Originally Posted by Low_e_Red

Just not enough. I found the set to be very mid centered, and serious lack of staging and detail.

Originally Posted by Low_e_Red

But you need the correct components and install to have that SQ come through. IMHO the Pioneers regardless of the install arent up to par.

So you got mid but do you have the highs to help keep things 20-20 flat? I never thought so. Matter of fact, I find them to be dry and overzealous around 1kHz. Its like taking the treble and turning it way way down.

CA&E is like everyone else said, a good read but will often give higher reviews to the people that advertise more often. Its simple business, cant blame them.

Originally Posted by 6spdcoupe

Quite few ...

Type of vehicle, genre of preferred music,amplification All preferences.



And their eyes. Lets go into a "well it did good at finals" debate. If you've followed the scene long enough then you would surely know by now politics play a HUGE role. Make competitions double blinded then we can rely on them for accuracy.



I know he knows how to get money into the magazines pockets. Larger advertisers hardly ever (IF Ever) see much in the way of negative reviews. Revenue would quickly diminish if they did.




But when compared SRP to SRP they Premiers dont seem AS good of a deal now do they? What a product can 'be had for' shouldnt really play a role in it's selection. The PRSs have quite nice midbass, but IMOP thats where it leaves off. The tweets lack upper end extension and 'airyness' . To me they just didnt have that 'sparkle' when really gotten on.

Originally Posted by 1bad86vmax

It's funny all these things you say about them , I have never had a SQ judge tell me these things . Let me guess , their ears aren't as good as yours .

Originally Posted by Low_e_Red

Whats that a Honda or a Toyota?

I know for a fact you have prolly heard them. I thought you were more of a sales rep not an installer still...?

Originally Posted by Tuff4rd

Well I do not consider myself a audiophile by anymeans but I do know quality. I have Klipsch RF series home system that I built and those things are awesome so I know what sounds good. I love SQ and balance and a sealed box which gives the bass I like.

Back in my younger days I was all PPI art series amps w 3 JLW6 in a sealed
box w/MB Quart comps.

Now that im older I really been away from the car audio scene but my current set up leaves much to be desired..

Im hopeing my new system will be CLEAN, powerful and TIGHT and more of a SQ system. I know there a much better choices out there but im on a budget.

From what I have read and what a few local installers have said, the Pio comps I got are a hell of a speaker for the $$. To be honest if I did not hear
so many good things about these I would have NEVER bought or even tought about Pionner never!!

Maybe the persons who do not like them have more of a keen ear and are more critical? Maybe the speakers sound better in some cars than others?
Maybe the install was half ***? Maybe these speakers really do suck?
I just have heard more praise on these than any other speaker that I was looking at...even more than Rainbow,MBQ. Polks any of them.

But I will give you my honest opinion on these when I install my system in the next few weeks.

Originally Posted by 1bad86vmax

The accusations about CS&E have to be true right ? Because we all couldn't live with ourselfs if a Pioneer component set actually did beat a set of Rainbows .

Originally Posted by Low_e_Red

I wouldnt be defensive. It doesnt matter that much does it? Don and myself arent thrilled with them. BIG DEAL.

I heard a set in a 2002 Ford F150 Supercrew on a KKR 350.4, IMHO they didnt like as much as I was giving them.

I put in a set in a 2004 Honda Civic in the kicks, again wasnt impressed.

But in almost every set of Pioneers I have heard are mid centered. Even, when behind cloth where I cant see I have picked out the Pioneers.

And anyways SQ judges dont tell you that, Why do you have a set of tweeters high up in the A-Pillar? If you didnt have a mid centered set, then you would over do the highs in that truck...

Now, dont run and get all ruffled about what I said, nothing personal but I did have a couple objections.

Originally Posted by Tuff4rd

You know what man, I guess it all boils down to what YOUR ears like and just cuz low_e & 6speed are not crazy about them..that does not make them right or you wrong.. its just there opinion..we all have our taste in the sound we like..

Im sure im going to like the pioneers, 95% of all the info I have found has been very +, the only issue which most said was on the tweeters but they still were very happy with them.

Once I have my gear installed, I will let you know what I think..

Thanks for all your input guys

Originally Posted by 1bad86vmax

Low E
I've been doing this for 25 years , nothing that you could possible say is going to Ruffle me . The tweeters in the A-pillar are simply to help raise the sound stage to ear level . SQ judges don't tell you that ???? Are you kidding me ???? Have you ever done a SQ competition ? I have , over 230 and counting . I always talk to the judge after he judges my vehicle . I will ask him what he thought of my system and what he thinks could be done to improve overall sound quality , as well as a couple of other things . If you have indeed competed , and you've never talked to a judge , that is your fault .

Originally Posted by Low_e_Red

I have competed multiple times. I just always put the tweeter dead under the mid to lift it. I really dont like the brightness off the glass. IMHO it throws odd angles at you.

I have spoken to judges before. I normally dont get more than abt 1-2 minutes but yes.

Originally Posted by 1bad86vmax

If you don't mind me asking , can you explain how putting the tweeter under the mid(lifts It). The reason I ask , is because over the years I have experimented with a variety of tweeter locations . Above , below , beside , you name it,I've put it there . If your putting your mid in the factory door location , and putting the tweeter below it , I hope you don't plan on winning any SQ competitions. You will be told your soundstage is waist high . You will either need kick panel mounted components , or something in the dash or A- pillar . I see alot of guys winning nowadays with components glassed into the the A-pillar . I think it looks gaudy , but hey to each his own .