Its amazing what you can find on the internet, 1.5million or so

http://www.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/02/10/021472U.pdf#search='amsoil%20paid%20claims'

 

You don't have to look at many of my posts to know that I don't advocate synthetics for the average driver- they are not cost effective and a waste of money. For the commercial industry, they can and are money savers by limiting the down time for maintenance What you won't read in this court document are the behind the scenes negotiations. For all we know, Amsoil may have willingly agreed to replace the units but admitted no fault due to their product. It happens in industry every day. It can insure future business by being the "'scape goat" occasionally- it gets folks out of a bind that may cost them their job/position/etc. Amsoil may have agreed to the replacement and was banking on their insurer to cover the damages, thereby- everybody wins except the insurance company. Considering that the insurance companies were also in suit positions in this court document, that's probably what happened. For 48 units to be affected, there would be various run numbers of product involved. While one run may not necessarily be in spec, others surely would be. Amsoils' folks are not a bunch of morons I can guarantee you. I think there is a whole world of information that is not exposed/disclosed in these court papers. While I still think Amsoils advertizing is slimey at best, the product still remains top shelf and most likely will remain there.
My .02

 

Moving right along

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.a...&start=0&num=2

A failure that was actually paid by amsoil, and of course they investigate and blame the motor design. They called it a sludgemonster. Well, these sludgemonsters regularly run well over 200K miles on dino oil with around 5000 miles changes and have no issues. Now amsoil recommends normal intervals on these engines. And the list goes on......

 

Toyota engines are noted for being sludge monsters regardless of oil used. Do a Google for "Toyota sludge monster" and bring lunch as there is a world of complaints about them. My brother runs Toyota trucks and has had two engines replaced by Toyota as the engine went to sludge at the valve train. Both engines had the camshafts break off at the timing belt. He runs Mobil One only despite my telling him otherwise. So again, it may not necessarily be Amsoils fault. Toyota depended on the oil for cooling this area of the engine which is poor engine design, not an oil related problem.

 

I will continue to use Amsoil because I know it is a good product with proven results. If you search long and hard enough Brett you can find anything on the internet.
They are not a fly by night snake oil company. We all know you are anti Amsoil, get over it. I am not putting it in your truck am I?

Here is some info for you:
The Company of Firsts
AMSOIL has a documented history of innovation and leadership.

First to develop an API-rated 100 percent synthetic motor oil.
First to introduce the concept of "extended drain intervals" with a recommended 25,000-mile/1-year drain interval.
First U.S. company to utilize the NOACK volatility test as a standard of performance excellence.
First to produce synthetic motor oils for diesel engines, racing engines, turbo and marine engines.
First to introduce synthetic oils that legitimately contribute to improving fuel efficiency.
First to manufacture synthetic gear lube for automotive use.
First to manufacture a 100:1 pre-mix synthetic 2-cycle oil.
First to manufacture a synthetic automatic transmission fluid for automotive use.

 

Not true. These engines are only sludge prone when the fluids aren't changed as recommended. The point of this is that as engines become more and more advanced and run like this toyota motor does, and perform more intensely to adhere to enviormental standards, then the fluid will simply have to be changed as stated or the manufacturer isn't going to warranty anything. Now its would be left up to Amsoil, who issues a TSB and says simply, follow manufacturers suggestions not ours!

Also, I am not trying to discredit anything (other than 25K miles intervals) I am simply educating those who come here looking for advice on what NOT to do if they like their cars. You can be the first man in space, the first man on the moon, and the first man to die in space as well. Then all your firsts mean jack chit cause you're dead. Amsoil MAY be a fine lubricant, but its not a 24K miles one. Firestone makes a perfect example of this with their tire dilema. They had huge contracts, massive profits, and a trap door underneath them that almost bankrupted the company for one line failure.

 

I bet you guys believe in SynLube™ Lube-4-Life 15 year 150K mile oils too.

1968
U.S. Army develops MIL-L-46167 specification, which can be satisfied only with PAO synthetic oil

1972
AMSOIL is formed and markets re-labeled MIL specification oils to motoring public through multi-level "pyramid" type organization.

Just the facts mam, just the facts.

 

Like I said believe what you want. Everyone here has seen your bias and now your immature call out. I guess everyone on here that uses Amsoil products is wrong and stupid because Brett says so.

Here is a good book filled with facts:

http://www.motor-oil-engineers.com/

 

So if I write a book I guess its then fact eh? I don't call educating those who want to know the truth about these things immature either. I don't see how you'd call immature finding factual information about what their product was based off and posting it here.

I've looked at every single oil on the market. I've seen every single different mileage that can be seen on changes. I know the results of such as well. You can't do what Amsoil claims and have a good clean running gasoline engine. The proof in the pudding was the problems they are having with toyota's 4 cylinder. The company that will be the number auto seller in the states and probably the world (as much as I hate to say it) don't make chitty products that die. People do dumb chit like going 10000 plus miles with any oil and thats where the issue occurs. Amsoil is proven to be no different than any other synthetic or dino in that application. I guess Toyota should redesign their engine around Amsoil standards

 

Navi I agree with you 200% as I am a 3 or 3 man for over 40yrs never a oil related problem using dino oil also I have an 04 toyo camry and they don't even recommend any kind of synthetic oil.

 

I maintain all of state farms southeastern fleet vehicles. In the last two years, theyhave changed from the dodge straus, intrepid, and ford taurus to toyota camrys and nissan altimas. After 20000 miles with 5000 miles changes, the evidence is already showing that the toy's are having buildup. They are changing to 3000 mile increments. Again, the proof is in the pudding.

And last night I was watching the mobil 5000 comerical, which states its the only dino oil capable of going 5000 miles between changes.

 

I can't agree with everyone here, nor disagree, but the point simply rests in this single statement. The fact is no matter what oil you use, it will eventually start to break down from heat thus losing it's ability to lubricate the motor (FACT).

The difference between oil changes at 3K vs. 5K is the difference between smoking 1/2 a pack a day & not smoking Not literally, but you get my point. It doesn't matter if it's synthetic or not, shorter intervals on oil changes will help reduce buildup and prolong the life of the motor.

I personally use synthetic oil (Mobil 1) and my truck pulls 16 city/21-22 hwy with 93K milage. I'm not complaining a bit because she is still pulling factory gas milage and that is enough for me...

 

Might want to tell Toyota that

Toyota to repay customers with oil-sludge problem

By David Kiley, USA TODAY

DETROIT — Toyota acknowledged Wednesday that millions of its cars and trucks could develop a ruinous oil-sludge problem and said it would repay owners who have had to make repairs.

Toyota says the problem is caused by going too long between oil changes, but nevertheless says it is changing the engine design to prevent a repeat.

Affected: 3.0-liter V-6 and 2.2-liter four-cylinder engines in more than 3.5 million 1997-2002 Toyota Camrys, Avalons, Highlanders and Siennas and Lexus ES and RX 300s.

Toyota says it will repay owners for repairs and other related expenses, such as car rentals.

Toyota had been resisting repayment, prompting angry owners to demand arbitration, hire lawyers and vent on the Internet.

Toyota's acknowledgment of a potential problem is significant because of the reputation Toyota and Lexus enjoy for high quality.

"I was a loyal Toyota owner, on my third, but this is my last because of the way they have treated this," says Robin Burpee, a Sienna minivan owner in Mendon, Mich. She spent $5,000 on repairs, car rentals and other expenses.

Lawyers in Georgia and Florida have been gathering steam to seek class-action status for a planned lawsuit against Toyota.

Marketing experts say Toyota's decision is an example of how persuasive the Internet can be. "Where do people go to research their car purchase? The Net," says marketing consultant Paul Franklin.

"I'm sure Toyota hates to see so many complaint sites come up on a Google search of its brand," he says, referring to the Internet search engine.

Toyota spokesman John Hanson acknowledges that the anti-Toyota Internet comments contributed to the decision. But, he says, "It is not an engine defect. We are sure the problem comes from people not changing their oil often enough."

Hanson says the problems have been concentrated where winters are extremely cold and summers are especially humid and among owners who make a lot of short trips. Hanson says the company is making an immediate change to its V-6 engine that will give a wider margin of error if people wait too long to change their oil. A redesign of the four-cylinder already incorporated a similar change.

 

Not true about Toyota engines being sludge monsters? Go make supper and click on the following Google search. See ya in the morning.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...+sludge+engine

 

You guys are starting to act like children.

TO EACH IS OWN!!!

(Personally, I like Mobil 1. Many people call it a waste of time and money. But it's my $ to spend how I please. Spend yours on your preferred oil. And get over your egos. Not everyone has to like what you like.)