? for Mike
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Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 231
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From: Danville, Ar, USA
Man this is rough!
Well opinions from both sides and once again I'm stumped! Either way I go I'm sure I'll be very happy and I'll just have to do some more thinking until then. The question will probably linger until the day comes where I realize I'm equipped to get one! Thanks for all your opinions Mike and Skid they have given me a better perspective of both blowers and now it's just up to me to decide which one it will be, but I'm sure there will be plenty more questions to come until I can get one.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,262
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From: Oklahoma
You know what I think? (you probaly don't want to know but you know how I am... ha!)
I think Mike Troyer, Neal Newman, Derek and Mark should start their own Ford truck/SUV High Performance Publication!
This has been one of the best threads on any board I have ever read! I am confused as he**!, but I am enjoying being confused Ha!
If Neal has an extra 75 to 80 hp/tq. with no nos or supercharger, what are his expected final hp/tq numbers with a supercharger and or nos?
Here is a vague, unqualified, question, Can a stock 4.6L magnacharger "beat" a stock 4.6L Procharger off the line? What if I add some of Neal/Mikes mods and some of Mark/Derek mods to my 4.6L magnacharger set-up, how fast off the line and down the line will I be?
Oh yeah, I just made a deal for a new Magnacharger kit!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think Mike Troyer, Neal Newman, Derek and Mark should start their own Ford truck/SUV High Performance Publication!
This has been one of the best threads on any board I have ever read! I am confused as he**!, but I am enjoying being confused Ha!
If Neal has an extra 75 to 80 hp/tq. with no nos or supercharger, what are his expected final hp/tq numbers with a supercharger and or nos?
Here is a vague, unqualified, question, Can a stock 4.6L magnacharger "beat" a stock 4.6L Procharger off the line? What if I add some of Neal/Mikes mods and some of Mark/Derek mods to my 4.6L magnacharger set-up, how fast off the line and down the line will I be?
Oh yeah, I just made a deal for a new Magnacharger kit!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by iron horse; Apr 17, 2002 at 04:13 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,317
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From: Virginia Beach, VA
Originally posted by skidmarkracing
....snip....
People even question the fact that 9psi on the Magna does not produce as much HP as the ATI, I try to explain boost is not boost. Hell 9 psi out of a T3 and an air to air cooler would yield even more HP than the ATI. I have a hard time explaining how heat kills the motor and the ATI's key feature is the innercooler which is why they can run higher boost and claim a 60 percent increase.
...snip...
....snip....
People even question the fact that 9psi on the Magna does not produce as much HP as the ATI, I try to explain boost is not boost. Hell 9 psi out of a T3 and an air to air cooler would yield even more HP than the ATI. I have a hard time explaining how heat kills the motor and the ATI's key feature is the innercooler which is why they can run higher boost and claim a 60 percent increase.
...snip...
They quickly reached a point where more boost on the Magna was upping HP very little. The Autorotor being run through the same intercooler was running over 45 degrees cooler and producing more power.
The KB with the intercooler produced 311 Hp at 8.3 lbs of boost and 331 at 10 lbs. This was a 4.6 backed by an auto tranny. The most power the Eaton could muster was 318 HP @ 12.6 lbs of boost. At just 12 lbs the Autorotor was cranking 347 HP.
Considering that a cetrifugal blower is considered more efficient I don't find it so hard to believe that the 5.4 will make 350 HP with 9 lbs of boost and a good tune.
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
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From: Virginia
Hi Skid,
I've said what I have to say on this. As you may recall, this thread started out very simply with a customer of ours asking us for advice, which is where the focus of this thread should have stayed.
I've said what I have to say on this. As you may recall, this thread started out very simply with a customer of ours asking us for advice, which is where the focus of this thread should have stayed.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 538
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From: Wylie Texas
Mike,
I kinda take that as a stab.
You are correct you had a customer ask a question but I feel your answer was bias'ed. I just added the input of real HP numbers seen on the many trucks that I have worked on. If you took that in any other way I am sorry. I am not trying to sway anyone's decision on what type of performance mod to purchase. I am here to give an honest answer and my experience on how the products I have worked with have done in the real world.
I agree with you that the Magna is a torque monster, but I disagree that it is a better app for the street. I can post the dyno sheets of both Magna and ATI runs that I have done. Track numbers and dyno numbers has the ATI winning everytime(for me). Now if I am wrong on something here please speak up and show me where I am wrong, don't bitch or flame (this is for anyone). I am always willing to learn new things and if you can make a Magna turn out the same numbers as the ATI with the type of torque it puts out, that will be a monster I would love to try and tame.
Again these are my opinions, Mike has stated he likes the Magna. Like I said before this is what racing is all about. I am not trying to sway a customer, I am just trying to put the information out there so people can make an educated decision on the parts they buy. Hell we may even spark someone to disagree with both of us and come up with a new way to make HP and stomp us all.
Again Mike if I offended or caused some emotion other than one of well being for the education of our sport I am sorry.
Like the imortal party words:
LETS ALL HAVE FUN TONIGHT
LEST ALL **** CHUNG TONIGHT
maybe that was a song
, but it is still funny.
I kinda take that as a stab.
You are correct you had a customer ask a question but I feel your answer was bias'ed. I just added the input of real HP numbers seen on the many trucks that I have worked on. If you took that in any other way I am sorry. I am not trying to sway anyone's decision on what type of performance mod to purchase. I am here to give an honest answer and my experience on how the products I have worked with have done in the real world.
I agree with you that the Magna is a torque monster, but I disagree that it is a better app for the street. I can post the dyno sheets of both Magna and ATI runs that I have done. Track numbers and dyno numbers has the ATI winning everytime(for me). Now if I am wrong on something here please speak up and show me where I am wrong, don't bitch or flame (this is for anyone). I am always willing to learn new things and if you can make a Magna turn out the same numbers as the ATI with the type of torque it puts out, that will be a monster I would love to try and tame.
Again these are my opinions, Mike has stated he likes the Magna. Like I said before this is what racing is all about. I am not trying to sway a customer, I am just trying to put the information out there so people can make an educated decision on the parts they buy. Hell we may even spark someone to disagree with both of us and come up with a new way to make HP and stomp us all.
Again Mike if I offended or caused some emotion other than one of well being for the education of our sport I am sorry.
Like the imortal party words:
LETS ALL HAVE FUN TONIGHT
LEST ALL **** CHUNG TONIGHT
maybe that was a song
, but it is still funny.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,262
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From: Oklahoma
Lets settle this once and for all. Can you guys handle it!?! Well can ya!?!
I suggest to both "camps" a solution to this eternal debate. Each team take a stock 1999 F-150, supercab, flareside with a 4.6L, auto trans./overdrive with 3.55 rear gears and each team work their magic on their teams truck. We find a "midway" point racing strip and light'em up!
Oh yeah, my vehicle fits that discription perfectly, so, I would like to volunteer my truck for active service. In return, I get to keep all the mods. done for this glorious event. It would be a "win" "win" for everyone!
Okay, I have had too much coffee again, da**!
I suggest to both "camps" a solution to this eternal debate. Each team take a stock 1999 F-150, supercab, flareside with a 4.6L, auto trans./overdrive with 3.55 rear gears and each team work their magic on their teams truck. We find a "midway" point racing strip and light'em up!
Oh yeah, my vehicle fits that discription perfectly, so, I would like to volunteer my truck for active service. In return, I get to keep all the mods. done for this glorious event. It would be a "win" "win" for everyone!
Okay, I have had too much coffee again, da**!
Senior Member
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,317
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From: Virginia Beach, VA
Skid,
You are just proving that you haven't got a clue what you are talking about.... Really stick to facts would you?
EVERYBODY have fun tonight
EVERYBODY **** Chung tonight
Let's keep this straight.
I for one thought you put it out as your opinion with data to back it. The dyno don't lie.... I have heard my friend speak of people bagging on him for choosing a KB, but without an intercooler he is making more HP at the same boost level.
I still see no reason why a centrifugal with an air to air intercooler is being doubted so strongly.
My opinion is that low end doesn't mean nearly as much at the track. Does anybodys truck get down in the 2000 RPM range when it grabs the next gear. Mine doesn't and it has a tall gear.
You are just proving that you haven't got a clue what you are talking about.... Really stick to facts would you?
Originally posted by skidmarkracing
..snip...
Like the imortal party words:
LETS ALL HAVE FUN TONIGHT
LEST ALL **** CHUNG TONIGHT
maybe that was a song , but it is still funny.
..snip...
Like the imortal party words:
LETS ALL HAVE FUN TONIGHT
LEST ALL **** CHUNG TONIGHT
maybe that was a song
, but it is still funny.
EVERYBODY have fun tonight
EVERYBODY **** Chung tonight
Let's keep this straight.
I for one thought you put it out as your opinion with data to back it. The dyno don't lie.... I have heard my friend speak of people bagging on him for choosing a KB, but without an intercooler he is making more HP at the same boost level.
I still see no reason why a centrifugal with an air to air intercooler is being doubted so strongly.
My opinion is that low end doesn't mean nearly as much at the track. Does anybodys truck get down in the 2000 RPM range when it grabs the next gear. Mine doesn't and it has a tall gear.
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 51
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From: Henderson Nv. USA
Hi everyone.
I do like this post. Lots of good info. However I'm running a Vortech with a 10lb pulley and I'm wondering please if any of you have any numbers on the performance that I should expect? Relatively speaking of coarse. Thanks.
I do like this post. Lots of good info. However I'm running a Vortech with a 10lb pulley and I'm wondering please if any of you have any numbers on the performance that I should expect? Relatively speaking of coarse. Thanks.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,919
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From: Western Massachusetts
You know, for the people who can only afford to have one supercharger, I think that we will always wonder if we went with the right one. I think this discussion has at least narrowed the field. Fact is, if everyone has the same supercharger then we can't compare. So some of you go with the Magna and some of you go with the ATI. If you really want (I think Iron Horse had this idea) you can send me a '98 F150, 4.6 5-speed, short bed, and an ATI. I already have the Magna so I could do a side by side comparison.
I like the Magnacharger but I want more. How about 400hp. I have an SVT dealer calling telling me they have a red '01 L, with 14k on it. I'm tempted. Damn, I just spent all this time and effort (and dough!) on the Magnacharger and now........... I wish I could keep the '98 and get the '01. They would almost match (looks any how).
Nice job guys on keeping the tone good! We all learn from this kind of thing.
Tom
I like the Magnacharger but I want more. How about 400hp. I have an SVT dealer calling telling me they have a red '01 L, with 14k on it. I'm tempted. Damn, I just spent all this time and effort (and dough!) on the Magnacharger and now........... I wish I could keep the '98 and get the '01. They would almost match (looks any how).
Nice job guys on keeping the tone good! We all learn from this kind of thing.
Tom
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,262
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From: Oklahoma
wittom,
If a person took a stock 4.6 and did all the mods to external and enternal engine components/accessories/trans./rear end/ etc. that Neal/Mike/Crash/Mark has done/is doing/will do, I would think that the hp could go to 270 to 300. Then if you added a supercharger, it should go to 340 to 400 hp?
If a person took a stock 4.6 and did all the mods to external and enternal engine components/accessories/trans./rear end/ etc. that Neal/Mike/Crash/Mark has done/is doing/will do, I would think that the hp could go to 270 to 300. Then if you added a supercharger, it should go to 340 to 400 hp?
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,262
Likes: 0
From: Oklahoma
Crash!,
Alrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright!!!!!!!!! This proves that I am not totally insane or we all are! ha!
Oh man! I see so much debt..........that I gota hide in my future!
It's too bad that the speed demons on this site, could not work together to develop a nation wide network of agreements with local shops to install all these mods. as well as promote local strip races for daily drivers with these mods. on hand to sell and promote as well as dyno shootouts. As well as having a "menu" of performance combos/cost of installation on the internet, so that the consumer could review, plan, choose and schedule for each stage of performance as finances and insanity allows. economies of scale would allow for consumer prices to drop, while providing the "cottage" industry section a profitable outlet for their wares in a coordinated effort. thereby facilitating further reseach and design of aftermarket products, which in turn, would benefit me...I mean, I mean the consumer. It could be a virtually "all you can speed" buffet of highperformance!
okay, okay, that was a dumb ideal, someone keeps putting two coffee packets in the coffee maker!
Alrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright!!!!!!!!! This proves that I am not totally insane or we all are! ha!
Oh man! I see so much debt..........that I gota hide in my future!
It's too bad that the speed demons on this site, could not work together to develop a nation wide network of agreements with local shops to install all these mods. as well as promote local strip races for daily drivers with these mods. on hand to sell and promote as well as dyno shootouts. As well as having a "menu" of performance combos/cost of installation on the internet, so that the consumer could review, plan, choose and schedule for each stage of performance as finances and insanity allows. economies of scale would allow for consumer prices to drop, while providing the "cottage" industry section a profitable outlet for their wares in a coordinated effort. thereby facilitating further reseach and design of aftermarket products, which in turn, would benefit me...I mean, I mean the consumer. It could be a virtually "all you can speed" buffet of highperformance!
okay, okay, that was a dumb ideal, someone keeps putting two coffee packets in the coffee maker!
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,919
Likes: 0
From: Western Massachusetts
Well, I will say that I am not dissapointed with the Magnacharger. It dosn't matter if I get the best thing today because there will be something better tomarrow.
I really wasn't into performance untill I got this truck. I would like to have been more into performance but I never thought I could afford it. This truck, to me, is a start. It is a learning tool. I would like to better understand the concept of performance. I believe I will become competetive in the very near future. To be honest, I was thinking that I would figure out how to have a very fast...... (flame suit on) four banger. I think it's great that we see trucks with 300, 400hp. I would like to get 400+ with something like 2 to 2.5 (actually 2.3, I want a Ranger, I still want a Ford!). Yes, I know I've got my work cut out for myself, and perhaps it will never happen. I think it would be cool to do better in the quarter (with four cylinders) than a Lightning. Am I dreaming? Oh well.
I'm too damn busy to make it to the strip as much as I would like to. So I don't have the fastest truck
, but I do have a truck that is quicker than most of the autos around here.
In any event, thoes of you (like Iron Horse) will be quite happy with supercharging. The one to choose will be the hardest part.
I really wasn't into performance untill I got this truck. I would like to have been more into performance but I never thought I could afford it. This truck, to me, is a start. It is a learning tool. I would like to better understand the concept of performance. I believe I will become competetive in the very near future. To be honest, I was thinking that I would figure out how to have a very fast...... (flame suit on) four banger. I think it's great that we see trucks with 300, 400hp. I would like to get 400+ with something like 2 to 2.5 (actually 2.3, I want a Ranger, I still want a Ford!). Yes, I know I've got my work cut out for myself, and perhaps it will never happen. I think it would be cool to do better in the quarter (with four cylinders) than a Lightning. Am I dreaming? Oh well.
I'm too damn busy to make it to the strip as much as I would like to. So I don't have the fastest truck
, but I do have a truck that is quicker than most of the autos around here. In any event, thoes of you (like Iron Horse) will be quite happy with supercharging. The one to choose will be the hardest part.