MagnaCharger vs. Ken Bell vs. Powerdyne
 

Okay,


I need instant boost. I need loads of torque. I need to blow Chevys away off the line. And of course, .....white smoke the tires! With some of the Neal "the hp Freak"/Mike Troyer mods. and a supercharger kit, my goal is to come as close as possible in torque and speed to a late model "stock" Lightning.

What is the best roots style supercharger kit? Magnacharger standard roots ($4,300 new) or Ken Bell twinscrew roots style ($3,800 new) ?

Wittom showed a site where a new Powerdyne centrifugal kit is $1,999. it says it is for 97-98 F-150 4.6L, but I am going to ask if the kit will work with a 99' 4.6L.

Which of the three kits will make my 99' 4.6L, auto. trans. supercab the fastest off the line?

Does the extra cost of the magnacharger or Bell kits equate to much more performance than out of the powerdyne? Is the extra cost really justifiable or is it just a preference issue?

Hi Crash,

Could you please email me at robertc128@hotmail.com

I am interested in an ATI or Magna supercharger for my 98 5.4L Expedition so please email me the prices. Also, do you know of any shops in the Los Angeles area that install these and approx. how much would I be looking to pay for the install? I don't think I would be able to do such a big install myself, but what do you think (I am not very mechanically inclined)? Also, what would shipping be on one of these to the LA area? Thanks in advance.

Robert

Which kit are you talking about, Crash? I would say that the Magnacharger install is only for experienced wrenches. Getting at the back bolts on the intake is a PITA and there are a lot of components to remove and reinstall. The ATI looks a lot easier.

Ian

I have the Kenne Bell supercharger...it is noted for it's instantaneous boost and torque. I have an 2000 excab longbed and with the blowerkit: supercharger ,fmu, boost a pump and a kenne bell chip ..it would blow away most opponents. The picture here is what the blower looked like right after installation. I have since added many mods.
As far as getting a new one or used one cheaper...check ebay..occassionally they have a kenne bell up for bids... one was sold last week.

https://www.f150online.com/galleries...1069-14460.jpg

The Beast From The East ...my gallery

BTBFord,

Do you think that your Ken Bell kit is faster off the line and has more low end torque, than a MagnaCharger system?

Iron Horse,

MM&FF did an article on the Eaton vs. Autorotor in the April issue. The KB has the ability to produce much greater boost levels, but running at lower boost levels (8 PSI or so) the Eaton produces slightly more at low revs.

The trade off is that is also runs out of efficiency much sooner. Even without an intercooler, the KB is running intake temps just as cool as the Eaton. The Eaton setup started loosing efficiency big time at 8-9 PSI.

If you're sticking to lower boost levels, this isn't a huge concern. There is supposed to be an intercooler in the works for the KB which would give it a bigger advantage.

As for the Powerdyne some claim they are trash. Many still get great times out of them and for the price if they do go south sooner you can pay for a rebuild and still have some change left in your pocket. I think that for the moment the quickest 1/4 mile time posted on the site is from a Powerdyne. ;)

Iron Horse, yes!In my opinion, I do believe the KB winds up much quicker than others and more low end torqure to get off the line. I did alot of research last year when I was looking for a blower and my intial thoughts were towards the Holley Thunder....but that system required alterations, including a shorter alternator-so I chose the KB. My boost level in the beginning was 10 lbs. There's an outfit in NY called Kennedy's Dynotune that specializes in KB and they have created their own water cooler system. I am not running one since it's really for continuous runs on the track. I do race...but only about once a month in the spring/summer season here in NY. Mostly, I 'play' during cruise nites or whenever some ashcan exhaust pulls up next to me and revs. :D
I have since removed the boost a pump, KB chip and FMU and did some other mods...check my signature that I'll add this time. The KB is now at 10.5 lbs boost...I had to get a slightly smaller pulley because I lost about 1.5 lbs due to the long tube headers. After my mods and a reprogammed flipchip...I'll 'play' with just about anything...hehe

Signmaster, so far the the quickest time on post for F150's is my 13.98 but that was on NOS and blower...14.4 without NOS...but...BEFORE my mods. I'm still in the process of tuning. Be prepared to see some much faster posting shortly :)

Crash,

Thank you for the info. , I emailed you late last night.

signmaster, BTBFord,

Is an autorotor the same as a twin screw roots style? Over the past several months, I have seen it mentioned that, the quickest 1/4 mile run was with a powerdyne. I also think someone was getting faster 1/4 times with a powerdyne and a 5 speed?

But, to be honest, I am trying very hard to act like a........... obnoxious juvenile and white smoke'em at the stop lights!!!! ha! I need the fastest first 50 yards off the line. You all know what I mean. Every once in a while, one the light turns green (in a non-residential area of course) you would like to be able to white smoke the tires and pull ahead of that chevy then slow down before the police take notice.

I thought the Magnacharger and its eaton third gen. M90 was the
best low end torque producing supercharger for a F-150, since the Lighnting used a eaton supercharger (4th gen. M112) and it was the fastest production truck. But, I see the twin screw roots (Ken Bell) and it is suppose to be more effecient, runs cooler air , puts less drag on engine and is cheaper than the eaton. But, every ford tech guy has suggested the magnacharger system with the intercooler, overall others.

I didn't count your NOS run since it was two power adders. I fully expect to see quicker times with your new mods... Really they are already healthy considering the trucks configuration.

Where do you plan on "drawing the line" on boost limits? In the MM&FF article they went to 18lbs on the 4.6!

Iron Horse,

The Autorotor is what is used in the Kenne Bell blowers. I imagine the main reason that most factory techs recommend the Eaton is due to the fact that it ships on stock trucks. The Magnacharger seems to be a fairly complete kit, but people are finding shortcomings with the package as well.

I have a friend who is a 'Stang fanatic. He bought the KB, his friend bought the Eaton. Guess who is making more HP without an intercooler? He has an intercooler in the works so that should make things more interesting.

I think by nature most people assume an intercooled system will outperform a non intercooled system. With the same blower, it always should. The test in MM&FF proved that the KB keeps temps so much lower that it is just as effective in dealing with heat as the Eaton is with the intercooler.

It should also be noted that if you push the boost levels on the Eaton you not only hit the limits of efficiency, but you may also have to drive the blower over recommended rpm limits to do so. The Autorotor leaves plenty of room to grow in both situations.

I just made a deal for a new MagnaCharger Kit !!!!!!!!!!!

Signmaster, the chip has been reprogrammed and the truck tuned. We were testing yesterday and the weather was 95 degrees! 10.5 lbs of boost were obtained. In the cooler weather, my max boost will be 12 lbs. That's the max now with this engine. As you noted, the KB does produce heat...intake heat was about 260 as opposed to the L's Eaton 160 degrees, according to my tuner's readings. I don't think i can do much more power out of this engine without doing some serious rod damage as the internals are stock. MORE power can be made...but at the risk of blowing the engine. Plans are in the making for a winter project( if the engine gets me through the summer) for a fortified short block...rods, pistons, crank...and possibly a new trick 4 valve head setup) It should last as the truck is primarily show and i race about once a month...though, hitting the blower @ 55mph+ when a potential 'kill' is next to me does produce more engine wear toll than just straight out 1/4 mile.
I plan to hit the track Friday night instead of tonight, because the weather will be a bit cooler...around 82 here in NY/NJ. Whatever happened to winter and spring??????
Thanks for the encouragement...and first testings will be done on blower only.

New pix in my gallery

Picking a supercharger is just as confusing as picking an exhaust. So many variables to consider. I just want the most low end torque and the fastest "off the line" launches for stop light to stop light running for my heavy 99 supercab,flareside with auto trans./overdrive and 3.55 rear gears. It would also be a plus to have enough torque to have the confidence to pass vehicles (but I guess they would all do that since the rpms are up at highway speeds?).

So the "autorotor" is the "twinscrew roots style", for a while, I thought Ken Bell had come out with another type that I was not familar with. From an engineered stand point, by design, the twin screw roots is suppose to be more effecient than a standard eaton roots. But, I can not find a brand new kit for 2500 or less.

How are you suppose to decide on the most costly aftermarket mod. you have ever considered buying, when you hear that the Lightning uses a proven and reliable eaton roots, a eaton roots is suppose to provide the most low end torque in a heavy truck, yet, the twin screw (autorotor) is suppose to provide more hp than an eaton roots and in the furture, auto makers will be going from eaton roots to twin screw roots, yet, the centrifugal Procharger can out run any roots style in the 1/4 mile, it may or may not have "lagg", and centrifugal Powerdyne truck on this site is one of the fastest, the magna and procharger are suppose to be the best quality, yet they are the most costly, the Ken Bell does not need an intercooler, yet the Powerdyne is about half the cost of most and is easier to install.

I am going crazy!

HI!... Now if I could only fabricate it so a KENNE BELL AUTOROTOR twin screw supercharger would bolt onto a MAGNACHARGER intake manifold and utilize it's intercooler set-up. Now that would be something. HMMM............ Now that's got me thinking........HMMM.......:D

Okay Neal, your post has just caused me to have brain "meltdown". ha! One of the reasons I am going with a Magnacharger is because you said that you were going with the Magnacharger.

Neal, good idea. I had a similar one the past 2 days with this heat here in NY. I know my KB is hot..and with this heat i'm losing about 1 1/2 - 2lbs boost...(still, it posted some impressive and encouraging times today...see my best time thread) so i wuz kinda thinking bout a small a/c condensor between fenderwall inlet and air filter...hmmmmmmm :p

HI!... Still thinking, ............HMMMMMM......:D

HI!... Well I'm still definately going with the MAGNACHARGER set at least 9PSI. I have quite a few mods that will be going with the charger but I'll keep those to myself for now. MIKE T and I are confident that we can make at least 150H.P (flywheel) with the MAGNACHARGER and other "SECRET" mods. My goal with the charger is to break 500H.P (FLYWHEEL). My current goal is to go 13.80's in the 1/4 N/A. Right now MIKE and I are working on a speical SUPERCHIP "FLIP-CHIP" for my truck. I'm also adding a 90mm MAF, 80MM TB, TRUE RAM AIR SET-UP with aluminum ram box, and a adjustable fuel regulator on a "98" 5.4 fuel rail. I'm confident that with these mods and my fuel problem being solved (hopefully) that this will put me into the very high 13's. I am going to install a custom built "NPP" 2400 stall converter and slicks. This will hopefully get me my 13.80's E.T. I still want to re-do my entire exhaust system this fall, which will include JDM long tube hedders, two high flow cats, "X" pipe and all stainless steel mandrel bent tubing. Then I'm going to install a fuel cell kit and AREOMOTIVE fuel system with billet aluminum fuel rails. Also this WINTER coming up I think I'm going to get SHM to totally to me a set of 5.4 "P.I" heads for the truck. They claim a 40H.P increase (FLYWHEEL). So with some luck we might be able to break the 380H.P (FLYWHEEL) # still N/A! Now that would be cool!!!!! And just think? I would still have to install the supercharger! :D

Neal,

What the ****!?! What does HMMMMMMM. Mean?

BTBFord,

What the****!?! Your times are faster than the recent, Truckin' mag. 1/4 mile truck races .......with a twinscrew supercharger!

I give up. I think I might just get a NOS bottle the size of my truck bed and blow my pistions to the moon! ha!

HI!... HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM:D :D

I knew it, I knew it! When the search function started working again, I got a clearer picture of what Neal was doing. He intends to have the fastest F-150 in the world, ever. By getting all he can out of the engine, then putting on a supercharger and then NOS.

If he breaks 500 hp, he will be able to beat a new "stock" Dodge Ram 500 hp coming out the later part of this year.

But, what will Neal do when another "Neal" starts modifying the Dodge Ram 500 hp?

and what does Neal mean by "secret mods."?

and when is Neal/Mike going to start selling NPP mods.?

most importantly, why is Neal and BTBFord both driving iron horse crazy with the HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?

stay tuned as this epic adventure continues! ha!

Neal,

That is exactly what they did in the MM&FF article. They used an adapter plate and mounted the KB on the intercooled setup that was on the car. :D

If I remember correctly the base car was a Saleen with the Speedlab intercooler/blower setup. Have to check to be sure though.

You may want to get this article. Very eye opening, especially if you plan to run over 8 PSI or so.

hmmmmmmmmmmm ..don't forget those rods n pistons.
Neal, you might be interested in watching the development of the trick 4 valve heads...hmmmmmm :p

BTBFord,

what trick heads? huh? huh? ha!

On a serious note, have your ever raced against a centrigfugal Procharger? If so, who won off the line? 1/8 mile? 1/4 mile?

HI!... IRON HORSE : If someone mods the new DODGE coming out and beats my fully supercharged F-150, I have no worries. I still have my "83" PRO STREET RANGER that makes 715H.P N/A and I'm planning on installing a BIG SHOT 250H.P nos kit on top of that!:D


BTB : As for the 4 valve head mods, that old news. I'm currently working on getting a set of experimental 5.4 3-valve heads that I will have fully ported/polished if I can get my hands on them.:D

Neal..those 3 valve heads sound mighty interestin! But now, back to the heat. I talked with Bob Kennedy today, of Kennedy's Dynotune in Niagra, NY. He's the vendor and installer of my KB last year. He told me the KB needs a half hour cool down time, it's definitely not an overlapper. But..he been using a water cooling injection system that takes off 60 degrees, and you can make run after run with the KB. Jet goes into intake before throttle body, and the pump can be installed behind headlights or in fenderwall. I may consider doing it...he says its a 2 hr install...so for me...probably 3 hrs. Also , he says the blozilla manifold gets more air and up to 40 more HP. hmmmmmmmmm
:D
ps..Neal, i was getting fuel starved too, but larger injectors, larger fuel rails and dual fuel pumps in the tank helped tons...top speed is around 140 my tuner tells me.
I figure here's the time to show how my truck improved since april of last year. Had to dig out da old timeslips.....
Truck fully loaded....only mods were jet chip(ugh), K&N intake n filter, and flowmaster force 2 catback. 16.7@84..stock tires.
With KB, boost a pump, fmu, K&N and flowmasters and TUNED kb chip(stock from kb is ultraconservative)...plus 200 lb tonneau cover, hitch and spare and junk in bed,28x10 slicks...weight @ englishtown scales with me was 5406....14.46 @94. With prototype wet NOS system ....13.98@102. April 18,/02.. 88 degree weather...no tonneau, nitto drag radials, no hitch, no spare,no tailgate...(figure weight @ 5150lbs ..im 150) gteched first run being best 13.46@102...2000 rpm lauch with about 6 ft stripes. Bottom line... heat heat heat ..costs me 2 lbs boost..sheeeesh.. whatever happened to spring?????

Iron horse..theres a possible race in the makings with one of Crash's friends who lives nearby that has an ATI. Crash will make the arrangements. I've had a short (1/8th)55+ hit da blower sprint with an L....had and kept a cab length on him. We stopped and chatted , and gave him the name of my tuner. My best track 60 foot time before mods was 1.9...not bad for 5400 lb truck..lotsa torque! Should be even better now.

3 valve heads?

Blowzilla manifold?

kb chip?

flowmaster force 2 catback?

715 hp Ranger? That must be one of the fastest trucks on Earth.

L.... ? Is that an ATI? If so, a twin screw roots did out run an ATI in a "real world" setting?


Man, I am so out of my league!

Iron Horse, you're a fun guy !:p
Get a script for some prozac or valium to help ya chill out...lol!
L = Lightning and they are eaton powered...and my sprint was on the roll. Also, off line launching depends on several things...torque converter, launch rpm, tires, and of course, driver skill and experience.

idea...get a 4 x4 with two engine/supercharger setup...one for each axle........lol.....maybe i need the valium! :o)


Neal...last year at Fords @ Englishtown...top runner was a wicked Ford Ranger dat spanked all the L's.

Iron Horse, isn't it crazy? I feel out of my league. I have learned a ton from these guys. I think I have a pretty good understanding of what I need to do to be "fast". When these guys talk about this stuff I see dollar signs spewing out my tail pipes!
If I only had the dough!
He we all can't all be the fastest. At least the fast ones are Fords!

wittom, on my build book...remember, my truck is a show truck too..i have pasted a summit racing sticker that says.."Built With My Children's Inheritance" .... ask my kid what I left him in my will and he will tell you.... DEBT!!!!! lol :eek:

BTBFord and wittom,

I finally figured out how to finance a supercharger. I made a deal with a guy that had a brand new (never installed) Magnacharger kit complete. Now, it appears that, he has either fell off the face of the planet, or has went back on his agreement. It was easy to go with the Magnacharger, because that is what I really wanted and the price was super low.

Now if that deal is gone as it appears, I have to actually "think" again, about what supercharger will get me the most torque and hp in consideration of furture mods.

The mechanical wizard, Neal is going with a Magnacharger and therefore it seemed an easy choice for me. But, BTBFord's twin screw outperformed a Lightning, yet, the ATI produces more hp and is beating magnas in the 1/4 mile. I am very aware that there are a multitude of variables to consider.

Therefore, lets assume that there are four (4) 99' F-150 XLT, supercab, flaresides with a 4.6L, auto.trans/overdrive with a 3.55 rearend. In this world, all four trucks have the same mods., same mileage, same everthing. One truck has the Magna, one has the ken Bell, one has the ATI and one has the Powerdyne. Which one is the fastest off the line? fastest 1/8 mile? fastest 1/4 mile? and which truck can white smoke the tires the best?

Yeah, that late night pot of coffee does not have a calming affect upon me. I can't believe it either but its true. ha!

IronHorse,IMHO, all things being equal, I gotta go with the KB....now pass me a cup of dat coffee, please! :D

BTBFord,

What is the lowest price, you have seen for a Ken Bell Kit?

iron horse

In my opinion and observations:
Off the line: Magna & KB, then ATI, then Powerdyne

Fastest 1/8: ATI, Magna & KB, then Powerdyne

Fastest 1/4: ATI (w/higher mph), then tie between KB, Magna, & Powerdyne

Smoke the tires the best: Magna & KB, then ATI, then Powerdyne


*On a side note, one thing to consider is that the KB & Magna offer more off-idle power, which equals to wheelspin. Off course, the centrifugal blowers will also contribute to wheelspin, but not as much as a roots or KB. For street & strip, the ATI wins my vote! The faster you spin the ATI, the more power it makes, especially at top end, which is where most races take place. I have never seen a race that only goes for 1/2 a block or so. Comprare the mph's of blowers, and the ATI will always have a better or higher mph per 1/4 mile than any other blower, something that plays a key role in racing.

Also, one other thing to consider & that always will make it better than other superchargers on the market for its price, is that the ATI comes with an intercooler. The intercooler, especially on our trucks where the i/c is mounted up front, plays a huge role in lowering intake temps significantly. One can take advantage of those cooled intake temps and play with more aggressive timing.

Another key factor that makes the ATI better is the fact that upgrading for more boost is just a phone call away with smaller size blower pulleys from ATI.

Just my 2 cents. :)

Iron Horse..the lowest I've seen new is 3600 for a polished KB...Last week on 3bay, one with 1600 miles on it went for 2500.

hey..where's dat coffee?:confused:

Iron Horse..the lowest I've seen new is 3600 for a polished KB...Last week on 3bay, one with 1600 miles on it went for 2500.

hey..where's dat coffee?:confused:

so, no one thinks the magna will win you the race, only spin your tires?!? But, the Procharger or Bell will win the race?

You know, when you think of a 1/4 mile in terms of 4 blocks, that is'nt that far.

But, I wonder why the Lightning still has an eaton roots type blower? Are there any plans to change to the twin screw or centrifugal?

I wonder if the Dodge Ram 500 hp with a viper engine is going to be supercharged and what with? Or does a v-10 viper engine not need a supercharger to generate 500 hp?

oh yeah, it is Sunday morning and I just made a fresh pot of coffee for BTBFord and I am drinking an extra cup in his honor...ha!