Ok, I talked to a guy re: magnaflow exhaust and he said out of all the testing his company (a reseller) did that this is the only one that really boosted hp w/o the loss of low-end torque. I know you have to be careful listening to other's advice but I feel he was being honest since he doesn't have anything for my truck. He had nothing to gain because magnaflow has since quit making exhaust systems for pre-97 models. He suggested checking gibson as they probably lose less tq than most system. He said to absolutely stay away from flowmaster that from his company's testing they gained the 10 or so hp they claim but lost 20-30 ft lbs of tq. I definitely don't want to lose 1 lb of tq. I put a 3 inch cat-back flowmaster system on a 95 5.0 I used to own and I felt like I didn't gain a thing and maybe lost a little. I got more from the K&N fipk. Any ideas from anyone that really knows exhaust for the pre-97s??? I want hp but I don't want to lose tq.

 

I really doubt that flowmasters could cause that much of a decline in torque!!! In fact, I don't see how a muffler itself can really make such a huge impact on performance (for daily driven, smog legal vehicles). I find it hard to believe that on our trucks, any muffler could add more than 10 hp, or could take away more than 10 tq. I also don't understand how Magnaflow could stop making muffles for pre-97 trucks. With flowmaster, I have the 40 series. I can use this on my truck, a mustang, a Chevy truck, a Camaro, a newer truck, etc... I don't see how a muffler made for a different truck, but for the same kind of application couldn't work for your truck. It's not like a cam or a cylnder head that has to perfectly match up to integral components. It's basicly a pipe with some insulation around it, that can be welded to other pipe that can be custom cut to fit your proper length. Am I missing something here???

Any ways, I have "Flows." and I will always have Flows because I don't believe the small power increase of a Magnaflow muffler can justify the loss of that beefy, signature flowmaster exhaust note. Just my .02.

 

I think he meant they don't make a full cat-back prebuilt system anymore like you see with the Gibson sweptside. I'm sure you could buy a muffler from them and have a local shop build your pipe. The cat-back systems are engineered to maximize hp & tq. It's all in the size of the pipe, the restriction of the muffler, the number of bends (mandrel or otherwise), etc. It's part art and part science I think to get a good system that won't take away power.

I used to have a 95 w/5.0 and I loved the flowmaster rumble it had. I put on a 3 inch cat-back pipe with a 3 chamber flow and it sounded great.

I guess it would take a dyno to figure out if whatever system was put on actually helped or hurt. If I'm not mistaken you can even cut an inch or so at a time off the length of the pipe to 'tune' it. It affects the pulse wave of the exhuast but this varies at different rpms I believe so you could add to the top and lose at the bottom. I think I may take a chance on the gibson, at least they 'claim' to engineer for torque.

 

drm7,

I have a single side swept Gibson on my 5.0 and I've been happy with it. Like yourself I was concerned with losing low end torque. SOTP I don't feel I've lost any low end at all, and the improvements seem to be in the mid range.

As for the distributor comments, 30 lb ft is possible to lose but usually only in a certain rev range. In reality it's more that some systems will move the curve up more than others. What amazes me is that many companies claim to have extensive dyno testing with many different types of vehicles, yet when you ask they can't produce them.....

Another good option if you don't mind the looks is a Supertrapp. These things do work, I have had them on several vehicles. I have a buddy who is a 'Stang fanatic and he has found that with the Supertrapp he gained as much as 25-30 lb ft in the lower rev ranges while only costing a couple HP at higher revs over a wide open exhaust. His latest ride is a blower 4.6 and they have had similar results, often more flow resistance is giving a fatter curve.

I almost got one for my current truck, but they do get loud after the packing starts to go. I may still try one anyway.

 

how does your Gibson sound? How does it compare to Flowmasters? I used to have a 5.0 w/flowmaster and it had the perfect amount of sound without being intrusive in the cabin. I like a low rumble when idling and a good roar at WOT but I don't want it in the cabin. I tow a boat and don't want to get a headache from all the noise.

How long have you had yours and is it aluminized or SS? I'm thinking about the aluminized but have read that some people had rust problems.

 

I installed an Edelbrock cat back system in my truck, and was concerned about the loss of backpressure effecting my torque. I don't feel that I gained or lost anything off the line, but I do rev quicker, and have a higher top end now. Mine is a 2.5" dual pipe system from the muffler back. It sounds much better, too.

Take care,
-Chris

 

I "ditto" the Superstrapps in everything said. Yes they get loud. Yes they gain alot of power. I had one on my Escort w/headers...whoa.

 

What's this about an exhaust system that gives great power increases and gets really loud??? Sounds like the perfect setup!! Is it really expensive? If not, why don't more people have this?

 

For one thing, I'm not aware of any systems they have for trucks that are street legal in California. I haven't checked recently, though.

Take care,
-Chris

 

supertrapps are "mufflers you just stick on the end of your exhaust. They have diffussers which can be switched(& stacked) depending on how loud or where you want the power dialed in.

They look like chrome tubes with a Coke can bottom on the end of it. They are wicked loud. I believe summit has several different sizes. If you have dual exhaust you'll need 2 Supertrapps. $100+ each.

 

Oh... thanks. They sound really cool. Chances are, if something is really cool it's probably not legal here in California I've gotta move to another state!!!

 

They may have something that is legal here, but I kinda doubt it. For an exhaust system to be legal in Calif., one of the requirements is the ability at all times to be able to perform a sniffer test without having to remove parts, or go under the vehicle. Supertrapps have an end on them that would prevent this, which is why I doubt they are legal here. All it would take is a glance from a cop to see that you were in violation, and you'd be snagged. Still, you should look into it. If they have a part that has a CARB E.O. number, you might be okay.

Take care,
-Chris

 

drm7,

The Gibson is fairly mellow, similar to a Flow 50 series. Deep but not loud. The twin exit systems are a bit more throaty, but not Flow 40s loud. Deeper IMO, much like a slightly quieter MagnaFlow system.

I have the stainless system. Lifetime warranty for an extra $130 bucks. I usually keep my vehicles for a while so I thought it would justify the extra money.


Chris and others with questiona on SuperTrapps.....

They do make an end cap with a hole in the center. This should make it California legal for the sniffer concern. I know I bought (and had installed) two when I lived in CA. I do know that with the closed end cap it is CA Forrestry Dept approved as a spark arrestor. They have a web site, it may show if it has a CARB number or not.

As for sound..... I used to think the 5.0 'Stangs with Flows sounded great, until I heard a local 5.0 with two big SuperTrapps sticking out the back. Makes the Flow equipped cars sound like rice burners with fart pipes. Mean and nasty in a very good way!

They are very durable. All the ones I had were the regular steel and lasted a long time. The only one that went before I sold the vehicle lasted almost 10 years, and could have been repaired.

The first one I had was on a project bike that spent some time on the dyno. Changing discs does in fact change the torque curve. There is also a good thread in the exhaust forum by Flats Man with some custom exhaust traps he had made.

 

Hey guys, look what I found....

Go to:

http://www.supertrapp.com/Automotive...otive_page.htm

It says that all mufflers are C.A.R.B. approved and are smog legal!!!!

I'm going see if I can't get one for my truck. I'm surprised no one around here as one. Every other V8 here has flows, or some kind of amplified exhaust. Also, I wonder if I can have it set up like my flowmaster, where the exhaust exits underneath the truck. I don't want any visible tailpipes. The supertrapps may be loud and produce great power gains, but they sure don't look like much!

 

TF,

The regular steel shorties are about 18-19" long. I think they made a model with "hidden" discs, but if I remember right it's polished stainless and not cheap.

They also have disc only kits that weld onto a pipe. If you're not worried about sound control this would save you some bucks. It would also be lighter. The normal end of the pipe mufflers aren't real heavy, but check out your hangers and make sure they will handle the weight without it bouncing around.