only way to reset (unless i missed it) is hooking up to your PC and reading parameters that might be set or just running thru them . When it's reconnected to the truck port everything is zeroed out. The data stream stored remaind until over-written with a new request.
*******************
Day two and still no more missing.

 

I see all the bad raps on bosch plugs. I just put in Bosch Plat +4's. I have my intake off right now while I'm changing out the intake gaskets. Do I need to take them out? It would be real easy to do that now.

 

They seem to be very hit and miss. Either they work great, or they don't work at all. The best chance of success comes with Motorcraft plugs.

 

I've used NGK plugs for years in pretty much all of my small-engine applications, including my sea-doo and snowmobile, never any misfire issues or fouling problems. My riding mower was having a ton of misfire issues, changing the age-old air filter helped, but didn't fix the problem. I replaced the Champion plugs with an old pair out of my sled, and that did the trick. They were a slightly cooler heat range, which also seemed to help it's tendendcy to overheat on hot days.

I used Bosch plugs in my dune buggy, mainly because they were the only ones the auto store had for a '71 Beetle motor. Never really had a problem with them, but it did have "random hard starts", like every so often it just did NOT want to start. It would get going, and then be fine for a while. No rhyme or reason to it, never figured out why.

I think Denso plugs suck, the one time I used them they almost immediatly fouled up, despite the guy at autozone claiming they were "the exact same plug as NGK with a different name". Engine lost about 500 RPM off WOT, and didn't have the pep I'm used to. Switched back to NGK, no problems at all.

I noticed that pretty much all of the "consumable" items under my hood are AC Delco. The battery is, the plug wires are(leading me to belive the plugs have been replaced within the 91k on it, and a few other things. It runs fine, always fires right up and has no misfiring at all.

Also, anyone know if those "multi point" plugs(such as the Platinum +4 or Splitfires) are really any better? I was thinking about trying some in my sled this winter, but I've also never had any problems with the plain old 9's that every sled on the planet uses, and also cost about a buck each instead of 6 or 7? Worth it?

 

Ya all should not get carried away about plugs makes.
It's a lot like the debate over oil grades and types.

Quintin and I apparently had the same type failure but with different plugs and for different reasons , I'm sure.
These mod engine are very exotic in how they develope, control and detect missfires.
The fact that they are designed this way brings with it the propensity for failure more often because the monitoring is so sensitive to detection that it often upsets the outcome for firing the cylinders.
Reason; the quest for ever tighter emmission standards by trying to monitor so tightly that sometime the system gives itself a hard time, ( intermittants) at times with no codes to support the problem.
Ever hear of a code that 'directly' tells you the plugs are bad?

 

Investigation report on plug analysis for Motorcraft type AGSF32PM causing intermittant missing condition without DTC code support.

1. The ground straps develope an electrically insulating coating except in the the spark jump area at the tip of the ground strap.
2. The ground strap spark jump areas creaters to a noticable degree.
3. The platinum tip burns down close to it's shell. This shell is non condictive.
4. The resistance of the center conductor is measured at approx 6000 ohms average over 8 plugs.

So far this is leading me to the following.
a. Ground strap creater errosion plus the tip burn down, opens the effective gap distance by a considerable amount.
b. The 6000 ohm center conductor resistance is high compaired to original plug type AWSF32PM that has an average resistance of only 1500 ohms.
Note that Ford superseded AWSF32PM with AGSF32PM.
My AWFS original plugs were replaced with AGSF for maintaince purposes and not for a fault condition. This is how I got into this problem.
One might begin to draw conclusions that the resistance is to high on the factory supersede plug for these engines, as well as the long term center platiumn tip is not to hardy as well as the ground strap since they both erroded in about 15000 miles or less.
Are we back to maintaince intervals like the older motors?
Next I will be working on seeing if a change of gas brand will make a difference over a long term. The gas I have been running gives good fuel mileage but is known to have at least 16 additives in it's package.

Question is does these extensive additives contribute to shortening plug life as well as the plug design now reccomended, adding to the total of the problem.
I am peticuarly concerned about the high resistance causing interference and causing the PCM to 'fit' and not be able to decide on what the problem is and so sets no code for a missing problem of this type.
Note that none of this is intended to be applicable to an identifiable coil failure, boot failure or a specific plug failure that usually sets a code.
I know they are quite expensive but the DENSO IT16 plugs may be a better answer to these problems in the future or just going back to a set of AWSF32 PM plugs if I can find them.
I will update as this chase continues. The factory doesn't always have all the right answers all the time.

 

MOTORCRAFT = AUTOLIGHT SAME PLUG SAME MANUFATURERE!

they are both made by autolight, which has been the oem supplier for ford as motorcraft for more than 30 years!
i have to call bs on this one.

 

again you are wrong! motorcraft and autolight are the SAME PLUG!!

autolight also makes FRAM



Since its inception, Autolite has guaranteed aftermarket and Original Equipment customers worldwide the highest quality products for high performance sparkplugs and sparkplug wires. The Autolite team manufactures Autolite® branded spark plugs and ignition wire sets, and provides plugs to leading Original Equipment Manufacturers like Ford Motor Company and General Motors.

Among its wide range of spark plugs for automotive and small engine applications, Autolite is known for its Double Platinum spark plugs. These plugs are up to 30 percent more durable than the average of leading competitors and provide optimal performance longer than a standard spark plug.

Autolite has been the Official Spark Plug of NASCAR® since April 2000; and now serves as a sponsor to National Hot Rod Association's Top Fuel racecar driver John "Bodie" Smith. This year, the brand is launching a $2.5 million advertising campaign to target the do-it-yourselfer.

 

p.s. i have been to the sutolite factory on a tour and they box motorcraft off their same lines, also back in the 70's 80's and 90's when my dad was a ford engineer he said they made the BEST oil filter of the day! then they had farmed the motorcraft oil filter to be made by Purolator, my dad said at first they had a LOT of problems but he says that has been resolved ( it dosent matter but my dad is 64 im 39 ) he has worked at ford for MANY years!

 

IIRC - when I changed my plugs (using Autolites) the boxes indicated Autolites were mfr'd by Honeywell - which also makes Fram, which in turn, gets bashed about in here quite a bit.

...just sayin'

as for my Autolites- no troubles whatsoever so far...

 

Personaly I stay away from Fram & Autolites because they both SUCK- they do not = Motorcraft products , they may make them, but only to Fords higher standards in order to get a contract with them is my guess , but Autolites to me, are far from being of the same calibor and why would they fricken call them Motorcrafts if they were Autolites, or there equal - that's f'ed up!! It really doesn't matter , you can run them if you like, I COULDN'T - It's a junk plug in my mind . I went by the book with an installation of these plugs on my 98 and they did not work. That's what happen, what can I say, they reacted different than the Motorcrafts in adverse ways. You guy's can have them. I'll stick with what Ford uses in there motors. I believe there a little more knowlegable when it comes to there own builds.

 

"WHAT FORD USES IN THERE OWN BUILDS " AUTOLITE! AND AS FOR THEM BEING " BUILT TO FORDS HIGHER STANDARDS OH YEA WE ALL KNOW THERE HIGHER STANDARDS! AND THEY ARE TESTED TO THOSE STANDARDS NO MANUFACTURED TO THEM ! YOUR A ENGINEER? HOW LONG A FEW MONTHS?

ha ha ha ha ROFLMAO it is gut busting funny "MOTORCRAFT DOSENT = AUTOLITE
listen i HAVE BEEN to the plant and watched them made they are the same and they are TESTED to ford specs and in some cases DESIGNED to ford specs but they are the IDENTICAL plug your truck came with!
say what you want, the reason motorcraft is a ford line of products is income generation!

heres some info
in 1973 autolite was purchased by bendix
i
n 1976 autolite produced the first suppressor spark plug

in 1983 The Allied Corporation acquired Bendix. In the 1983 merger, the three brand names FRAM, Bendix, and Autolite became part of Allied Automotive, one of the five business sectors of Allied Corporation.

in 1987 Autolite produces first Platinum Spark Plug for Ford O.E.

in 1989 Autolite produces Six Billionth Spark Plug.

in 2002 Autolite produces Nine Billionth spark plug.

in 2003 Autolite produces first High Thread Spark Plug for Ford Triton Engine with 3 valve design - released O.E. in 2004.


The birth of Autolite® began in 1911 when two small companies started producing buggy lamps, and became a thriving automotive parts manufacturer by the 1930s. But its history as a spark plug manufacturer began in 1935 when Royce G. Martin, President of the Electric Autolite Company, equipped and staffed a lab to develop the first Autolite spark plug. Leading the project was Robert Twells, a ceramic engineer, who eagerly researched current patents and ceramic insulator technology. With a handful of new draftsman and staff members, it only took a few months before the Electric Autolite Company had a spark plug available for distribution. Autolite had instant success, as the brand supplied spark plugs and other ignition parts to well-known automotive leaders including Chrysler, Studebaker, Packard and ******