CFR President Admits Libya Action Was For "Regime Change"

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Old Aug 22, 2011 | 11:29 PM
  #16  
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From: Among javelinas and scorpions in Zoniestan
Originally Posted by Frank S
The CFR has been influential in 'recommending' policies on our foreign policy for many decades (essentially since the 1920's-30's). A comprehensive study of those policies will show that they generally favor the United States taking an interventionist stance in world affairs. In fact, in their magazine, they even speak about how the President and other elected officials can 'transform' the general consensus in D.C. and sell these policies to the American people.

Off the top of my head, just last year I read an article in Foreign Affairs that recommend we should start negotiating with the Taliban in Afghanistan. Lo and behold, a few months later it is reported on CNN and Fox that we are doing so.

I would also recommend a visit to youtube to watch various people in various cabinet positions and various world leaders speaking in front of the Council on Foreign Relations. I haven't checked lately but I believe they also have videos on their www.cfr.org website. Let's just say it's very interesting to see what some people say when speaking before the Council.
Frank, I'm confused (and it won't be the last time). So, this is a "power behind the throne"? These guys are the ones dictating our foreign policy? You've found them to be totally trustworthy? Anyone who opposes them is doomed to fail?

Wow! I had no idea!

Thanks, Frank, for opening my eyes on how the world really works.

- Jack
 
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Old Aug 23, 2011 | 12:15 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by JackandJanet
Frank, I'm confused (and it won't be the last time). So, this is a "power behind the throne"? These guys are the ones dictating our foreign policy? You've found them to be totally trustworthy? Anyone who opposes them is doomed to fail?

Wow! I had no idea!

Thanks, Frank, for opening my eyes on how the world really works.

- Jack
Would you like me to cut and paste from Miriam Webster so you can see the difference between 'recommending' and 'dictating'?

Where does Frank say he finds the CFR totally trustworthy? Where does Frank say anyone opposing the CFR is doomed to fail?

You are putting words into Frank's mouth and intentionally misrespresenting his position. That hurts your credibility, not his.

Perhaps I'm the only one who thinks a Global Moderator stalking and baiting a member is a bit odd.

IMO, if a Global Moderator wants to post as a member, then turn off the Global Moderator sign. Words have meaning.

Sign in under another name if you must. Pretty hard for the membership to know when a moderator is not a moderator.

Moderators harrasing and patronizing the members is not exactly conducive to an open and useful dialog. When some see how the moderator treats Frank, they are less likely to post.

Frank finds an interesting and timely website with some in depth content, and he gets mocked and taunted by the moderator for his efforts. Nice.
 
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Old Aug 23, 2011 | 12:50 AM
  #18  
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From: Among javelinas and scorpions in Zoniestan
Originally Posted by dirt bike dave
Would you like me to cut and paste from Miriam Webster so you can see the difference between 'recommending' and 'dictating'?

Where does Frank say he finds the CFR totally trustworthy? Where does Frank say anyone opposing the CFR is doomed to fail?

You are putting words into Frank's mouth and intentionally misrespresenting his position. That hurts your credibility, not his.

Perhaps I'm the only one who thinks a Global Moderator stalking and baiting a member is a bit odd.

IMO, if a Global Moderator wants to post as a member, then turn off the Global Moderator sign. Words have meaning.

Sign in under another name if you must. Pretty hard for the membership to know when a moderator is not a moderator.

Moderators harrasing and patronizing the members is not exactly conducive to an open and useful dialog. When some see how the moderator treats Frank, they are less likely to post.

Frank finds an interesting and timely website with some in depth content, and he gets mocked and taunted by the moderator for his efforts. Nice.
Dirt Bike, if I had the power to do what you suggest - sign in under a different name, turn off the "moderator designation, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But, the forum rules prohibit the first and I don't have the power to do the second.

So, according to you, I'm not allowed to have an opinion?

It may seem I'm "stalking" Frank, but with his Sig Sauer, I doubt he has much to worry about from the likes of an old unarmed guy like me.

I'm hardly "mocking" and "taunting" Frank as you say. I'm just asking him to supply a fact or two to support his position, as I have done for mine.

If it will make you happy, I'll gladly change my question to: "These guys are the ones recommending our foreign policy?" Is this some "secret" group we don't know about?

As far as the rest, just reread what Frank posts. He's very clear in his support of the CFR.

And, I notice you were not inhibited by my posts. Why do you think anyone else with a spine would be?

- Jack
 
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Old Aug 23, 2011 | 08:39 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by dirt bike dave
Would you like me to cut and paste from Miriam Webster so you can see the difference between 'recommending' and 'dictating'?
Where does Frank say he finds the CFR totally trustworthy? Where does Frank say anyone opposing the CFR is doomed to fail?...<snip>....
I will point it out, as I seem to have the same questions on what real recommendations are and what is being pointed to as their recommendations becoming policy more often then not, to the point that when the CFR speaks, their opinion end in blood being spilled around the world.
Originally Posted by Frank S
Anyone who knows anything about the power brokers in D.C. knows who the President of the Council on Foreign Relations is. In fact, many people in Presidential cabinets are members of the Council. His "opinion" holds much weight.

If you read their own magazine, "Foreign Affairs", you will see what happens in the world months/years in advance. I would suggest that you become a subscriber.
Originally Posted by Frank S
With all due respect Jack, if you knew the political clout/power the President of the CFR has, you would know that even an op-ed from him carries much weight.

Next time you're on google, search for a list of current/former members of the Council. When these men/women throw their "opinions" around in closed door meetings, many times their "opinions" end in blood being spilled around the world.

The gravity of their "opinions" is not lost on me.
Originally Posted by Frank S
The CFR has been influential in 'recommending' policies on our foreign policy for many decades (essentially since the 1920's-30's). A comprehensive study of those policies will show that they generally favor the United States taking an interventionist stance in world affairs. In fact, in their magazine, they even speak about how the President and other elected officials can 'transform' the general consensus in D.C. and sell these policies to the American people.

Off the top of my head, just last year I read an article in Foreign Affairs that recommend we should start negotiating with the Taliban in Afghanistan. Lo and behold, a few months later it is reported on CNN and Fox that we are doing so.

I would also recommend a visit to youtube to watch various people in various cabinet positions and various world leaders speaking in front of the Council on Foreign Relations. I haven't checked lately but I believe they also have videos on their www.cfr.org website. Let's just say it's very interesting to see what some people say when speaking before the Council.
Now keep in mind a few things

1. Frank and myself fall on the same side of Left-Right and generally speaking have the same view on govt policy, laws and regulations ( i.e. how far to the right we fall ). This it is almost scary how much we mirror each other on this topic, there are deltas in it.

2. Frank and myself do not agree on 1 non political topic at all. Enough said on the topic, just pointing how we have a polar opposite view on at least 1 topic.

3. Jack and I differ on quite a few topics, and agree on others ( a 60-40 in favor ). The bias of the MSM and the performance of the POTUS are 2 that come to mind that we do not see eye to eye on. Some policy work we do agree on

4. I prefer to post facts from the source ( i.e. Govt web site ) and if I am presenting an opinion ( or unproven fact ) I try to make sure this is blanketed with works like supposition, opinion or speculation.
Frank will post similar to this with phrases that makes it sound as if it is common sense to know something, not providing any material on it.
Up until this year, Anti Hydrogen atoms had not been created long enough to be studied, and I would bet at least 1 doughnut that 80% of the population has not heard of this. I would not post it as common sense, on a topic that included anti hydrogen atoms, I would include the link to CERN.
This topic, there is only the predicting the future by the past type of proof of how much power the CFR has.
If the reader is not lead to infer something by the posts, why the quotes around recommending and opinions. I use quotes around the word fact, when posting about the MSM, as this is a loose use of the word in the cases I am posting about.
The CFR might have a group of people that have common sense, and it takes the morons in DC a bit of time to come up to speed on the topic.
If this is the case, it just proves ( yet again ) how broken our govt is, where a foreign relations committee takes 6 + months to get to the same point as a magazine.

As to stalking and baiting a member, not exactly.
That is your opinion on the subject. If you consider Jack to be stalking and baiting a member, you might want to take a step back and look at the debate, and a valid questing by Jack.
Again, I had the same question, and raised the same issues with what was being posted, does that mean I am stalking and baiting a member also ?

If it is only due to this position on the site, that is not being fair to Jack.
For him volunteering his time, to make sure the site you use is in good order, his reward is limited access to the site ( i.e. cannot debate in GD ) ?
The hours of verbal pistol whipping a Mod has to put up with behind the scenes is not fun at all, at least allow him to enjoy his off time as he see fit, pending he is following the rules posted by the site.

If you feel a moderator cannot, while following the site rules, participate on the site like a normal member, then you might see less people offer their time for free on the site.
Without the man hours to do the work, areas like GD and P&R might go by the way of the dinosaur, to reduce the work load.
This is just my opinion on that part of the topic, as I see myself doing the same thing, but you are only stalking and baiting the moderator about it.
 

Last edited by SSCULLY; Aug 23, 2011 at 08:42 AM.
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Old Aug 23, 2011 | 09:21 AM
  #20  
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If my posts sometimes come off as making someone feel like they are ill-informed or should know something that they don't, I apologize. That isn't my intention at all.


However, I will not apologize for being a bookworm.
 
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Old Aug 23, 2011 | 09:24 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by dirt bike dave
And another potentially interesting thread dies after the moderator badgers the member.

To summarize:

Frank finds an interesting article about a timely topic. He decides to share, and also questions whether the media will cover the angle presented by the author.

The author uses the term 'in fact'. Frank characterizes this as an admission in the thread title.

The mod is adamant that the author is expressing an opinion, and not admitting to anything. Mod questions the author's credentials and the validity of his opinion. Then the mod throws in a non-sequitor from the POTUS.

In response to the mod's questions regarding the validity of the author's opinions, Frank attempts to establish the credibility of the source.

Unsatisfied Mod criticizes Frank for sidestepping and drawing erroneous conclusions.


So did I miss anything?


BTW, thanks for the link, Frank. It gives food for thought, and I'm sure I would not have seen it if you had not posted it here.
It is obvious that Jack is speaking here as a "private citizen" and not a mod. This Red herring post does more to reinforce his point.

CFR is another think tank, there are many.
 
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Old Aug 23, 2011 | 12:48 PM
  #22  
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From: Among javelinas and scorpions in Zoniestan
Originally Posted by Frank S
If my posts sometimes come off as making someone feel like they are ill-informed or should know something that they don't, I apologize. That isn't my intention at all.


However, I will not apologize for being a bookworm.
Never apologize for being a bookworm. I sure don't.

And Frank, if the apology at the top was directed to me, there's no need. I don't feel at all ill-informed. (What's the saying: "Ignorance is bliss?")

- Jack
 
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