rmeid, I sure don't see any. In fact, took a clean white diaper and swabbed the inside of the duct just this past weekend. After 10K miles, nothing.

Sure you had the filter and joint lined up properly?

I've used the K&N filters in several vehicles. Cone and flat canister type. I've never noticed any fine particles behind the filters.

And if anyone should see them it should be me, as I drive lots on dirt roads.

 

Well, part of me is thinking that there ain't no such thing as a free lunch; that increased air flow that they're so proud of has to come with a cost. If you're letting more air into the engine, you're letting more of everything else that comes along with that air into the engine. Dust and dirt. And without that oil, they don't filter jack. Says so right in the instructions.

I've replaced and cleaned several mass air sensors for lean codes set by oily dirt residue (dirt? Wait, I thought these filters actually filter...) from the filter itself. And if it's from over oiling, someone needs to tell K&N that they over oil their filters from the factory, as I ran a factory oiled new K&N in my '97 F250 for about 35K miles before getting lean codes and low BARO readings.

For some people, they work fine. I weighed the initial cost of the filter, plus the cost of the recharger kits, plus the time to service them, plus the check engine lights and oily residue in the bottom of the air filter canister in my F250, and it's easier just to use paper filters and replace them as needed.

 

so what if i install a cold air intake would that make a differance and does all the plug ins off the oem plug in to the aftermaket intake i was thinking about the brute force C.A.I. kit

 

You guys said you get these all the time, shesh... you wern't joking.

Don't use it, i used it on an old S-10, two of them actually, and the parents Escape. After a while you get the "Oil" residue on your intake, and if it gets on your sensor, it messes up your millage. My first s-10 when from 19-21 down to 16-18. now, you can say it's the way i drive, or i've got more "Power" and am using it. It took about 2-3 months before the problem showed up, and it didn't matter HOW hard i tried to clean it. The millage never got better.

Doesn't trap crap untill you get it diry. I actually had dirt sitting in the folds of the intake on my old s-10. And, ihad that thing off enough to know it wasn't there before, and it got there after several long trips down dirt roads.

Stick to your stocker, helps keep water, dirt, and oil out.

 

Let me preface this by saying I don't care what product you decide to use. For most folks the CAIs are a waste of money. They are marginally beneficial at full throttle only- is that where you drive your engine? A stock air box will handle seven times the engines requirements- do you think more air is necessary and if so, what will the engine do with it? Again, buy what ya like. If it makes you feel warm and fuzzy- great. The oil/gauze type filters can be beneficial if you have a dirty environment and don't have time for maintenance downtime. Otherwise, unless you have had a trended oil analysis supporting that the air filter is not allowing particulate matter in your engine, you don't have a clue if it's doing the job correctly or not. Oil migration to the sensors is common with these types of filters. Generally the user has cleaned the filter far too much and applied too much oil. In test data that I have seen, some of the K&N filters have had breaches in the gauze at the size of 140+ micron. (A micron is 1/1,000,000 of a meter) The size particule that will do damage to your engine is 40 microns and larger. Particulates at 20 microns will cause excessive wear if in abundance. Most fleets will try to target 3 microns for longer engine life. Do any of you KNOW what the particule count is in your oil? How many even know what particule count is? The point I'm trying to make is that the engine manufacturer has gone to great lengths to get the best OVERALL performance out of the engine and all of its components. Do you really think the guy at the burger shop knows better because he bought an oil gauze filter? Anyway, didn't mean to preach. Here is a linky for you to look at concerning air filters. The guy running the certified test is a Ford PSD owner and the test engine is a Duramax. Give it a look.
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

 

Wow! Eye opening!

 

I like my K & N intake system, no problems at all so far (30K on it).

 

Hmmmmmm.....lots of interesting info. I can't say as to whether I know as much as the average guy working the grill down at the local burger joint, just sharing my experience with a filter with the folks here.

I've not had any problems with using K&N filters. And I've eused them for years. Now, I don't send oil samples out to be tested and I don't have scientists run experiments with my vehicles, so maybe I'm in for some serious maintanence work down the road.

Bet those graphs would be cool if they were to do "tests" on common sense.

I still use Fram filters, too.

But I do agree when you say, I don't care what you use.

Good day.

 

My K&N has been in for about 60k, in dirty conditions. Ive re oiled it 3 or 4 times already, and it is filthy again, so I will probally just go back to a stock filter pretty soon.

 

This is why the K&N gets the bad rap they do...... They are supposed to get dirty! That's the whole purpose to them. When they are dirty, that's when they filter the best. They still flow as well as they did when totally clean. That's the 'advantage' to these filters.

I really wonder if all the 'tests' that have been performed on the K&N have been done with a 'used' or 'new' filter? I'll bet there would be a difference between the two.....

Anyway, I've not taken any oil samples, or run any flow tests or whatever.... I just know what I see and follow the instructions and so far all has been fine... I'm pretty darn close to having run my K&N for 100,000 miles and I've totally cleaned it twice in that time.... Even that's probably too much! I should only be 'close' to doing my second cleaning now.....

Anyway, it's your truck, run what you feel is best for it. If you had a bad experience with one, then that's 'your experience' with it..... Move on.....

Mitch

 

What about a Fram AirHog or Tough Gaurd... any experiences here?

 

My uncle gave me a k&n for my truck. After using it for a little while, I checked it. It was clogged up a little, but the intake pipe was coated with dust. I re-charged it, and ran it for a little while longer. It filled my intake pipe full of dirt again, so I quit using it. A mechanic told my dad, (whose truck went into the shop for having dirt in the intake) to only use motorcraft filters. He said that the NAPA filters that my dad was using are crap. We switched to motorcraft, and now I stop up an air filter in a matter of months, or even weeks. I never knew what that K&N was letting through. And the napa filter was even worse.

 

I removed my K&N after noticing that it wasn't getting dirty. I put it in new, fresh out of the box, ran it for about 15,000 miles, checked it, and found it to look not quite dirty enough. I live on and drive a lot of dirt roads, so something just didn't seem right. Switched to Motorcraft, noticed a normal accumultion of dirt, and retired the K&N to the gimmicks pile. The K&N may well be the perfect choice in some applications, but for those of us who need our trucks to run flawlessly, day in and day out, for as long as possible, I say go paper. K&N just doesn't inspire my confidence that my engine air is being filtered properly. Improvements in performance and fuel economy were negligible, if noticeable at all.

 

My mas went out with 20k miles while using a replacement k&n filter. Stopped using it about 2 months ago when my fuel rail sensor went out.

 

I quit using my K&N drop in after about 20K miles, it's now collecting (filtering) dust on my workbench, anybody want to buy it?