HAHA!!

We got an insurance guy, a body shop estimator and a body technician... I think we got all the bases covered.

I think that should say alot if the owner of that one facility took the time to explain things to you and show you around his shop. To me that shows he has nothing to hide and takes pride in what he does. There is alot you can tell about a shop just from walking in the front doors. If people are atentive and empathetic to your needs I feel that usualy translates to the type of work they do. Although, sometimes even a good shop can have a hack technician. They usualy dont last long though.

 

This is turning into a really interesting discussion. It really is something to get a little bit of everyone involved on this. Here is what I have as far as estimates go:

Insurance Quote (Erie Insurance)

Repair facility: Asheville Ford Collision Center
2004 Ford F150 4x2 supercrew XLT 8-4.6l-fi 4d p/u red/gold int: Grey (it's beige, but I don't think that matters)

1. FENDER
2 Blnd RT Fender w/o Wheel opening Paint = 1.1
Molding
3. R&I RT Nameplate "F150 XLT TRITON" Labor = .2
4. FRONT DOOR
5. Repl USED RT door assy +25% QTY: 1 343.75 Labor - 1.4 Paint= 3.4
6. RT Clean, lube & adjust
linkages & regulator
7. clean or recondition parts or assemblies Labor =2.0
8. R&I RT R&1 mirror Labor = .3
9. R&I RT upper molding regular, Labor =.3
super cab
10. R&I RT R&I trim panel Labor = .5
11. R&I RT handle, outside w/ keyless Labor = .4
12. REAR DOOR
13. R&I Rt. Upper molding Labor =.3
14. Repl used rt door assy; super cab qty:1 $250.00 Labor = 1.1 Paint 3.2
+25%
15. overlap major non-adj. panel Paint = -.2
16. RT Transfer door glass super Labor = .6
& Crew Cab
17. Clean or recondition parts or Labor = 2.0
assemblies
18. R&I RT Handle, inside Labor = .3
19. R&I RT R&I trim panel Labor = .5
20. CAB
21. Rpr RT Uniside assy s Labor = 8.0 Paint = 5.5
22. Blnd back panel Paint = 1.3
23. Repl Running Board QTY: 1 $321.43 Labor = 1.0
24. PICKUP BOX
25. RPR RT Side panel w/o whl opng Labor = 3.0 Paint = 3.4
26. Overlap Major Adj. Panel Paint = -.4
27. Clear Coat Paint = 2.5
28. Repl Set Back Box assy QTY: 1 Labor = 1.5
29. R&I Tonneau cover snapless type Labor = .3
30. Repl Four Wheel Alignment QTY: 1 $89.95
31. Restore Corrosion QTY: 1 $10.00 Labor .1 Paint = .1
Protection/rust proof
32. Cover Car/Bag & Mask QTY: 1 $10.00 Labor = .2
33. Electronics Reset QTY: 1 Labor = .5
34. Flex Agent (Per Panel) Qty: 1 $12.00
35. Hazardous Waste Removal Fee Qty: 1 $5.00
36. Frame/Unibody Setup/Gauge Qty: 1 Labor 2.0 F
37. Repl pinstripe Tape QTY: 1 $12.50 Labor .2
38. Repl Mask Jambs, per panel QTY: 1 Paint = .2
39 Repl Mask Jambs, per panel Qty: 2 Paint = .4

Line 5 description: door, rt front 2dr, mw,ml,red,06-04, gry, 1.5 top edg, heritage (straight belt line) man R. (Mine isn't a heritage)

Parts: $915.18
Body Labor: 25 hrs @ 42/hr = $1050.00
Paint Labor: 20.5 hrs @ 42/hr = $861.00
Frame Labor: 2.0 hrs @ 50/hr - $100.00
Paint Supplies: $550.00
Sublet/misc.: $139.45

Subtotal: $3,615.63
Sales Tax: $70.93

TOTAL: $3,686.56



ASHEVILLE FORD ESTIMATE (APPARENTLY THE SHOP ERIE USED)
1. FENDER
2. Rpr Fender w/o wheel opening Labor = 2.0 Paint = 2.2
molding
3. Add for Clear Coat Paint = .9
4. Add for Two Tone Paint = .9
5. R&I RT Nameplate "F150 XLT TRITON" Labor =.2
6. FRONT DOOR
7. Repl RT Door shell regular & crew Qty: 1 @ $818.75 Labor = 4.5 Paint = 3.4
cab to 12/1/03
8. Overlap Major Adj. Panel Paint = -.4
9. Add for Clear Coat Paint = .6
10. Add for Two Tone Paint = .9
11. Add for power units Labor = .4
12. CAB
13. Repl LKQ RT dr, ctr plr & rkr +25% Qty: 1 @ $562.50 s Labor = 14.5 Paint 9.0
14. Repl RT Running board aluminum Qty: 1 @ $536.93 Labor = 1.0
15. ELECTRICAL
16. R&I antenna mast Labor = .1
17. R&I Base cap Labor = .3
18. REAR DOOR
19. Repl Rt Door Shell Qty: 1 @ $728.17 Labor = 4.5 Paint = 3.4
20. Overlap Major Non-adj panel Paint = -.2
21. Add for clear coat Paint = .6
22. Add for Two tone Paint = 1.0
23 Add for power units Labor = .4
24 PICK UP BOX
25. Rpr RT Side panel 6.5 foot bed Labor = 3.0 Paint = 3.2
w/o whl opng
26. overlap major adj. panel Paint = -.4
27 Add for clear coat Paint = .6
28. Add for two tone Paint = .8
29. Repl Cover Car for overspray QTY: 1 @ $5.00 Labor = .3
30. R&I Box assy Labor = 2.5
31. Repl corrosion protection QTY: 1 @ $5.00 Labor .2
32. Subl hazardous waste disposal QTY: 1 @ $5.00
33. Rpr bench set-up & measure Labor = 2.0 F
34. Rpr Rough Pull for Diagnosis Labor = 2.0

Line 13: Davis Used Auto Parts in Tazewll TN.
Line 30: R&I Bed to Put in cab corner in.

TOTAL: 6474.04

HARRY'S BODY AND FENDER

1. repair r. fender labor = .5
2. refinish fender outside labor = 2.2
3. r/r step rail assembly 1 @ $539.70 Labor = 1.0
4. r/r R frt door shell 1 @ $1,589.3 Labor = 5.3
5. refinish rt front door outside Labor = 2.4
6. refinish rt front door jambs and interior Labor = 1.0
7. r/r R rear door shel 1 @ $1627.23 Labor = 5.5
8. refinish RT rear door outside Labor = 2.0
9. refinish RT rear add for jams & interior Labor = 1.0
10. remove/install bed assembly Labor = 2.5
11. repair Rt pickup bed side panel Labor = 3.0
12. refinish RT bed outer side panel Labor = 2.8
13. remove/install bed cover Labor = 1.0
14. remove install rear bumper assembly Labor = inc.
15. 2 wheel alignment $49.95
16. add'l opr frame/rack set up $2.00 Labor = 3.0
17. Add'l opr two tone Labor = 2.0
18. Add'l opr clear coat Labor = 2.7
19. repair rt rear cab corner Labor = 5.0
20. Add'l labor inner panel after pull Labor = 2.0
21. remove/replace tire $120.00 Labor = .4
22. Paint/Materials $470.60
23. Shop Materials $34.00
24. Hazardous waste disposal $5.00

Gross Total: $6,785.86


So, there you go guys. I think it's interesting to see how someone apparently relaying information to someone over the telephone can cause such a disparate change in the quote rate since Asheville Ford was the first place I went to for an estimate and apparently who she spoke with regarding getting a "firm offer" on the repairs. Obviously, she missed a good amount. The truck was sitting under a car port and I'm surprised she didn't want me to pull it out from under the car port to inspect it. She couldn't open the doors that much since it was parked next to my trailer. She actually had done the inspection before I even got home, but I offered to pull it out so she could look again.

Tell me what you all think!
Mike

 

I guess the photos might be deceiving because the cab corner looks repairable to me. It is interesting to see the difference in the quotes.

A complete used door as cheap as those quoted on the first estimate will probably not be in that good of shape. I am not sure of the pricing in your area but around here doors in that price range will generally have some pretty good damage that would need metal/filler work.

Was any of the glass or other components of the door damaged from the accident as far as you can tell? I need to look up the price of an OEM shell when i get back to work. It may be more cost effective to go with and OEM shell or door skin than to get a good used door.

If they do end up having to use a recycled door assembly then make sure they use a door off of a vehicle that is the same year model or newer then the vehicle you have.

There are a few R&I items that may be needed during the course of the repair. Make sure they charge for chipguard on the lower portions of the rocker if your truck has it. Looks like only one missed charging for the two tone. Its ok, the shop you take it to will supplement for that. I would ask for some prime and block time on the repair panels and color sand and buff time, unless it is stated that it is included per the procedure pages in the estimating system. Its good they are paying for an alignment. You dont typically see the ins company paying for an alignment if there was no wheel or suspension damage.

 

I have dealt with Erie before and to be honest they weren't the best to deal with. They are a smaller company and really shows in their adjusters. The second shop seems about right and the third quote is missing the running board. As far as the recycled door that is pretty cheap and will prob. need some type of repair. I think they could either get a better recycled door or even a aftermarket door. Chances of them going OEM is prob. going to be a long shot.

Don't know why they are buying a whole side in less there is a lot of damage we can't see--- "13. Repl LKQ RT dr, ctr plr & rkr +25% Qty: 1 @ $562.50 s Labor = 14.5 Paint 9.0"

They could get away with just the corner and putting it in. Unless it goes up higher then we can see. The alignment is nice to see, I agree not many put that in there.

 

As far as I can tell all of the components in the door (window glass, handles, regulators, etc.) all seem to be in tact. The first thing I did after the accident was try to cycle all the windows up and down a few times. They worked with no noise and the speed seemed as quick as it was before.

I think that part of the problem with the price of the recycled doors the insurance company quoted is that they were pricing for heritage doors. I actually saw a "heritage" edition yesterday and looked it over. The door design is different in that it isn't as square and the body lines are different running along the side. The '04 was the first year of the body style truck I have and as far as I know the Supercrew only came in the newer of the two body styles.

The damage to the cab really doesn't look all that bad, but once you get the doors open you can see some pretty good crumpling along the bottom door sill where there are a lot of complex bends that may be difficult to pound out. Both body shops said that they would check over any used component they received to ensure that it was salvageable.

I freaked out about making sure she put some type of alignment or something in because there was an odd driveline vibration when I drove it home. I don't know if the front tire was bumped off the bead because it won't hold air or if it had something to do with the body shifting on the frame or what but there is an odd vibration. The truck made it home and I can fill the front tire but it leaks out quick. The front tire was never actually hit in the accident but I figured maybe getting pushed sideways impacted the bead.

The guy at the second body shop I took the truck to tried calling around for a used door while I was sitting there and he absolutely couldn't find one. He had a lot of people asking him about the production date of the truck and apparently this truck was built early in '04. How that impacts the availability of used or new parts, I have no clue. I do know that apparently in the early 04 new body style there was some leaking in the front windshield area that smoked a lot of the body control modules. Maybe there were some subtle changes to the body design to correct that?

I'm making notes of everything that you guys are telling me I need to address with the insurance adjuster so hopefully she won't feel the need to try and nickle and dime me using my lack of knowledge to her advantage. I figure if I can hold my own with her in a conversation then she'll be less likely to try anything. When she was here drafting the estimate I was actually out in my garage cutting out my nova trunk floor pan to install a replacement. I don't know what I'm doing on that thing either but hopefully it showed her I did. I tried not to scratch my head too much.....

I'm thinking tomorrow they'll call with an offer for a check or tell me I'm authorized to take it in for repairs. As far as I know I still can't even do that. I'm now 7 days in on a rental and although the Impala has some get up to it, I'm really sick of the thing.

Mike

 

Tell them you didnt realize you were going to be out of your vehicle for this long and that you use your truck for work and need a comparable vehicle. I know Enterprise usually keeps a good amount of new f150s in the fleet down here.

 

I'm going to send the adjuster an email as soon as I get back to my office with the estimates and find out what they want to do in regards to the repairs so it can finally begin. The last that did the estimate was talking about cutting me a check got the damages which I'm not a fan of since I think it would be deemed a settlement in full.

 

As long as there is not some sort of statement on the check that says "by cashing/depositing this check you hereby release so and so insurance from any further liability on this claim", or something to that effect, you should be ok.

You can just hold on to the check until the job is complete and sign it over to the shop when you pick the vehicle up. Make sure if you have a leinholder that the check is not made out to you and the leinholder. If it is, you have to have the check endorsed by the leinholder. This usually involves sending the check to the leinholder and they hold the check until they are provided proof that the repairs are complete (usually a copy of the final estimate). At that point they will endorse the check and send it directly to the shop.

The easiest thing to do would be to have the insurance company pay the shop directly. That way you dont have to worry about keeping track of the check.

 

I got off the phone with Enterprise just a few minutes ago. Apparently, they're starting to get kind of nervous about being paid (which is odd since they have my credit card) because they still haven't heard anything from Erie. I attempted to get a hold of Erie earlier today by phone and email to no avail. In the email I attached both of my estimates. I called them again after my telephone call with Enterprise and was told that they can't reach their insured. I told them that Enterprise needs an authorization number to continue to charge the vehicle to which she responded with no response except that she'd try again to get a hold of her insured. She did say that the letters she's sent have come back and the numbers don't work or the voicemails are full. I informed her that while we were all standing around our wrecked vehicles her insured told me that he was in rehab here in Asheville and that he gave me the name of the place. I googled the number and provided it to her so perhaps she could at least get through to him through the half way house he's in.

I asked her if she received my estimates in the email I sent her and she said she had not. I told her those would be faxed to her tomorrow along with the accident report that she still apparently hasn't received. Someone said something about a ten day deadline for admitting or denying coverage. Is that ten business days or ten calendar days? What's the recourse in that situation? Sorry to have the thread dive off of the original point of damage estimate but now I feel the need to continuously update everyone....

Thanks all!
Mike

 

You need to make sure that the insurance has agreed to pay for the rental for the time being. If they dont pay the enterprise will bill your card for sure. Last thing you want to see is $500 in rental charges out of nowhere.

Did the insurance rep. tell you to go ahead and get into a rental vehicle? If they did then you need to get a rental reservation number ASAP. If the insurance company has not gotten ahold of the insured then that usually means the claim is still under investigation and liability has not been determined. If liability has not been determined and the vehicle is deemed drivable then they may try to get out of paying for the rental while the claim was still under investigation.

Your other option at this point would be to go through your insurance company so the repairs can be started right away. You would have to pay your deductible. Whe your insurance subrrogates with the other persons isurance company they should refund your deductible.

 

This is correct, the one thing that I would add is that if this is not a clear liability claim like it is chances are if they can't get a hold of their Insured they are going to deny the claim altogether. I would suggest contacting your Insurance carrier to take care of the damages. If you have rental on your policy they will take care of the rental up to your policy limits. There is no set day that they have to have the liability determined. So this could drag on for months. As far as taking the check, if any additional amounts are needed the shop will get in touch with the Ins. company for the payments. This means they have excepted liability and are going to cover the damages. Now this doesn't mean you can go with the most expensive estimate, they still have to reach an agreed price with the shop. Otherwise the check maybe a full payment without any additional payments, Meaning that you are cashing out on the damages. With you being the third party in this loss, they will only make the check to you.

 

I would also add, even if the vehicle is non-drivable, they can still deny the rental up to this time, Unlikely but they could, since you did not get authorization to get into one. They may tell you to pay the bill and submit it for review. They may then only pay a portion of the bill.

 

If there is a police report and it is obvious that your are not at fault along with the fact that you said they wanted to cut you a check pretty much leans towards them accepting liability. I hate to see situations like this. Someone wont/cant answer the phone so your claim sits in limbo. Now you are at the mercy of that person. I know police reports can take up to 2 weekd to obtain. Hopefully the incident is very clear cut and they will see the claim in favor of you.

At the very least if your truck is drivable and you can not obtain some type of documented authorization from the insurance company for payment of the rental I would return the rental and drive your truck. It does not take long to run up a big rental bill.

 

Time for another update.

Today, the insurance agent called and said that she finally spoke with her insured and "obviously we're accepting liability" and that I was approved to bring it in to be worked on. A few minutes later I got a call from the lady that did the estimate who again said I was approved and that she'd cut me a check for $3,600. I said I'd be bringing the truck to the Ford dealer for repairs and she could cut the check to them when she paid for the work. I then told her she needed to get square with the rental car company as they're wanting to know when they were going to get paid. She said she'd prefer just to write the check to me. I told her I didn't want to accept her check, that I had two different body shops do an estimate, one of which was the ford dealer and that the check wouldn't cover the damages. I also told her I was concerned that she was putting the incorrect doors on the vehicle. She said she'd call and work something out with the body shop and approved the work, but she'd be coming to see me regarding the check. I again told her not to cut a check to me, but to pay for the body work when I was done approving the vehicle repairs. She told me that it was their company policy and the law supported her in what she wanted to do. I asked her to cite the law to me so I could go look it up (I'm a lawyer, but as you guys can tell I do NOT handle insurance stuff). The phone conversation ended on that note.

Later on tonight, we took the truck down to the ford dealership and dropped it off. I had to put air in one of the tires as it won't hold any since the accident. When we left, all four tires were full. The truck had a hell of a vibration coming out of the driveline even with all the tires being even pressured, and something is clunking around underneath the truck. At the night drop off you put your keys in a bag and write the repair information on the bag. I wrote on the bag that not only was the body work to be done, but the shop wasn't to return the vehicle to me until the tire issue was repaired and the drive-line vibration issue was gone.

So, the only concern I have left is that the woman seemed so quick to jump on the "let me resolve the conflict between my estimate and the body shops estimate" over the phone. What happens when you have an estimate from the adjuster made in conjunction with the body shop and then you have an estimate from the body shop alone that is reconcilable? Was there a conversation about not having to do some things as I probably wouldn't notice? Something just seems to smell bad with that.

Looking forward to hearing the insight on the adjuster/body shop conversations that happen and what I may be looking forward to.

Thanks all! Hopefully, soon you'll be done being bothered with this.

Mike

 

Well what generally happens when an adjuster comes out to look at a vehicle is they come out take pictures and write an estimate, they then contact the shop of your choice and reach an agreed price with them. This is done by her sending her estimate over to them and over the phone change it up until an agreement is made between the two. Then a check is issued to the owner for the repairs. Now we generally issue payment directly to the Owner who is not insured with us as we owe them for the damages by law. Every now and then we will issue it to the shop but that doesn't happen often. I would ask the shop if they reached an agreed price with the adjuster before repairs start. You don't want to get going on repairs and have to deal with a long drawn out battle on how much they will pay. If the shop says they have go ahead with the repairs and you won't have to worry about a thing. If they haven't I would ask them to contact the adjuster to discuss it before repairs start. They should be able to reach an agreed price that will get what you want done. I would tell the shop what you want done, as far as OEM that might not happen but I would ask the shop to get the best door they can get so you don't have to worry about rust or any other problems, I would also ask if they offer a warranty. If they don't and won't work with you on the door, I would advise the adjuster that you want a OEM door as these doors are really prone to rust in the lower part and you want to know that it won't happen for a long time. Its a long shot but might work. Good luck on the repairs and keep us informed.