So what is the bottom line, Fordman and J-C?

If I know how to drive and have a manual tranny in a new F150, am I tempting fate by towing 4,000+ pounds? Or am I totally safe; Ford under rates the truck because some people Fordman hates can't figure out how to drive a manual, and Ford wants to sell more automatics?

BTW, the brakes, suspension, springs, cooling systems, etc... are the same for auto and manual F150's, aren't they?

For what its worth, I've towed about 2,000 pounds with a Ranger 5 speed, no problem. Hard to beleive any F150 couldn't be trusted to tow more.

 

If you will note, Ford only makes certain suspension packages available with the automatics and if memory serves correctly, the heavy duty cooling package is only available with an automatic (more rows in the radiator). The standard shift F150 can be trusted to tow PLENTY. You have to use a little common sense, though. Start out in first, limit your speed, etc. People get into trouble when they try to tow or haul things that'd make a 3/4 or 1 ton sweat. I would think any M5OD equipped F150 would realistically be capable of the same tow ratings of the older 1/2 ton F series with the Warner T-18 (M5OD and T-18 rated same). I had a '68 with a 300 c.i.d. six cylinder/T-18 combo and a 3.55 LS. Previous owner used it to haul a two horse rig to rodeos throughout California, no problem. I bought it and drove it another 3 years and hauled/towed mostly light to medium loads up to around 2,000 pounds. No clutch or transmission failures. I had a factory shop manual for the '68 but don't recall the ratings for that year. At any rate, I'm sure the tow ratings were higher than current figures and were higher than now through about '80 or so.

[This message has been edited by Ford man (edited 03-14-2000).]

 

And as I said before, there were NEVER any of these criticisms of the F150's capabilities until the "new" breed showed up. All of a sudden, nothing's quite good enough. Ford's been using transmissions with the same ratings as the M5OD (real name: Mazda R2) for well over thirty years with no problems or complaints until all of the non-pickup people decided that it's "fashionable" to own a faux work vehicle. Probably the same ones that wear designer Carhartts (no one wanted those dirty work clothes, but make 'em in an effiminate color and it's "cool" now). Ford is as much to blame for this BS as anyone, with the Lightning, pickups equipped like Cadillacs and Lincolns. All of a sudden our work pickups aren't strong enough for the yuppie set. That's strange: we've been using them for WORK for years, no trouble. If you have a big job, you get bigger tools. If you have a big load, you get a bigger pickup. Why is it blue collar working folks know this, but it comes as some kind of a phenomenom to the "new" breed?

[This message has been edited by Ford man (edited 03-13-2000).]

 

Y'know, I have to admit that It's true that yuppies can buy whatever they want simply because they have the money and an idea, but you have to remember that most of'em want SUV's and not pick-ups. True, newer pick-ups (especially the funky one's coming out nowadays) appeal to the yuppie, but anyone can see through that a mile a way. I can't help grinning to myself every time I pull up beside a decked out super-pickup ready for 'off-roading' and the dude in the driver's seat is wearing a suit. BUT, on the other hand, I can almost accuse the same for myself. I'm a teacher, so do I honestly need a full size pick-up? Truth be told, no, I don't. I do the occasional rennovations and painting in my neighbourhood, but I could easily do that with a mini van. I know I'm not a yuppie, nor am I a "blue collar" worker (if that person exists anymore). I do know that I love my truck, and I work hard for the dough to pay for it. I don't know where I'm going with this, but I think it has something to do with the motive for buying a truck. You have to remember it really is only a vehicle, not a socio-political statement(ok, maybe indirectly it is). Let the yuppies buy their full sizes, they'll be selling'em soon enough; just look at all of the dents they put on'em from not knowing how to back up or park !

Sorry for the long posting.....



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98 F150-XL, Black
2WD 4.6L 5spd. Triton V8
RegCab, Shrt WB, Styleside 3.08
Air, Rear Slider, Ford Duraliner Boxliner,
profile+ wrap-around bug deflector,
Tint: 5%(#4)Rear
35%(#2)Sides

My Site
www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Port/3091

 

Whats really odd is that I have read in other posts that a F250 isn't much if any more $$$ than an F150 since the "new breed" of truck owners came out.
Wish I would have known that before I bought my F150.
I might get flamed for this but I think the supercab and crewcab F150s have greatly contributed to the "new breed" of truck owners.
Not to say there is anything wrong with a supercab (I wouldn't mind having one) but thier avalibility has caused the yuppies to start buying pickups as family vehicles.
Hell why wouldn't they with the cost of sedans these days?
You get so much more for your $$$ with an F150.

 

I get aggravated with some of the BS I see here from others (not this thread or anyone who's posted thus far) and some of the BS pulled by Ford and some of the dealers in regards to options offered and trying to buy a pickup equipped with even a moderate amount of work in mind (that's a BIG aggravation for me). That's why I've vented so much here as of late. Yes, blue collar workers still exist (I think I was blue collar when I left work this morning). Anyway, back on subject. Got some numbers out of a '96 F Series owner's manual and remember: the M5OD was used for the F150 and F250LD that year and for automatics, the E4OD, C6, and 4R70W are all listed (no specific applications). With a 3.08 rear end, the F150 is rated at 2300 pounds trailer weight for both the 4.9L and 5.0L 5 speed F150s and 2300 pounds for the 5 speed 4.9L and 5.0L F250LD with that particular rear end. With a 3.55 rear end and 5 speed, the 4.9L and 5.0L F150s are rated at 3600 pounds trailer weight, AND the F250LD is only rated at 3200 pounds trailer weight! With an automatic (no specific applications) the 4.9L F150 is rated at 4700 and 5700 pounds for the 3.08 and 3.55 rear ends, respectively, the 5.0L F150 is rated at 4700 and 7100 (yes, 7100), and the 351 is rated at 5700 and 7700 for the 3.08 and 3.55 rear ends, respectively. According to all of this, the 4.2L is on par with the engine it replaced with the standard shift transmission and slightly better with the automatic 4.9L. The 4.6L is LESS effective with a standard shift transmission than the 5.0L it replaced but quite a bit better than its predecessor with an automatic. I noticed in the '96 manual, and it may be in the '97 and newer manuals, but for towing recommendations Ford advises NOT to use 5th gear and not to exceed 45 mph in hilly country (judgement call there). Bottom line, I believe the M5OD/Mazda R2 is as strong and trouble free a transmission as any Ford has used in 1/2 ton pickups over the last thirty years. I still believe Ford has replaced too many clutches and transmissions due to people not heeding any precautions and has downgraded these transmissions to cover their butts.

 

Saying that manual transmissions are not good for towing is a joke. I have towed a 7,000 pound truck on a 16' car trailer for over a 1000 miles with my 1998 F-150 SC 4.6 V8 truck with a 5 Spd. The truck has absolutely no modifications, the stock 3.55 LS axle, and it towed it without any complaint. The 5 spd. has always been the king for towing, and the only reason Ford says different is because of rookies smoking the clutches out of their trucks and costing Ford too much on warranty repairs.

 

EXACTLY! That's what I've said all along.

 

Very much agreed. Its all in the operator. Ford had no choice. Too much variation and too much chance for error in these "ratings" in a manual tranny. That is why I distrust these "ratings" in anything other than an automatic. And I am skeptical of these as they need to show good ones to compete. The auto takes some of this variation out and therefore is more predictable and easier for them to rate. I am leaning towards using a fudge factor in my auto of 20 - 30 % under the rating to be SURE!

 

That's interesting info you dug up, Fordman. Back in '98, I went looking for a safe, useful six-passenger vehicle with a manual transmission and - guess what! - there ain't any except trucks. I don't pull much but a small fishing boat or load the bed with anything but crushed stone and lumber.

Like FordF1504X4, I towed a race car on a flat-bed trailer, but it was behind my '73 F-100 that had a 240-cube six and three on the tree. Never had a problem and never even thought about towing capacity. Of course, I knew what I was doing, at least driving a truck if not with my life back then.

If you don't slip the clutch and if you know what you're doing and if you don't NEED to go 70 mph up the mountains, I think you could tow a freight train with a 5-speed. And like FordF1504X4, I think it's Ford execs worrying about warranty claims from know-nothings pulling 5th-wheelers that results in the low tow ratings for 5-speeds.

If you have any doubts, do what Tina did and buy an SD-PSD with a 6-speed.

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Black 2000 SC XLT short-box. 4.2 V-6, 5-speed, 3.55 Limited Slip. Side steps, CD, remote entry, FORD box liner. Add-ons: Older Windstar driver's side wiper blade (with the air scoop, because I don't slow down when it rains), back-up beeper, "f150online.com" sticker and snazzy Tweetie Bird floor mats.

My third F-series: '73 F-100, '98 F-150 and '00 F-150. Great trucks!




[This message has been edited by Shifter (edited 03-15-2000).]

 

The Warner T-18 is rated the same as the M5OD/Mazda R2. Now, I don't recall any exact numbers, but my '68 factory shop manual set most definitely rated the T-18 as a medium to heavy duty transmission, the three speed (Warner? Spicer? New Process?) as light duty, the C4 as a light to medium duty transmission (equivalent of the AOD), and C6 as a medium to heavy duty transmission. There were also heavy duty Spicer, Warner, and New Process standards available as well.

 

I've obviously come to the right place for this question! So that I know, what are the exact no-no's for towing then? what speed should not be exceeded, etc. I'm only towing a 14 foot bow-rider with a 60hp evinrude, and I don't plan to pull it too far. Originally I was more concerned with the max. for my step bumper until I found out that it was rated higher than the truck. So what can I do to avoid the 'new breed' (sorry, couldn't resist )mistakes? hey, I have to learn somehow.


------------------
98 F150-XL, Black
2WD 4.6L 5spd. Triton V8
RegCab, Shrt WB, Styleside 3.08
Air, Rear Slider, Ford Duraliner Boxliner,
profile+ wrap-around bug deflector,
Tint: 5%(#4)Rear
35%(#2)Sides

My Site
www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Port/3091

 

I would start in first, hold my speed to 55 mph (I'm tired, my brain can't do the metric conversion), and stay out of fifth. I would shift as high as possible in order to avoid any unnecessary downshifting. Since you're towing on a regular basis, it wouldn't be a bad idea to add a Draw-Tite receiver hitch.

 

When we ordered our truck, it was to TOW. We opted for the standard transmission but a test drive showed that my wife could not work the clutch without pain - she'd had knee surgery on her left knee some time ago and it still isn't right.
We switched to the 4R100 automatic and are happy with the truck's performance and capabilities.
When adding a fudge factor to your manual tranny truck, you'll probably be fine as long as you don't exceed the ratings for an auto tranny.
The GCVW becomes very important when towing. A heavier truck will be safer than a lighter truck towing the same load. If you buy your truck with TOWing in mind, I would strongly suggest a Super Duty. You get a whole lot mure truck for your $$$ and won't have to worry about how much it'll tow.
My trailer has a 1920# hitch weight with a 12100# GVW. I am NOT at maximum capacity.
Happy towing

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1999 F-250 XLT Super Duty Crew Cab Long Bed
V-10, Automatic 4R100, 4.30 Limited Slip.
GVW = 6700# Towing Capacity = 13,300#
4 Wheel ABS disks + Reese 15K hitch
Dark Hunter Green. Ford Running Boards.
Grey Rhino-Liner. Captain's Chairs. CD+Tape
Polished Stainless Steel Wheel-well Molding http://members.home.net/jchartier/jnctrk.html

 

Spoke to a reputable source concerning the Mazda R2 this morning. Blumenthal's Manufacturing, a very established and nationwide rebuilder and manual transmission parts source located here in Oklahoma City, generously answered a few questions concerning the R2 transmission. Guy said it was a good transmission, very reliable, but not as strong as the T-18, primarily due to the overdrive and first gear not being low enough (T-18 was direct drive making it stronger). Said it will handle any of the Ford eight cylinder engines in the 1/2 tons. Said he hasn't seen any failures from towing, typically they will last 150,000 to 160,000 miles before they need worked on, regardless if they've ever been used to tow. I asked him about the Gertrag 5 speed used in Chevrolet 1/2 tons. He told me it's a piece of sh**! Not strong at all, always crapping out. He told me 99.9% of the trouble associated with the R2 is from being run low on oil. He said he'd heard all of the negative BS about the R2 and said everything had been caused by running the transmission low on oil (said no matter what anybody's said, their problem was from running it low on oil). Said you really need to check the oil level and replace according to schedule and you'll be just fine. Most importantly, he said this transmission will adequately handle a 5,000 pound load, just stay out of fifth gear over 2,000 pounds AND KEEP IT FULL OF OIL!! He really emphasized the oil in our conversation. At any rate, this is a very reputable outfit, they sell nationwide and have been in business since 1949. I had them rebuild the transmission in my '65 Chevrolet C10 (a GM SM318, MUCH lighter duty than an R2), so I have first hand experience with their work and know they KNOW transmissions.