At this point, Your only arguing with yourself.



Im moving on..........

 

Well I'm happy to see yours hasn't puked in a common situation when they are known too under heavy load with an unlocked TC.

Also, puking fluid isn't the only thing that can go wrong. The temps just have to it 250ish once which causes premature brakedown of the fluid limiting the protection to the tranny.

Adrianspeeder

 

Some things I would like you to consider before you make statment about towing.
At your 35 mph low speeds under load, I doubt the trans will go into lockup.
The lock up is electric control by the PCM. OD in not a part of anything in these situations because it won't come in under about 40 mph then only under very light loading.
Also there is a mechanical govenor on the tail shaft that controls fluid routing that also controls gear up and down shifting.
I very much doubt your towing statments for these reasons.
Also, if you have a tachometer, it will tell you right away if the trans is in lockup or not by how far the needle swings with application of throttle.
No lockup will swing about 300 rpm+/- , lock up won't change at all except for whatever the road speed changes.
A swing indicates the converter is in slip and generating heat from fluid shear.
I doubt that your trans is running in anything be slip pulling 'your' loads at 35 to 45 mph.

 

I am confused by your post.. You keep saying that I need to think before making statements.. You keep trying to explain the elementary, but I am very aware of O/D function, and tq converter lockup. I don't see what you're getting at! What reasons give you pause as to the validity of my statements? Did I misrepresent a function of the transmission?

We were speaking of towing and overheating the tranny.... I said that you probably can't overheat the tranny when it is in o/d. I didn't mention the "lock up" but I am aware that tq converter is locked, and there is little heat build up. I don't understand what I said wrong. Here's an overview of how I "imagine" the transmission working.....

1st- torque converter always unlocked.
2nd- torque converter unlocked except very very light loading
3rd- torque converter locked if maintaining highway speed, or accelerating at highway speed.
4th- (O/D) torque converter always locked.

(by highway speed I mean 40-45ish+)

Is this right? If not, then please explain further... I know that this holds true only during acceleration or cruise, but if I got something wrong, please tell me.

If I was pulling a heavy load at 35mph, then the converter would be unlocked, rpms would be high, and there would be more heat build up as compared to cruise. So doesn't that situation tax your trans cooling to the max?....
Yes... but that's not applicable in his situation, cause whether in 3rd or o/d the converter would be locked. I feel like you're trying to tell me facts I already know, all the while telling me I don't know what I'm talking about.... So, please correct my incorrect statements. I'm here to learn too!

 

I was told the converter has to be unlocked to shift. Could be wrong though.

One more thing I thought of is you should have the E4OD which is a bit tougher than the 4R70 and 4R75 tranny and in theory can take more abuse.

Adrianspeeder

 

I think it usually is, but I'm not sure about the 3-4 shift under light to medium acceleration. It may not have to be unlocked. But other than that, I think you're right.

 

Lots of good debate here, and I appreciate the responses. I think it's great that chester8420 hasn't had any trouble with his tranny, but his experience appears to be in the minority. $60 and an hour (or 3) of my time isn't that big a deal.

So, I need to get going on this. Anyone installed a B&M Supercooler to know if I'll need extra parts?

It also appears an electrical gauge might be simpler to install as opposed to a mechanical one?

Thanks again for the responses!

 

I think it would be easiest to install a scanguage, or an edge, to monitor tranny temps. You could also monitor engine oil temp, coolant temp.......

 

I'm not sure about the Edge, but the Scangauge doesn't display transmission temperature. Does it? It'd be nice, though.

I'd doubt the Edge does, either.

And oil temp?

Doubt that, too.

 

http://www.scangauge.com/
I may have been wrong about the scanguage displaying tranny temp, (it does display a lot of other parameters..)

But the Evolution does... and much more!
http://www.edgeproducts.com/pdf/FordF-150Evolution3.pdf

This taken from the Evolution owner's manual.....http://www.edgeproducts.com/pdf/inst...structions.pdf

RPM (revolutions per minute) – Engine speed.
• MPH (miles per hour) – Note: Dash display may be +/-3 MPH off from the digital display due to mechanical differences in the spring, etc. used to control the gauge.
• ECT (engine coolant temperature) – Degrees F.
• EOT (engine oil temperature) – Degrees F.
• TFT (transmission fluid temperature) – Degrees F.
• CHT (cylinder head temperature) – Degrees F.
• IAT (intake air temperature) – Degrees F.
• LPD (line pressure desired) – Fuel rail pressure desired by the PCM.
• FRP (fuel rail pressure) – Used to control the flow of fuel while an injector has been opened.
• OSS (output shaft speed) – Used with TSS to determine if transmission slip is occurring. If OSS = TSS, no slip is occurring.
• TSS (turbine shaft speed) – Used with OSS to determine if transmission slip is occurring. If TSS = OSS, no slip is occurring.
• MAF (mass air flow) – Used to determine air/fuel ratio.
• MAFV (mass air flow voltage) – A voltage representation of MAF (from sensor).
• VCT (variable cam timing) – Number of degrees the cam is advanced/retarded in regard to crankshaft angle.
• SPARK (spark advance) – Current timing advance/retard for the spark plugs.
• TQC (torque control) – Amount of torque reduction to control traction.
• LOAD (engine load %) – Percentage of total power available being used by the engine.
• APP (accelerator pedal position)
• BAT (battery voltage)

 

Cool.

Thanks.

 

I tow a #5000 travel trailer and I'm only using the stock cooler. I thought about upgrading, but I installed the gauge first to determine what my acutal temps were....

Now, I live in the NW, so we are 'cool' for the most part, but I've towed to Eastern Washington and it's a freaking DESERT out there in the Summer time....

Anyway, I've determined that the stock cooler is fine for my situation. My trans temp gauge is an electric one (as is the 'real' WATER temp gauge I installed at the same time). I installed it on the trans OUTPUT line, just before it hits the rad cooler, so it's going to report the hottest temps my fluid every gets.....

To date (over 5 years now) it's gotten as high as 210*. And that's been running the mile and a half from the freeway to my house after driving over 200+ miles with the temp never getting above 180*..... Or, it's been running up a 6% grade in second gear towing the trailer. And that was when the TC was unlocked... Once it locked in 2nd gear, the temp went down to 195*...

I've seen my trans temp shoot up to 210* just backing my truck up a steep incline! The trans temp will get to 180* just running down the road towing nothing on a hot summer day. It'll run 180* towing my trailer on a hot summer day...

180* seems to be it's break even point, probably due to running thru the rad first, but in the winter time, it'll barely get off the 100* mark, so my stock cooler is doing a pretty good job I'd say...

If you do go with an aftermarket cooler, make sure it's a stacked plate design and not just a tube and fin kind... The stacked plates are a lot more efficient for their size and you won't lose as much pressure by having to circulate thru all that extra tubing...

Anyway, that's been my experience with my gauge and stock cooler and my rig has over 160,000 miles on it now....

Regular maintenance of the fluids and all will go a long way too! I have the trans serviced every year, so it's always got fresh fluid...

Mitch

 

Mitch, your doing quite well with towing temps.
The trans fluid will take upwards of 270° before brakdown begins.
The pan temp never gets as high as the converter temp.
You are right that the fluid going thru the radiator will be a large controlling factor in overall system temp.
You can put all kinds of cooling in the return line and even cool below the pan temp and not do any better.
The return line does not spill directly into the pan but cools and lubes other parts where it picks up heat again before dropping into the pan.
I have accumulated a lot of experience on all this to the point of having a custom heavy duty trans built for my towing application.
All the changes have resulted in dramatic temp reductions as well as near bullet proof performance.
You might be interested in a device called a converter locker. It keeps the converter locked up to a much lower speed (not drop out so soon) and helps use the motor for braking, runs the trans cooler and even save some brake pad wear in normal low speed travel and braking. I have a hill to go down and my 5400 lb truck just keeps on rolling on the level form it and have to always use a lot of braking. This is one of the reasons these truck use up more pads in a shorter time frame as compaired to the older trucks.
It's funny but the vehichle mfgers make these same type changes after a number of year go by, that the aftermarket developes.
Integrated trailer controller is another.
I think soon you will see Ford have a control to alter the PCM program for extra towing power that is now done by aftermarket tuners and cost them nothing to do it.
Good luck with your towing.

 

Bluegrass,

Yeah, I've been impressed myself. I hear of folks towing travel trailers talking about temps of 230* and above... Most of them have the sensor in the test port or the pan too!

I know having my sensor after the TC, that what I'm seeing is the hottest it ever gets, so as long as it's not 250* or above, I feel I'm doing fine.

Since I've not seen above 210* and that's only when the TC is running unlocked, I don't fret about it...

I would like to be able to manualy lockup the TC for those lower speed times, that I know the engine can still handle the load, but the TC unlocks anyway..... Once I can get to around 35 mph, it'll usually lockup, but I'd like to lock up around 25 mph if I could...

But, I've had good luck with my E4OD in stock form, and with 160k on it, it must be happy!

Thanks!

Mitch

 

I just checked with the company that was selling the converter lockup controllers and found out their supplier went out of biz.
I don't know at this time if there is any other unit like it on the market.
I will be making a reccomendation to another company that they consider includng such a mod into there programmer.