No! I asked that you, 01, and any others who profess to know more than Ford to prove your side of this discussion. Don't be laying this off on somebody else to prove. You're the ones who are bucking Ford engineers and our Owner's Manuals.

On more than one occassion, I have read posts where 5W-30 is said to protect Triton engines better than 5W-20 and I want all of you who continually say that to prove your point.

If you can't prove your point, then you should not be saying it, isn't that correct? If you can't prove your point, shouldn't you be posting a qaulifier if you continue to make those statements?

Something like, "I believe Ford engineers are smoking crack and I know more than they do, but can't prove it, so I'm running 5W-30 in my engine even though I know it's not what Ford requires."

 

True, but still apples and oranges.

As far as being just for the CAFE, do you have proof or are you just rehashing what is to me, hearsay.

Sure manufacturers have gone to lighter oils to raise the CAFE, but what they have also discovered is that the lighter oils are actually better for our engines.

Besides, why the heck would Honda, a company that has absolutely no problems meeting the CAFE requirements, also require the use of 5W-20?

 

This is the easiest question to answer. Just go to Walmart and buy Motorcraft 5W-20 oil. Costs about $2 a quart.

 

Labnerd, Very informative post!! As others here poke sticks at each other, you are a voice of reason. At my shop we put in 5w-30 in all but the old, mostly for convinence. I must admit, when it comes to ratings, and reccomendations for oil, im as lost as most.
Viscosity, heat transfer... thats the easy stuff.. But my question is what fully synthetic oil is best for replacing 5w-20? I prefer to use Mobil 1, and Walmart now carries 0w-20. Whats is your take on that oil? On Mobils website, it states thats its a reccomended subsitute for 5w-20. Again, thanks for all the info you have provided.

Hak
2003 F150 Supercrew Lariat 4X4 5.4

 

Labnerd-

Thanks for answering those questions so thoroughly. I just have a few more direct questions for you. 1) Is 5W-20 a better viscocity oil for our newer tritons? 2) Is there much noticable difference in long-term wear between an engine that has been run on 5W-20 and one that has been run on 10W-30 when driven in extreme situations? I know for a fact that you can run a Triton engine on 10W-30 and have the engine last 200,000 miles plus. There have been no internal changes (except PI heads) to to Triton engine since Ford recommended 5W-30 in 97. Before that, in the 4.6L Crown Vics. they suggested 10W-30. Many of teh cars are still in service using 10W-30. How muck of a longevity difference will we notice (on average) using the factory spec 5W-20?

Thanks

Everyone-

I've been hellbent on using Red Line 10W-30 oil in my truck since day one. I am seriously considering a switch. I run my truck hard, but does that justify using a $7.75 per quart oil? I have been **** about fluids and change periods, but will I be better off saving the extra couple of bucks and switching to Mobil 1? I am not a chemist or engineer, but I DO WANT THE BEST FLUID POSSIBLE FOR ME VEHICLE, so please give me your suggestions.

 

It looks you posted before you read labnerd's answer. It helped your side of this discussion big time. This topic is about Motorcraft 5w-20 vs 5w-30, not about "who professes to know more than Ford", and your side of this is doing very well.

 

Labnerd, many thanks. In two posts you have stated all I wanted to know about the oil for my Ford truck. Now I can sleep at night....

 

I should have prefaced this with the info provided is in regards to the late model Triton engines that specify a 5w-20 oil.

In regards to the oils available and meeting Fords spec, it is always a good idea to read the label. The Pennzoil, Castrol GTX, and Chevron Supreme have 50 ppm's moly in spectrscopy. Continued use will eventually plate the motor and it will work satisfactory in a towing environment. The Motorcraft, unless they have changed the formula recently, does not have moly. It would appear that Ford/Conoco has engineered a different form of zinc that not only doesn't kill the emmission systems, it has some incredible anti-wear properties negating the need for the moly or other ester forms.

Mobil One in 5w-20 has the same HT/HS number of 2.6 as the Motorcraft. Despite the M1 having a higher VI (147 compared to 160), it's not worth the additional dollars that you are spending. Any of the oils in the 5w-20 are a synthetic or synthetic blend. The difference in the M1 and others is the basestock, M1 is PAO and others are dino synthetics. For further information, not all engines respond well to synthetic Gp IV or higher basestocks. Some engines will have the wear metals 4-5 times higher than a dino basestock. None of Fords engines are in this situation.

In regards to engine life, only when the real world results are in will we really know for sure. In the lab, it works quite well, but if you are a driver that is accustomed to seeing traffic dissappear in the rear view mirror, no oil is going to make your engine last longer. Driving habits are the key to a long life engine, including towing. If you have a truck in a towing environment that you are having to drive on the floor, you either have the wrong gear or the wrong truck and nothing you put in the crankcase is going to make it last longer.

mf150, redline is high in moly and will plate an engine quickly and because of this works great in a race engine where the engine is continually run at boundary lube. It doesn't, however, do well on extended oil changes. I wouldn't suggest running it more than 5,000 miles as it usually will shear down a grade.

It seems most folks have a problem with the fact that Fords spec calls for a 20w oil. I think the number 20 is the reason for concern. Lets look at the real numbers. A 20w oil can have a viscosity at 100 C of 5.60 to 9.29. A 30w oil viscosity range is 9.30 to 12.49. The published Vis @ 100 C for Motorcraft 5w-20 is 8.5. It is a heavy 20 weight oil having a flashpoint of 435 F. Any gassing of the oil will only result in the oil getting heavier. Maybe these numbers will help you to be more comfortable with the lighter oils.

.

 

Labnerd-

Thanks for your honest and direct reply!

 

Labnerd:

Same goes for me, a big thank you for some much information it has me thinking and that is a good thing. I am not hard core on all or many things I believe and with good information I can have my mind changed, thus not close minded.

In regards to Dennis, my porblem was not that I personal knew better then Ford engineers but rather I know the engineering field quite well. Yes, to compare a decission to go from 30W to 20W from Ford themselves is comparing apples to apples to the tire problem they had and other bad decissions. It does not matter that it may have been a different engineering department, but rather an "accepted" policy of Ford and their engineers who work for Ford. They are ALL Ford engineers and thus it is ok to question a decission when it has been proved on occasion that they make a decission in the best interest of Ford rather then the customer.

However, with that said, and getting information from a "independant" outside source changes my thought process. It would not have matter how many Ford engineers told me what Labnerd stated because as far as hearing it from Ford is was biased information. This is so because nothing as far as internal specs for the motor changed, but rather they state to use something thinner the 20W vs 30W also in addition to that is the fact Ford was having a tough time meeting CAFE specs, therefore, as far as I was concerned my thought process was logical in staying with 5W-30 based on past practices that proved to be acceptable and would not harm the motor as I had "thought" 5W-20 may all in the name of meeting CAFE specs.

The argument is really not about warranty issues, because either way Ford would have to cover it. The real argument is which oil will help the motor to last the longest, if maintained properly...

 

I have been reading this board for a long time and just thought that this info I found might interest some, it came from the following ford site: www.motorcraft.com
Just select product info and then oils and lubricants...they talk about the 5w30/10w30 and synthetic 5w30 also.

SAE 5W-20 Premium Synthetic Blend Motor Oil



Motorcraft® 5W-20 motor oil dramatically outperforms and outprotects conventional motor oils. It meets the stringent WSS-M2C153-H Ford Motor Company specification to give the balance of engine durability and performance and to maximize fuel economy while reducing emissions. Due to its low volatility, low oil consumption is maintained. What this means for the environment is a motor oil that pollutes less.

Motorcraft® Quality

Motorcraft® 5W-20 is a premium motor oil blended using synthetic and mineral oil base stocks manufactured via a process called “hydrocracking”. This process rearranges the molecules, freeing them of impurities and making them more durable and resistant to breakdown. Motorcraft® 5W-20 dramatically outperforms and outprotects conventional motor oils. Specially tailored additives are included to:
- Reduce friction
- Minimize engine deposits and wear
- Protect against high temperature oxidation and low temperature thickening, rust, corrosion and foaming


SAE Grade 5W-20

API Service SJ / EC
Gravity, ºAPI 35.0
Specific Gravity, @ 60ºF (15.5ºC) 0.852
Density, lb/gal 7.10
Flash Point, COC, ºF(ºC) 365(185)
Viscosity:
cSt @ 40ºC 49
cSt @ 100ºC 8.8
Viscosity Index 161
HT/HS Viscosity, cP @ 150ºC 2.65
Pour Point, ºF(ºC) -49 (-45)
Sulfated Ash, Wt. % 0.94
Total Base Number (TBN) 7.5
ASTM Color 4.0

 

Labnerd,

I've been a loyal Mobil 1 (5W-30) user since I bought my '98 4.6L.It is my 2nd vehicle so I only put about 12,000 miles a year on it. You have me convinced to try the Motorcraft 5W-20 EXCEPT for this:

It never "used" oil between 5,000 mile changes except one time on a high speed (75 to 85 MPH) open road trip(no towing). On that occasion it "used" a full quart in under 2,500 miles.

Before I started the EXACT SAME trip again I changed to Mobil 1 (10W-30) and again "used" ZERO oil at the 5,000 mile oil change.

If I change to 5W-20 Will my 4.6L Triton "use" or "burn" oil when operating at high speeds for an extended period?

Thank you for sharing your knowledge,

Bill

 

This is a great thread. I am now open-minded to the possibility of 5W-20 being a "passing oil." As Labnerd stated, " only when the real world results are in we will really know for sure." I agree with this statment regarding engine longevity. I am not denouncing 5W-20 in the least bit, but I do notice I have less engine noise with a 10W-30, which is to be expected. I will stick with my choice of oil, and at the same time I will be doing more research (personal curiosity) on the newer oil (5W-20).

Just wanted to say thanks.

Dennis-

It looks as though I mis-represented your statment, and for that I am sorry...not a conscious thing.

 

JKL, Interesting link. I have not seen that tech sheet on Motorcraft oil. I have a letter to Motorcraft about the current spec sheet, but if the one on their website is the newest, Motorcraft has better numbers than Mobil One. The VI at 161 is 1 higher than M1(like as if your engine will ever know it) and the HT/HS is 2.65 compared to M1 at 2.6. HT/HS can be an indicator of wear at rings and bearings, the higher the number the better.

wmcnally, If you are happy with the M1, stay with it. I drove my 4.6 over 800 miles this last fall and most of the driving was at 105 mph prox (pegged the speedo and then the rev limiter kicked in) and it didn't use enough to show any difference on the stick using Motorcraft. You can always try it and if your particualr engine doesn't like it, switch back. There is nothing in either to keep you from switching.

 

Just got back from picking my headgasket leaking truc up at Ford. While there I asked a Ford Master Technician what he thought about running 5W-20 (which they use at that particular dealership). He said that the pistons on our trucks are covered with Teflon, this makes the clearances very tight, hence the use of 5W-20 oil. I told him that I have been using Red Line 10W-30 and he said that in actuality, I would be okay, but there is a slight possibility of oil starvation issues. He cracked the engine to replace the headgasket and his comment that my engine was super clean. He say that any quality oil will do teh job if you change it every 3,000 miles and a good synthetic will run 5,000, as we all suspected. If you are running 10W-30 and haven't had any problems, you can stick with it...it's just advised that you use the 5W-20 on the newer truck, because they haven't broken in.

Straight from the horse's mouth!