Skid,

Just goes to show the potential of the ATI. I still don't see why so many doubt the ATI after seeing good numbers from the Magna.

Is the inline with the kit causing the lean condtition at high revs, or is it just chip/injector limits?

 

It is the MAF and Injector limits. The stock fuel system runs about 40 psi. With the FMU in place it runs above 100 psi. This makes the injectors act larger than they are. We are maxing out the amount the injector can spray and the amount of air the MAF can meter. This is why we are doing the 90mm MAF and 42# injectors. This will allow us to remove the FMU, lower the fuel pressure, and be able to tune the system with the chip.

 

I get an occaisional leanout at about 3200 rpms going up hill. I'm in austin so there are a number of big long hills. When in 3rd at 3200 rpms passing all the riffraff at 83 mph, sometimes the CHECKENG light comes one. When I crest the hill and get off the gas, light goes off. If i'm gittin on it and singing thru the rpm rang, no leanout either. It only happens occaisionally at a constant 3200 rpms in 3rd at 2/3 throttle.

My gut feeling is that an upgraded fuel system with some aggressive fuel and timing tables (along with the yet to be done shiftkit) will totally remove this problem.

INterestingly enough, there is a lot of black carbon buildup at the tip of my exhaust, as if I was running overly rich main jets in a carb (any of you old timers remember carbs?)

I'm not complaining about anything, just giving my experience.

F

 

Ok, in comparing the two dynos, one from ati and one from magna, assuming they are both corrected numbers and accurate within a small variance, here is what I come up with by examining the charts carefully: (note I estimated the numbers, but they should be quite close)


Magna ATI
RPM HP TQ HP TQ
3.4 260 230 248 375
3.6 287 265 263 385
3.8 283 278 284 387
4.0 282 293 311 401
4.2 278 304 324 400
4.4 275 320 335 387
4.6 270 322 340 380
4.8 260 325 349 375
5.0 254 330 345 355

Ok... So, in comparing the numbers, it would tend to explain why the magna is faster off the line. Below 3800 RPMs, the magna has more horses. That makes sense. A few things I don't understand and maybe some of the technical folks can shed some light. How is it possible that there is such a difference in Torque? The magna PEAK torque is lower than the lowest ATI for this range of RPMs. Also, looking at the Magna Dyno chart, HP starts hight and drains off with RPMs. Torque starts low and builds with RPMs. For the ATI, Torque and RPMs start low and build with RPMS and Stay paralell throughout the range. This scenario means when max HP is reached on the magna, max torque isn't even in the same zip code. The ATI seems to follow a much closer paralell and hence a closer peak of the two numbers at the same time.

So, feel free to shed some light on my above observations.

Red is curious.

 

Great chart/matrix. This is the kind of info we all need to see!!!!!!


What was the magna on, a 4 cylinder in a crewcab with a full size bed loaded down with a couple of cords of firewood? What was the ATI on, a 460 bored .30 over in a ranger with no bed!?! ha!

Is this a misprint?

Are these the dynos off of two trucks that were the same except for the superchargers used?

According to the dyno comparison, the Magna peaked at 287 hp and 330 tq. Yet, the ATI peaked at 345 hp and 401 tq. What the h***!!! Someone please tell me that I am reading the dyno matrix wrong, or that there is a misprint or that this was a comparison of a magna mounted on a skateboard and that the ATI was mounted on a NASA rocket!!!!!!

 

Da**! I should have listened to Crash!

Now, what I am suppose to do with a brand new MagnaCharger kit that I just paid for in full, that I have not even received yet, but is going to get me "spanked" when I do install it!?!

How much more am I going to have to do just to get my hp/tq numbers up to the same level as an "out-of-the-box" ATI?

 

guys...

Sorry if I am misleading anyone... the numbers are from the dynos given in this thread. the magna numbers are from Flats Man with a 4.6 running the 7lb pulley. The ATI#s are Skids and I believe it is a 5.4, but I don't know for sure. I know there is a difference in motors, but THAT much? Maybe 20hp at the wheel?

There is a posted Dyno on an ATI with a 4.6 in another thread. I can't read the dyno chart as it bounces all over the place and says standard HP and standard torque which I assume is not SAE adjusted, but I just don't know...

red

p.s. someplease please go back and read my post and answer the technical questions that don't come up due to engine differences.

 

The ATI is very appealing. I wish I had know then what I know now. The Magnacharger is no slouch though. It might not compete as well at the track. Will all the supercharger trucks be going to the track? Oh, I forgot for a second that I was here on F150 Online, I guess they will all be going to the track.
I have the Magnacharger and that's that. Though I would like to know how the ATI performs, I will be content with what I have. I hope to be able to do some upgrades in the near future. It can get better.
Iron Horse, I think you will be pleased with your setup. Think about the deal you got too. Don't worry about being beat by the ATI's untill you've driven your truck Magnacharged.

It would be nice to see numbers for both the 4.6 and the 5.4 with the ATI and the Magna.

 

HI!.... HEY! "N/A" can be fast too!!!!!!!

 

For the daily driver, I would assume that a magna would be loads of fun, too... I spend a great deal of time in the sub 3000 rpm area which is where the roots will supposedly shine. I don't suspect i will ever make it to the track so i think the magna would be more than sufficient for my needs.

With a magna vs. an ATI, who gets to 60mph sooner? 60MPH dashs are certainly more common that 1/4s and I suspect that up to that point they will probably run head to head...

I am trying to find the time to get up to Dallas to have crash put a blower in for me...

 

Hang on guys...nobody else notice anything wrong with the trq/hp numbers from Flats truck...redscrew seems to have plotted the wrong lines for horsepower and torque as they don't match up at all... This is what I got off of Flatsman's dyno graph...
Trq HP
3600 335 229
3800 332 240
4000 330 251
4200 325 260
4400 320 268
4600 315 275
4800 305 278
5000 297 282
5200 287 284
5400 277 284

That makes more sense now doesn't it. It's kind of unfair to compare the 4.6 auto to skids 5.4 auto also. So for better comparison I've extrapolated the numbers from overtaxed dyno of a 4.6 auto with the ATI. Both he and Flatsman have somewhat similar mods of headers, true duals, FIPK, TB, MAF...I'm not sure that they both have everything but fairly close for comparison...

Trq HP
3600 345 236
3800 350 253
4000 340 258
4200 335 267
4400 330 276
4600 340 297
4800 345 315
5000 327 311
5200 312 308
5400 300 308

This shows the same really flat torque curve of the ati as in skids dyno, just with the lower numbers from the 4.6. The are a few things to note that nobody ever really mentions..
1)Flat's Magnacharged 4.6 has the non-pi heads which could explain the torque dropping off pretty hard at the higher RPMs while overtaxed '99 should have PI heads and flow better at the higher RPMs.
2)Overtaxed dyno numbers are STD which give higher numbers than those corrected to SAE. Not sure about Flats as his dyno run only says Actual HP, maybe he can tell us.
3)This is from >3000 RPMs as that is all the dyno can capture on the automatic trucks. The ATI is well into it's power by then. It would be interesting to know the unknown numbers below 3000, below 2500, below 2000, etc...

So given all that and that no two dyno are going to give the same numbers, I would say the two are pretty evenly matched. It will be really interesting when Flats get the better heads on, but overall at similar boost levels it doesn't appear that either is going to be walking away from the other...now with the simple mods that get the ATI putting out 11-12psi....hmmm things could get very interesting indeed...

 

Tiron, that is an excellent piece of detective work you did there. Very observant. I am giving away too much with the old 98 heads and with the newer trucks, in order to be competitive, I have to lose the old heads. Trust me, the playing field will soon be level again. I will be bolting on a set of lightning heads and cams that have oversize stainless valves with high performance valve springs. I will be shifting at 6000 rpm and project 12 lbs at that shift point. With a forged short block, more boost can be had by going to a smaller pulley or higher rpm or both! These heads are having the chambers totally reworked with ported and polished intake and exhaust runners. The intake will be port matched to the new heads. Here is a shot of the chambers that have been roughed out and one cylinder with it's valves.

Never count the beast out of a drag race! I hope to be at Ennis this Sept to have some fun with Crash and Skid. No Matter who wins, we will have a great time! Tiron, thanks for the great piece!

 

Red, as a general rule the roots style will drop boost with rpm and the cent will gain boost with rpm. this is why roots makes bottom end.

as a good comparison I ran a 2002 HD. the one with the eaton112 L motor.

We left pretty much at the same time. I pulled him through every gear. 1l4.3 to a 14.8 96 mph vs. 92. Now if we put slicks on the trucks I believe he would get me out of the hole but I would still run him down.

We will not mention a 4.6 with ATI still in the tuning phase who popped a 400hp and 420+ torque curve.

I love the Magna. it is a very good blower, however listen to crash! he loved and still does the magna. He saw my post that started a flame war on my 97. He came over and I took him for a ride. about 3 weeks passed and He to had an ATI.

I have nothing but good things to say about this blower. Once I get the fuel deal figured out the sky is the limit.

Lets get a post of f150's and their times. so far I think I am the fastest screw. If not who is, I want to beat them hehe.

lets start a thread with make and model, mods, dyno's, and time slips, pro's and con's, likes and dislikes.

 

skidmarkracing (or anyone else),

How much power gains do you see below 3000 rpms? Is it still noticeable over stock (and if so how much)? Thanks.

Robert

 

Tiron,

Where have you been hiding? Thanks a whole lot, I feel alot better now.

Wittom,

Your right. I got a great deal and I had planned on using the 1,000 to 1,700 I saved for future mods. to make the "stock" magna set-up faster. As well as my truck is a daily driver and my main goal, as juvenile as it may sound is to.....white smoke my tires off the line! Or "launch" off the line and race someone for about 1/2 a block. However, I would like to go to the track at least once or twice or.....and get that photo of my truck looking like Neal's.. ha! Don't expect to win, but do not want to be two blocks behind either.

red screw 01 brings up a good point about 0-60 times. That is what I am looking for, you know, the 1/2 block races.

I think Flats Man is going to be able to show the full potiential of the Magna on the 4.6 but we must wait to see.

Skidmark's ideal for a thread is greatly needed !

I still think Crash! will blow away our MagnaChargers in the 1/4

I also think I am going insane reading these threads ha!