Tranny only works with od off
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From: Wilmington DE
For 100 bucks your probably getting one in the same shape as yours!And like Darrin said,BOTH tranys would have to be totally disassembled in order to make it work for your truck.
Unless you build tranys it would probably cost less to just get a rebuild IMHO.
Phil
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From: Indianapolis, IN
Depends. Who are you going to get to take the transmission apart and rebuild it with the proper stuff?
Darrin
Darrin
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From: off the path in Louisiana
I got 6 months to get it swapped so I figured in that time I'll either have a used one built or gotten pissed off and bought a performance one. I have another vehicle right now I'm driving but it's not the boss 
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From: nc
One of the best sites about ford transmissions http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny...on/index.shtml
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From: Indianapolis, IN
Darrin
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From: Windsor, Ont.
After reading this, your tranny did exactly what mine did. Solution? Rebuild it. New (better) o/d band (primary cause), new clutches, accumulator springs, blah blah blah, a good rebuild kit has all kinds of upgrades for crap that hasn't broke, but woulda. Around $1500-2000 gets it removed, rebuilt and re-installed, not to mention, the kit got me a new, better torque converter too. Drive around in drive for now, mileage will suck a bit though.
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From: off the path in Louisiana
ok well here's the update i just got on my trans...
Hey Josh,
Well, ya had a good break in this dude. That small input OD shaft is available in an HD. Sounds like that's what we'll be getting! Also the OD drum is going to need to be replaced, as well as possibly the input gear. The output shaft tip looks like it got hot but is not scored. The accumulator, not pictured, also had a big chunk out of the rubber. Both bands are smoked, so we're going to Kevlar. Other than that, I've seen worse, but your getting close!
So I'll be ordering the clutches on Monday AM. I'll have to order in your OD drum as well, however they might actually have one.
So that's it for now. I'm getting it all cleaned up, separated and will probably at least get the valve body modifications done tomorrow.
Hey Josh,
Well, ya had a good break in this dude. That small input OD shaft is available in an HD. Sounds like that's what we'll be getting! Also the OD drum is going to need to be replaced, as well as possibly the input gear. The output shaft tip looks like it got hot but is not scored. The accumulator, not pictured, also had a big chunk out of the rubber. Both bands are smoked, so we're going to Kevlar. Other than that, I've seen worse, but your getting close!
So I'll be ordering the clutches on Monday AM. I'll have to order in your OD drum as well, however they might actually have one.
So that's it for now. I'm getting it all cleaned up, separated and will probably at least get the valve body modifications done tomorrow.
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Indianapolis, IN
Oh my God. Please forgive me in advance because boy do I have a LOT to say about that response. I hope that you understand that I am only trying to get you the real advice and help that you need to both repair the failure and address the root cause.
To properly address any failure you have to first figure out what caused the failure so that you can address that situation or the same condition(s) will come up again and result in another failure. This obviously hasn't been done here because what I am reading is the 100% direct approach toward a band-aid. This is NOT how things should be done to provide you with a service that will both repair this failure and prevent another one.
Lets start off with the stub shaft which obviously broke. Why did this shaft break? I can tell you with 100% complete certainty that it didn't break from power. Well, not directly from power at least. The stub shaft broke from a shift into overdrive at power that caused the transmission to bind through that shaft when the overdrive band applied before the forward clutch could release. Here is the bad news on this with his band-aid, if the same conditions are met again then the transmission will bind again. If the transmission binds up like that through a stub shaft that is harder than the other parts then the next weakest link will eventually break and that can be catastrophic. I saw a transmission that literally exploded the planetary gearset when the stub shaft didn't break. Instead, the shaft held and the force twisted the hub that the shaft splines into on the direct drum causing it to both spread out and bend off of it's axis. This caused the forward sun gear to shatter and the back of the planet to crack and explode. The resulting parts coming through the floorboard became a primary concern and a huge distraction as more parts and fluid scattered under the vehicle causing the driver to completely lose control and crash. Had the stub shaft just simply broke like yours did then that episode likely would have gotten only as bad as a really nasty cussing fit maybe including a little key throwing instead of crashed vehicles and hospital bills.
I NEVER use those hardened stub shafts unless the customer makes me use one and signs a release for liability for me. Never, ever, ever. Danger! Warning! Catastrophe ahead! This is like where people used to put a penny in place under a blown fuse. Sure they got to use their power again, but they didn't fix the problem that could, and often did, burn the whole house down.
On to the bands. Kevlar is going to cause issues because it slips and generates heat. On a race car this is an ok material, but on a street driven vehicle that is the worst possible choice. The factory bands are even a better choice there than Kevlar because they will hold up to normal usage and they aren't expensive. If you want a better band then go with the high carbon versions instead. I have seen kevlar bands cause the computer to generate transmission slippage codes.
Looking at the bands individually, let's first off address the overdrive band. I mean think about this, the factory paper is really way, way, WAY more resistant to slippage than kevlar and yet it still slipped and burnt up. That means the conditions that the truck sees are a usage that will burn up a stock overdrive band and we know that kevlar is going to slip even more. The ugliness here is that this won't burn up the band itself which is a relatively cheap part. That heat has to go somewhere and the reverse drum is going to take that hit. I have seen these drums warp from exactly this and cause a no reverse condition because of either binding the clutches or burning up and failing the lip seals on the piston. A reverse failure is the most likely outcome eventually if kevlar is used for the overdrive band.
But there is one minimal advantage to a kevlar OD band and this is why I am wishfully thinking that it was chosen. The extra slippage from a kevlar OD band at the right time might actually help protect the stub shaft from breaking. Unfortunately that only potentially moves the source of trouble that is going to cause your next failure a little further away from the stub shaft and a little more toward the reverse drum as being the problem child. And, it isn't guaranteed that it will even do that.
Next, the reverse band. Really, kevlar for a reverse band on this transmission in this vehicle? Why would anyone want to replace the high carbon factory band used in that year of this transmission with an inferior (for this use) material like kevlar? My concern, again, is how the reverse band got "smoked" in the first place. Without actually seeing the transmission to diagnose the failures or talking to you about how you use the truck, I can only guess that this was an effect of the first failure. I would have to see the planetary to maybe have a better idea of what happened here, but whatever caused it isn't going to be cured by kevlar. Instead that problem is pretty much guaranteed to get worse with that material if it was a failure all it's own from usage.
And then comes the "OD drum". This transmission doesn't have an "OD drum" in it. I can only assume that he either means the reverse drum (because that is directly related to overdrive since that is what the overdrive band applies against) or maybe the direct drum (because that is what he has pictured). Regardless, there isn't an OD drum. More on this later.
Next up, the "input gear". WTF is that in this specific transmission? There isn't an "input gear" in these. I can only assume that he means the forward sun gear, again because that is what is pictured. And yes, that either needs to be replaced or have the bushing replaced at the bare minimum. It definitely must have seen some damage when the stub shaft broke, but that damage may have stopped at the bushing if you got lucky. Not an expensive fix even if you have to replace the whole gear.
On to the output shaft. This was a real "Lord help this dude" moment for me when I read what he said about your output shaft. Trust me, they all look like they got hot on the tip. They are supposed to look like that. Why? Because the factory hardens them with... Wait for it... Drumroll please... Heat. Yes, that's right, heat. If it didn't look like it got hot then I would have to worry a little bit. There are definitely some concerns that need to be addressed on the output shaft, but the look of the factory hardened tip isn't one of them.
You don't know how much I hated to see your post. It pisses me off that there are people like that out there working on this stuff. I bet you haven't gotten any real input as to how the failure(s) occurred when that is the thing that you need to be hearing the most.
So, as to that, let's get onto the facts of the matter which will actually help you keep it from happening again. The basic obvious fact is that you broke your intermediate stub shaft. This can happen one of several ways and all of them are related to the computer calling for a shift into overdrive in a condition where the forward clutch can't release before the OD band applies. The best way to address the issue is through computer tuning because any truly good tuner knows of this issue and knows how to keep the computer from calling for overdrive in the conditions that will cause this. Short of that, learn to use the heck out of your overdrive cancel button whenever you get anywhere near thinking about mashing the long skinny pedal. If the call is made for overdrive then the transmission will try to do it, even if it shouldn't, and the result will be another transmission suicide. The fact is that the transmission can't be made strong enough to withstand a dead bind like that. The weakest link will break and fortunately in this case that happened just like it should have with an outcome that protected you physically. It might not be a happy outcome for you until you understand the other potentials, but you can believe that it was way better than what could have happened if the wrong parts were already in there.
My advice is to tell you to tell him to save you the money you would be wasting on kevlar bands and hardened stub shafts. Those parts will serve you no real purpose and can definitely make your troubles worse in the long run. He might make a dime from selling them, but that won't help you out in any way whatsoever. Instead it could end up hurting you if the wrong things happen at the wrong time again and the parts that protected you have been replaced with harder to break stuff. Those are race car parts and they have no place on the street. You can instead better use this money to address the issue that really caused you this problem or you could use it to take your wife out for a REALLY nice dinner. Either one of those options are going to give you much more satisfaction and a better return on your investment.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this is definitely going to end up being bad news for you again sooner or later unless you are guided properly on what needs to be done. It sucked that this is the first post I opened up after a long weekend away from it all.
I wish you the best of luck on this. Tread carefully going forward and ask many, many questions. Definitely start out with wanting to have it explained to you exactly how this all happened. Get him to explain to you how and why each of these parts failed and ask what he is doing to prevent these failures from happening again. Ask him why he is making the choices on the replacement parts and what both the beneifts and the downsides are of using those specific parts and materials. Get it all in writing including getting him to guarantee his work against those failures.
Darrin
To properly address any failure you have to first figure out what caused the failure so that you can address that situation or the same condition(s) will come up again and result in another failure. This obviously hasn't been done here because what I am reading is the 100% direct approach toward a band-aid. This is NOT how things should be done to provide you with a service that will both repair this failure and prevent another one.
Lets start off with the stub shaft which obviously broke. Why did this shaft break? I can tell you with 100% complete certainty that it didn't break from power. Well, not directly from power at least. The stub shaft broke from a shift into overdrive at power that caused the transmission to bind through that shaft when the overdrive band applied before the forward clutch could release. Here is the bad news on this with his band-aid, if the same conditions are met again then the transmission will bind again. If the transmission binds up like that through a stub shaft that is harder than the other parts then the next weakest link will eventually break and that can be catastrophic. I saw a transmission that literally exploded the planetary gearset when the stub shaft didn't break. Instead, the shaft held and the force twisted the hub that the shaft splines into on the direct drum causing it to both spread out and bend off of it's axis. This caused the forward sun gear to shatter and the back of the planet to crack and explode. The resulting parts coming through the floorboard became a primary concern and a huge distraction as more parts and fluid scattered under the vehicle causing the driver to completely lose control and crash. Had the stub shaft just simply broke like yours did then that episode likely would have gotten only as bad as a really nasty cussing fit maybe including a little key throwing instead of crashed vehicles and hospital bills.
I NEVER use those hardened stub shafts unless the customer makes me use one and signs a release for liability for me. Never, ever, ever. Danger! Warning! Catastrophe ahead! This is like where people used to put a penny in place under a blown fuse. Sure they got to use their power again, but they didn't fix the problem that could, and often did, burn the whole house down.
On to the bands. Kevlar is going to cause issues because it slips and generates heat. On a race car this is an ok material, but on a street driven vehicle that is the worst possible choice. The factory bands are even a better choice there than Kevlar because they will hold up to normal usage and they aren't expensive. If you want a better band then go with the high carbon versions instead. I have seen kevlar bands cause the computer to generate transmission slippage codes.
Looking at the bands individually, let's first off address the overdrive band. I mean think about this, the factory paper is really way, way, WAY more resistant to slippage than kevlar and yet it still slipped and burnt up. That means the conditions that the truck sees are a usage that will burn up a stock overdrive band and we know that kevlar is going to slip even more. The ugliness here is that this won't burn up the band itself which is a relatively cheap part. That heat has to go somewhere and the reverse drum is going to take that hit. I have seen these drums warp from exactly this and cause a no reverse condition because of either binding the clutches or burning up and failing the lip seals on the piston. A reverse failure is the most likely outcome eventually if kevlar is used for the overdrive band.
But there is one minimal advantage to a kevlar OD band and this is why I am wishfully thinking that it was chosen. The extra slippage from a kevlar OD band at the right time might actually help protect the stub shaft from breaking. Unfortunately that only potentially moves the source of trouble that is going to cause your next failure a little further away from the stub shaft and a little more toward the reverse drum as being the problem child. And, it isn't guaranteed that it will even do that.
Next, the reverse band. Really, kevlar for a reverse band on this transmission in this vehicle? Why would anyone want to replace the high carbon factory band used in that year of this transmission with an inferior (for this use) material like kevlar? My concern, again, is how the reverse band got "smoked" in the first place. Without actually seeing the transmission to diagnose the failures or talking to you about how you use the truck, I can only guess that this was an effect of the first failure. I would have to see the planetary to maybe have a better idea of what happened here, but whatever caused it isn't going to be cured by kevlar. Instead that problem is pretty much guaranteed to get worse with that material if it was a failure all it's own from usage.
And then comes the "OD drum". This transmission doesn't have an "OD drum" in it. I can only assume that he either means the reverse drum (because that is directly related to overdrive since that is what the overdrive band applies against) or maybe the direct drum (because that is what he has pictured). Regardless, there isn't an OD drum. More on this later.
Next up, the "input gear". WTF is that in this specific transmission? There isn't an "input gear" in these. I can only assume that he means the forward sun gear, again because that is what is pictured. And yes, that either needs to be replaced or have the bushing replaced at the bare minimum. It definitely must have seen some damage when the stub shaft broke, but that damage may have stopped at the bushing if you got lucky. Not an expensive fix even if you have to replace the whole gear.
On to the output shaft. This was a real "Lord help this dude" moment for me when I read what he said about your output shaft. Trust me, they all look like they got hot on the tip. They are supposed to look like that. Why? Because the factory hardens them with... Wait for it... Drumroll please... Heat. Yes, that's right, heat. If it didn't look like it got hot then I would have to worry a little bit. There are definitely some concerns that need to be addressed on the output shaft, but the look of the factory hardened tip isn't one of them.
You don't know how much I hated to see your post. It pisses me off that there are people like that out there working on this stuff. I bet you haven't gotten any real input as to how the failure(s) occurred when that is the thing that you need to be hearing the most.
So, as to that, let's get onto the facts of the matter which will actually help you keep it from happening again. The basic obvious fact is that you broke your intermediate stub shaft. This can happen one of several ways and all of them are related to the computer calling for a shift into overdrive in a condition where the forward clutch can't release before the OD band applies. The best way to address the issue is through computer tuning because any truly good tuner knows of this issue and knows how to keep the computer from calling for overdrive in the conditions that will cause this. Short of that, learn to use the heck out of your overdrive cancel button whenever you get anywhere near thinking about mashing the long skinny pedal. If the call is made for overdrive then the transmission will try to do it, even if it shouldn't, and the result will be another transmission suicide. The fact is that the transmission can't be made strong enough to withstand a dead bind like that. The weakest link will break and fortunately in this case that happened just like it should have with an outcome that protected you physically. It might not be a happy outcome for you until you understand the other potentials, but you can believe that it was way better than what could have happened if the wrong parts were already in there.
My advice is to tell you to tell him to save you the money you would be wasting on kevlar bands and hardened stub shafts. Those parts will serve you no real purpose and can definitely make your troubles worse in the long run. He might make a dime from selling them, but that won't help you out in any way whatsoever. Instead it could end up hurting you if the wrong things happen at the wrong time again and the parts that protected you have been replaced with harder to break stuff. Those are race car parts and they have no place on the street. You can instead better use this money to address the issue that really caused you this problem or you could use it to take your wife out for a REALLY nice dinner. Either one of those options are going to give you much more satisfaction and a better return on your investment.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this is definitely going to end up being bad news for you again sooner or later unless you are guided properly on what needs to be done. It sucked that this is the first post I opened up after a long weekend away from it all.
I wish you the best of luck on this. Tread carefully going forward and ask many, many questions. Definitely start out with wanting to have it explained to you exactly how this all happened. Get him to explain to you how and why each of these parts failed and ask what he is doing to prevent these failures from happening again. Ask him why he is making the choices on the replacement parts and what both the beneifts and the downsides are of using those specific parts and materials. Get it all in writing including getting him to guarantee his work against those failures.
Darrin
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From: off the path in Louisiana
Darrin,
how can i get upset with you trying to help??
thanks for the heads up man and write up. i'm not going to lie, that trans has ALOT of highway mileage that was done over 120mph... when it went out on me, it did slip.... bad. i was on a overpass that junctions 2 interstates in albuquerque with ALOT of traffic behind me way up in the air.. it slipped, i hesitated a second or two, and stomped it. was it wrong? yes, but i didn't get anyone killed so i'm happy.
i need to find my receipt from 2 years ago when it was rebuilt to look at the parts used, that may answer alot of questions. thanks for making me wonder that. i've been driving it for about oh 6 months now with just 1st and 2nd gear... we have another vehicle and only drove it maybe 20 miles a week...
now with the tuning, will a tuner (gryphon) cause the computer to bypass the normal function range of o/d? i know what the best advice is on the transmission... quit driving it like i do..
but then there wouldn't be a need for mechanics
how can i get upset with you trying to help??
thanks for the heads up man and write up. i'm not going to lie, that trans has ALOT of highway mileage that was done over 120mph... when it went out on me, it did slip.... bad. i was on a overpass that junctions 2 interstates in albuquerque with ALOT of traffic behind me way up in the air.. it slipped, i hesitated a second or two, and stomped it. was it wrong? yes, but i didn't get anyone killed so i'm happy. i need to find my receipt from 2 years ago when it was rebuilt to look at the parts used, that may answer alot of questions. thanks for making me wonder that. i've been driving it for about oh 6 months now with just 1st and 2nd gear... we have another vehicle and only drove it maybe 20 miles a week...
now with the tuning, will a tuner (gryphon) cause the computer to bypass the normal function range of o/d? i know what the best advice is on the transmission... quit driving it like i do..
but then there wouldn't be a need for mechanics
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,490
Likes: 18
From: Indianapolis, IN
Anything with a canned tune, Gryphon for example, will not do the trick for getting rid of that shift. It will take a custom tune and the only software that I know of which is truly capable of addressing it is SCT.
But, since you said you were going faster than 120, the fix might not be so simple. Even most of the better tuners will run into a hard wall at 127.5mph where the computer will simply over-ride the OD cancel button. It can be tuned out, but only a handful of tuners are knowledgeable enough to be able to get past that 127.5mph roadblock.
So yeah, 'don't do that' would be the best advice.
But I really mean what I said about putting a hardened stub shaft in there. Moreso now that you tell me you drive like that. It is absolutely imperitive that they don't use one of those aftermarket hardened shafts. They won't act like the fuse that this one did. Instead they will hold fast and the next weakest link will let go. When that happens at that speed you are going to wake up dead.
I can't tell you this enough. DO NOT let them use a hardened stub shaft. It really is a life or death matter that we are talking about here.
I don't know how I can stress how important what I am telling you here is. Besides providing exactly zero benefit, you will get the added hazard of turning the transmission into a bomb full of metal that won't hardly slow down as it comes through the transmission tunnel.
Just think about that happening at those kind of speeds. Even if you get lucky enough to be spared by the shrapnel, you still have to keep your wits about you enough to drive it to a standstill with things like a driveshaft and transmission parts banging around under you. IF you think that sounds like tough time, just think about the additional complications involved with throwing about 3 gallons of transmission fluid into the mix just for fun.
I may be painting it a little colorfully, but I am definitely not kidding. Don't let them use one of those hardened stub shafts.
Seriously.
Darrin
But, since you said you were going faster than 120, the fix might not be so simple. Even most of the better tuners will run into a hard wall at 127.5mph where the computer will simply over-ride the OD cancel button. It can be tuned out, but only a handful of tuners are knowledgeable enough to be able to get past that 127.5mph roadblock.
So yeah, 'don't do that' would be the best advice.
But I really mean what I said about putting a hardened stub shaft in there. Moreso now that you tell me you drive like that. It is absolutely imperitive that they don't use one of those aftermarket hardened shafts. They won't act like the fuse that this one did. Instead they will hold fast and the next weakest link will let go. When that happens at that speed you are going to wake up dead.
I can't tell you this enough. DO NOT let them use a hardened stub shaft. It really is a life or death matter that we are talking about here.
I don't know how I can stress how important what I am telling you here is. Besides providing exactly zero benefit, you will get the added hazard of turning the transmission into a bomb full of metal that won't hardly slow down as it comes through the transmission tunnel.
Just think about that happening at those kind of speeds. Even if you get lucky enough to be spared by the shrapnel, you still have to keep your wits about you enough to drive it to a standstill with things like a driveshaft and transmission parts banging around under you. IF you think that sounds like tough time, just think about the additional complications involved with throwing about 3 gallons of transmission fluid into the mix just for fun.
I may be painting it a little colorfully, but I am definitely not kidding. Don't let them use one of those hardened stub shafts.
Seriously.
Darrin
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From: off the path in Louisiana
don't worry man i have already sent an email to him asking him not to use the harder shaft..
as much as i hate saying it... i keep my wits about me when driving... 2 years ago i had a left spring thrown through my windshield while i was doing over 85mph on the interstate. the whole cab just erupted into glass. started cussing and just pulled over easy. didn't scare me but i was pissed about my windshield. i can thank Iraq for for my nerves and driving.
anything else i can take note of man? i'm nervous about reinstall... whats the proper break in procedure, which fluid, should i flush the trans cooler? if so, what method.
the reason i went with this guy is i went to about 4 different shops BEFORE i found him. i talked to the mechanics and maybe it's just albuquerque but none of them satisfied me with talking to them. i'm not taking up for him just trying to make myself feel better about my decision. i'm really surprised it's not more torn up... 65mph, 4.11 rear end and only 1st and 2nd is really really stupid.
thanks man. i don't know crap about transmissions and am not scared to say it.
and how is it you've been on here longer than ME and i don't know ya bud
as much as i hate saying it... i keep my wits about me when driving... 2 years ago i had a left spring thrown through my windshield while i was doing over 85mph on the interstate. the whole cab just erupted into glass. started cussing and just pulled over easy. didn't scare me but i was pissed about my windshield. i can thank Iraq for for my nerves and driving.
anything else i can take note of man? i'm nervous about reinstall... whats the proper break in procedure, which fluid, should i flush the trans cooler? if so, what method.
the reason i went with this guy is i went to about 4 different shops BEFORE i found him. i talked to the mechanics and maybe it's just albuquerque but none of them satisfied me with talking to them. i'm not taking up for him just trying to make myself feel better about my decision. i'm really surprised it's not more torn up... 65mph, 4.11 rear end and only 1st and 2nd is really really stupid.
thanks man. i don't know crap about transmissions and am not scared to say it.
and how is it you've been on here longer than ME and i don't know ya bud
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,490
Likes: 18
From: Indianapolis, IN
Yeah, I have been on here a while. I have mostly stayed in the transmission area though. It's what I know.
Those shafts break a lot. I have 3 like that in the shop right now. I know it sucks when it happens, but definitely know that it could be worse.
My concerns are that they used the wrong terminology for the parts and that they would even consider kevlar for bands on a street driven truck. This definitely makes me question their level of knowledge about these transmissions. My next question is to wonder if the name Alto is in the parts list because again, for a street driven vehicle, there are choices that will definitely serrve you better.
Just an FYI, these transmissions are regularly built to handle stupid power and abuse using exactly the same parts as come in them from the factory. The configurations end up different for sure and machining is often involved, but the factory stuff usually works best.
I hope my concerns are invalid and I wish you the best with it.
Darrin
Those shafts break a lot. I have 3 like that in the shop right now. I know it sucks when it happens, but definitely know that it could be worse.
My concerns are that they used the wrong terminology for the parts and that they would even consider kevlar for bands on a street driven truck. This definitely makes me question their level of knowledge about these transmissions. My next question is to wonder if the name Alto is in the parts list because again, for a street driven vehicle, there are choices that will definitely serrve you better.
Just an FYI, these transmissions are regularly built to handle stupid power and abuse using exactly the same parts as come in them from the factory. The configurations end up different for sure and machining is often involved, but the factory stuff usually works best.
I hope my concerns are invalid and I wish you the best with it.
Darrin
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From: off the path in Louisiana
Darrin, help me out here. just got another email from him... anything sound troubling???
As to the "intermediate shaft" it's actually kinda common on HP engines or guys especially running NOS. It's just a weak link. I can order you an "extreme duty" intermediate shaft at 160.00 with shipping. You need it! I also picked up a 6 clutch direct drum which is what the shaft connects to as you saw in the photo. That's your 1st gear. Thus why all the load. Honestly, when one comes in the way that it did most shops would warranty it FYI. They would say that a Neutral Drop had taken place. Which is why a 100+ hit of NOS will do the same. Although the vehicle is moving, while in the middle of a shift will this break occur. Typically due to the fact that there is to much "shift overlap" caused typically by excessive clearances in the clutch pack. (the end clutch to the pressure plate in the drum. Some require .100 where I may bring it to as little as .030" end play. Also more line pressure and valve apply time from the valve body programing also helps with this shift apply.) Think of is as keeping a load on the transmission as a hit of power transfers from the crank. Nothing else was damaged other than what was listed.
As to the "intermediate shaft" it's actually kinda common on HP engines or guys especially running NOS. It's just a weak link. I can order you an "extreme duty" intermediate shaft at 160.00 with shipping. You need it! I also picked up a 6 clutch direct drum which is what the shaft connects to as you saw in the photo. That's your 1st gear. Thus why all the load. Honestly, when one comes in the way that it did most shops would warranty it FYI. They would say that a Neutral Drop had taken place. Which is why a 100+ hit of NOS will do the same. Although the vehicle is moving, while in the middle of a shift will this break occur. Typically due to the fact that there is to much "shift overlap" caused typically by excessive clearances in the clutch pack. (the end clutch to the pressure plate in the drum. Some require .100 where I may bring it to as little as .030" end play. Also more line pressure and valve apply time from the valve body programing also helps with this shift apply.) Think of is as keeping a load on the transmission as a hit of power transfers from the crank. Nothing else was damaged other than what was listed.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,490
Likes: 18
From: Indianapolis, IN
Yeah, I see a lot that is troubling.
The intermediate shaft really needs to be the weak link. However, it doesn't see any torque at all during a "neutral drop" unless someone has figured out how to neutral drop directly to 3rd gear on this transmission. So, that is complete and utter BS.
Also, the 'fix' of tightening up the clutch pack will have exactly the opposite effect on this problem because it will increase the drag of the forward clutch. To use clutch clearance as any sort of aid you would have to have more clearance in the forward clutch instead of less. More line pressure will also add to the problem.
If you want all this explained as to why I am saying these things, I will. It will have to be when I have a little more time because I just had a customer call and I need to get.
That reply is very telling. I can link you to a site that explains the operation of this transmission that you can link him to after you explain why he is wrong if you like.
Anyone that thinks the direct clutch is 1st gear is a moron who doesn't know anything at all about how these transmissions work. If you want to call a clutch a "first gear" clutch in this transmission then it would have to be the Forward clutch.
Oh, and a 6 plate direct clutch is 100% completely bone stock in this application. Nothing special there at all.
Good luck.
Darrin
The intermediate shaft really needs to be the weak link. However, it doesn't see any torque at all during a "neutral drop" unless someone has figured out how to neutral drop directly to 3rd gear on this transmission. So, that is complete and utter BS.
Also, the 'fix' of tightening up the clutch pack will have exactly the opposite effect on this problem because it will increase the drag of the forward clutch. To use clutch clearance as any sort of aid you would have to have more clearance in the forward clutch instead of less. More line pressure will also add to the problem.
If you want all this explained as to why I am saying these things, I will. It will have to be when I have a little more time because I just had a customer call and I need to get.
That reply is very telling. I can link you to a site that explains the operation of this transmission that you can link him to after you explain why he is wrong if you like.
Anyone that thinks the direct clutch is 1st gear is a moron who doesn't know anything at all about how these transmissions work. If you want to call a clutch a "first gear" clutch in this transmission then it would have to be the Forward clutch.
Oh, and a 6 plate direct clutch is 100% completely bone stock in this application. Nothing special there at all.
Good luck.
Darrin